[Deck] 12 Post

[TimHarding]

My testing with Ugin got me thinking a lot more about Haven of the Spirit Dragon. In a Loam-based shell, you would be able to dredge into Ugin and recur him indefinitely (subject to graveyard hate). The problem with Loam, of course, is that it doesn't play nicely with Eldrazi graveyard triggers. The interaction seems powerful enough, however, that it's got me brewing. In essence, I ended up borrowing a lot of elements from Lands, although with recurrable finishers that take advantage of 12 Post's massive mana advantage. This is still a very rough draft, but I'd love some constructive criticism on how to make this work.


2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan

4 Mox Diamond
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
2 Intuition

1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
1 Academy Ruins
2 Tolaria West
3 Tranquil Thicket
1 Dark Depths
1 Riftstone Portal
4 Maze of Ith
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
3 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest


Sideboard

1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Flusterstorm
1 Sacred Ground
1 Vesuva
1 Bojuka Bog

This is soooooo dope! I'm testing this asap.

[Rock Lee]

Probably the most "deep end" build I've brewed sofar. Here is Dragonpost:

// Lands
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
3 [FUT] Grove of the Burnwillows
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [BD] Island (2)
1 [R] Volcanic Island
1 [R] Taiga
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [TSP] Forest (1)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Punishing Fire
4 [OD] Moment's Peace
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [CNS] Dack Fayden
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [BNG] Kiora, the Crashing Wave
4 [NE] Accumulated Knowledge
2 [DOT] Sarkhan Unbroken
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 [SOK] Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
SB: 3 [UL] Crop Rotation


no dragons were involved or harmed in the building of this deck.

Plenty of tuning to happen here. Fow could easily be sb'd with crop and 1-2 utility lands main'd. That is probably the better build, but I am enjoying testing this preboarded version.

[Barook]

Probably the most "deep end" build I've brewed sofar. Here is Dragonpost:

// Lands
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
3 [FUT] Grove of the Burnwillows
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [BD] Island (2)
1 [R] Volcanic Island
1 [R] Taiga
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [TSP] Forest (1)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Punishing Fire
4 [OD] Moment's Peace
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [CNS] Dack Fayden
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
2 [BNG] Kiora, the Crashing Wave
4 [NE] Accumulated Knowledge
2 [DOT] Sarkhan Unbroken
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 [SOK] Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas
SB: 3 [UL] Crop Rotation


no dragons were involved or harmed in the building of this deck.

Plenty of tuning to happen here. Fow could easily be sb'd with crop and 1-2 utility lands main'd. That is probably the better build, but I am enjoying testing this preboarded version.

Where's Intuition? I can fetch plenty of juicy combos. It seems like a natural fit. Be it AK, or multiple Moment's Peace for 4 turns of stalling or various combos.

I would include at least 1 Life from the Loam as Intuition target, alongside 1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon for inevitability.

[TimHarding]

Probably the most "deep end" build I've brewed sofar. Here is Dragonpost:

no dragons were involved or harmed in the building of this deck.

Plenty of tuning to happen here. Fow could easily be sb'd with crop and 1-2 utility lands main'd. That is probably the better build, but I am enjoying testing this preboarded version.

Boom! This is definitely pretty far off deep end lol. But, I see these spicy options as your way to achieve a similar game plan to what I've also arrived at recently: Safe, though potentially disadvantageous early control elements, followed by bombs. However, ideally those bombs can both restore advantage, AND pose a threat - because turns 1-2 is about not dying & 3-4-5 is about still not dying and something besides of the top of the deck needs to bring you there. Planeswalkers,by nature, fit the bill very well in this follow-up role.

For me I've accepted that Cruise meta is totally gone, and Legacy can be very diverse and broken - so FOW is too attractive and powerful to ignore. Losing early advantage and relying on resolving a Titan/Ugin (One of ~6 actual threats in popular lists lately) is not strong enough, especially if you need to also hedge against potential card advantage battles in MUs such as BUG. So, I've gotten back on the Trinket made plan to fulfill this role of recovery/Tutor-Threat. He is a little PW that is like 2U, put a 2/2 in & then tutor for defense (map,EE), advantage (top), or offense (map, candle). Very versatile and fills those same roles as the PWs available. Very synergistic with FOW. Blocks. Further, I've also been looking at PWs too, particularly Jace and Kiora, but I haven't had enough trials. DRS (damn another in that PW role haha) has also been testing super well.

[winglerw28]

// Planeswalkers
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [CNS] Dack Fayden
2 [BNG] Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 [DOT] Sarkhan Unbroken

Holy mother of planeswalkers, Batman! I feel as though not playing Jace, the Mind Sculptor is just silly once you've reached this level of mana intensity. He is stronger than all of those but Ugin for sure.

