[Deck] Team America (BUG Delver)

[meffeo]

No Goyf? This must be an April Fool, yes?! ;-)

Yes, it's a goyfless build. I'd like to play creatures that are undecayables and not *excessively* weak to gy hate.

The Golden Fang could easily enter at turn 3 or 4 and still remains a 4/5 after a RiP et similia (apply the same concept for the Angler). Obviously Tombstalker is a different story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

[Unassigned]

Recently "joined the dark side" with the recent decision to purchase a set of Goyfs to complete my Legacy collection.

I've ran the following list to cash at both Legacy events at GP Cleveland (Top 4 split Saturday, 8th on Sunday, picked up a free Volcanic Island for my troubles), and also have won the last two weeks at my LGS.

3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Stifle
2 Disfigure

Sideboard:

1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Murderous Cut
2 Divert
2 Flusterstorm
3 Thoughtseize


The only changes have been to the sideboard, where I've cut the Golgari Charm and Umezawa's Jitte for Toxic Deluge and Null Rod (metagame choices).

I've been a huge fan of Tasigur in the deck, despite not being very popular with some players. I feel that this inclusion walks the same line as the Discard vs Stifle debate. It's all about your play style and how you want to attack your individual matches.

Either way, thought I'd share.

[btm10]

Recently "joined the dark side" with the recent decision to purchase a set of Goyfs to complete my Legacy collection.

I've ran the following list to cash at both Legacy events at GP Cleveland (Top 4 split Saturday, 8th on Sunday, picked up a free Volcanic Island for my troubles), and also have won the last two weeks at my LGS.

3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Stifle
2 Disfigure

Sideboard:

1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Sylvan Library
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Murderous Cut
2 Divert
2 Flusterstorm
3 Thoughtseize


The only changes have been to the sideboard, where I've cut the Golgari Charm and Umezawa's Jitte for Toxic Deluge and Null Rod (metagame choices).

I've been a huge fan of Tasigur in the deck, despite not being very popular with some players. I feel that this inclusion walks the same line as the Discard vs Stifle debate. It's all about your play style and how you want to attack your individual matches.

Either way, thought I'd share.

If I were going to play Stifle, this is very close to the list I'd play. Tasigur definitely gives you the lategame that Liliana does in the discard version, and I suspect that you can very easily get rid of all the bad earlygame cards like Daze when he comes down. How has Murderous Cut been at dealing with things outside of Decay range? Is it markedly better than something like Go for the Throat, Victim of Night, or Ultimate Price?

Also, glad the Dark Side is treating you well.

[Unassigned]

If I were going to play Stifle, this is very close to the list I'd play. Tasigur definitely gives you the lategame that Liliana does in the discard version, and I suspect that you can very easily get rid of all the bad earlygame cards like Daze when he comes down. How has Murderous Cut been at dealing with things outside of Decay range? Is it markedly better than something like Go for the Throat, Victim of Night, or Ultimate Price?

Also, glad the Dark Side is treating you well.

Thanks Brendan (This is Adam btw ;) )

Yes, Wiley is pretty dead set against Tasigur, but I've been so in love with the card in Standard/Modern/Legacy that I added him without a second thought and haven't regretted it. There are certainly situations where he's bad, but he's been such a house that I can't justify changing him out aside for a few matches like Death & Taxes.

Murderous Cut has been very beneficial. In addition to controlling my graveyard, hitting opposing Tasigurs and beefier bodies outside of Decay range has been very helpful. I wouldn't change him out for ay of the cards you've mentioned, namely because I'm trying to stay as cheap as possible and it's nice that cut does not have the limitations on targets that others do.

[Brentane]

Alright. After a long and tireless search for the right "blue" deck, I've come to this secluded alley and stumbled upon this community to study under your tutelage of the dark arts.

In all seriousness, I cannot find the right "blue" deck for myself. I currently have D&T, Elves, and plan on building burn (maybe goblins instead) as well as building MUD. My problem with blue is, I want to use as many of the best blue spells in Legacy as I can and not get bored using them (for reference: brainstorm, ponder, force of will, and daze). I have an OmniTell deck with the four show and tell required, but the spells search for combo pieces, not threats so it bores me (I also don't get to play daze). I tried Merfolk but they have no use for brainstorm or ponder which kind of turns me off a little. I also tried Sneak & Show, but they are similar to OmniTell.

So I have come to this community to ask if this deck is more fun then the blue decks that I mentioned? (So is it more fun than an Islandwalking army or dropping Show and Tell?) If it is a fun deck to invest in, I am missing the goyfs and blue duals. Anyway I can build it without sacrificing much of it's power while collecting other pieces?

[Zodiac_Dragon]

Alright. After a long and tireless search for the right "blue" deck, I've come to this secluded alley and stumbled upon this community to study under your tutelage of the dark arts.

In all seriousness, I cannot find the right "blue" deck for myself. I currently have D&T, Elves, and plan on building burn (