[winglerw28]

My testing with Ugin got me thinking a lot more about Haven of the Spirit Dragon. In a Loam-based shell, you would be able to dredge into Ugin and recur him indefinitely (subject to graveyard hate). The problem with Loam, of course, is that it doesn't play nicely with Eldrazi graveyard triggers. The interaction seems powerful enough, however, that it's got me brewing. In essence, I ended up borrowing a lot of elements from Lands, although with recurrable finishers that take advantage of 12 Post's massive mana advantage. This is still a very rough draft, but I'd love some constructive criticism on how to make this work.

Stop using your Jedi mind powers to read my mind! Been working on BUG-Post lists as of late and came up with a few new ways to deal with pesky Delver of Secrets while conveniently also dealing with True-Name Nemesis, Elves, and other one toughtness creatures. Turns out 3/7 flying hexproof creatures are difficult to handle.

// Planeswalkers (2)
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// Creatures (8)
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
1 Trinket Mage
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Primeval Titan

// Spells (19)
4 Life from the Loam
4 Exploration
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Intuition
3 Crop Rotation
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Candelabra of Tawnos

// "Spell"/Utility Lands (11)
3 Maze of Ith
1 Tolaria West
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Academy Ruins
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon

// Mana Producing Lands (20)
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Thespian's Stage
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Forest

// Sideboard (15)
3 Flusterstorm
3 Swan Song
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Seal of Primordium
2 Pithing Needle
1 Memory's Journey
2 Moment's Peace

[Philipp2293]

Sweet deck! Do you think Haven of the Spirit Dragon is worth it? Maybe you can get more value out of Cavern in it's place. But then again, Ugin piles for Intuiton sound really sweet :)

[maCHOOga]

@MaCHOOga
Interesting running maindeck Force without Treasure Cruise. Is 16 blue cards enough for Forces?

I like Force less without Treasure Cruise to make up for the card disadvantage or is there lots of combo in your meta? There is a decent amount of combo at my local store.

Guess you didn't like Fact or Fiction?

I <3 Fact or Fiction. My only issue with it is it can occasionally put you in super awkward situations. Basically it turns into a game of chicken.
For example, You're two piles are pile 1: brainstorm x2, fetchland, tropical island & pile 2: primetime.

You can untap and cast primetime, but if they have a Force, you loose.

You can take the hand of card advantage and vastly improve your card selection for the rest of the game.

I took the card advantage hand. I brain stormed, shuffled, brainstormed and never saw a threat. I lost that game.

@ RockLee & @ TomHarding
I like the idea of splashy planeswalkers, but isn't it stressing on the manabases? Kiora & Sarkhan are awesome, but it also requires 2x on-color lands. There's never a guarantee you will be able to cast them, right? Have you tried Innistrad Garruk? Other than not being able to pitch to FoW, he seems like he has game against delver decks.

[winglerw28]

Sweet deck! Do you think Haven of the Spirit Dragon is worth it? Maybe you can get more value out of Cavern in it's place. But then again, Ugin piles for Intuiton sound really sweet :)

I think it is important to have a way to Loam and get still back Ugin. That paired with Intuition and the ability to just repeatedly get back Ugin if it dies every other turn is pretty strong. If you add cycling lands or Horizon Canopy somewhere you can even make it every turn.

[prgmctan]

My testing with Ugin got me thinking a lot more about Haven of the Spirit Dragon. In a Loam-based shell, you would be able to dredge into Ugin and recur him indefinitely (subject to graveyard hate). The problem with Loam, of course, is that it doesn't play nicely with Eldrazi graveyard triggers. The interaction seems powerful enough, however, that it's got me brewing. In essence, I ended up borrowing a lot of elements from Lands, although with recurrable finishers that take advantage of 12 Post's massive mana advantage. This is still a very rough draft, but I'd love some constructive criticism on how to make this work.


2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan

4 Mox Diamond
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
2 Intuition

1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
1 Academy Ruins
2 Tolaria West
3 Tranquil Thicket
1 Dark Depths
1 Riftstone Portal
4 Maze of Ith
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
3 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest


Sideboard

1 Eye of Ugin
3 Pithing Needle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Flusterstorm
1 Sacred Ground
1 Vesuva
1 Bojuka Bog

This list looks sick. I think you want some number of crop rotation too.

[Mockingbird]

Probably the most "deep end" build I've brewed sofar. Here is Dragonpost:


2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [CNS] Dack Fayden
2 [BNG] Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 [DOT] Sarkhan Unbroken

Holy mother of planeswalkers, Batman! I feel as though not playing Jace, the Mind Sculptor is just silly once you've reached this level of mana intensity. He is stronger than all of those but Ugin for sure.

If you're going Superfriends and Cloudpost, I'm surprised there's no Karn Liberated because he's the precision scalpel of Superfriends, and I agree Wingler: Jace is Jace. Of course, there's also Tezzeret, Tamiyo, Ral Zarek, Garruk Wildspeaker, and Xenagos the Reveler which all have different considerations as well, but what you have is a strong core at least when it comes to walkers (although I'm not entirely sure about Kiora).


By the way, the run of the mill strategy for Superfriends is to ramp out Planeswalkers, cast Obliterate (or something similar), then win off the surviving planeswalkers. That might be a better path than Emrakul, which seems out of place with Eye of Ugin to be honest.

[apple713]

If you're going Superfriends and Cloudpost, I'm surprised there's no Karn Liberated because he's the precision scalpel of Superfriends, and I agree Wingler: Jace is Jace. Of course, there's also Tezzeret, Tamiyo, Ral Zarek, Garruk Wildspeaker, and Xenagos the Reveler which all have different considerations as well, but this is a strong core at least when it comes to walkers.


By the way, the run of the mill strategy for Superfriends is to ramp out Planeswalkers, cast Obliterate (or something similar), then win off the surviving planeswalkers. That might be a better path than Emrakul, which seems out of place with Eye of Ugin to be honest.

this deck is so far off the deep end i swear someone just suggested obliterate.... obliterate is a dead card most of the time especially with no reliable way to tutor for it. If you want to play planes walker ramp, i'd suggest a bunch of different builds that reflected someone thing more like nic fit. if you are using the locus lands the real benefit comes from the unstoppable force of eldrazi...

[TimHarding]

this deck is so far off the deep end i swear someone just suggested obliterate.... obliterate is a dead card most of the time especially with no reliable way to tutor for it. If you want to play planes walker ramp, i'd suggest a bunch of different builds that reflected someone thing more like nic fit. if you are using the locus lands the real benefit comes from the unstoppable force of eldrazi...

I agree lol this thread is starting to read like the nic fit one...

[Postman]

I can't take the last ~20 posts seriously, sorry ^^ Sure, there have to be some new ideas and innovations in order to improve the deck. But for me it's no longer TE / 12 Post (with 10 posts...).

[Monkey_Island]

With all those planewlakers around here I think a 1-off Contagion Engine could be funny. Scaling up PWs + killing annoying creatures (albeit slowly) seems worth testing...

[kingtk3]

I can see the last ~20 posts as preparation for april's fool ^_^

[winglerw28]

Sorry guys, guess we will go back to netdecking and never trying anything interesting or fun.

If you're trying to win for sure, build a deck that has a high win percentage and tournament results. I know I don't play post because I'm a huge spike.

[apple713]

Sorry guys, guess we will go back to netdecking and never trying anything interesting or fun.

If you're trying to win for sure, build a deck that has a high win percentage and tournament results. I know I don't play post because I'm a huge spike.

Im all for innovation but there cones a point when the deck is so differrnt its not really recognizable as its original. By all means innovate but keep in kind your suggestion may throw it into a different category. A deck is generally defined by its recognizability and its matchups. So When an experienced legacy player has trouble recognizing your deck and the matchups become considerably different it may be time to rebrand. Consider this. There are 3x seperate forums for what was once, and is still, recognized by most as 43 lands. 3x seperate threads for the same pos deck.. But whatever makes em happy right?

[winglerw28]

I think saying that the decks being created being drastically different from the core strategy of the "Turbo Eldrazi" plan is reasonable. Minor changes like going from 12 to 9-10 posts has been pretty standard, but splashes haven't.

A derivative deck has to start somewhere, however. Are we supposed to make a "I'm not sure what this is but want feedback from people who have no experience with post" thread? I'm totally fine moving to a new thread if enough people want it, but I dislike people jumping on the bandwagon of deriding a modified list simply because it is different. Coming in and saying that these lists look like a joke could come off as hostile towards new people trying to look at the deck - "I think we should focus more on the core strategy we had before, we are likely trying to be too cute with what we are doing" is a lot more useful and constructive than the hidden message of "This is unacceptable and totally different than what I expected and looks really bad!".

The post strategy is all about inevitability, resilience, ramp, and giant monsters/planeswalkers. Some of the lists might be wonky, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily a fundamentally different strategy.

Edit: For clarity, this isn't targeted at you specifically, nor am I saying that you are being unreasonable or rude or anything. I just wanted to push the point that we should have more meaningful reasoning when trying to show why we don't agree with any given post.

[AppendixG]

Has anyone tested Tower of the Magistrate as a Crop Rotatable way to deal with Batterskull and (to a lesser extent) other problematic equipment? Currently, I've added one to my sideboard that I trade out with Mikokoro.

I know that with Repeal, Batterskull isn't typically a huge problem but it never hurts to eke out every little advantage that you can.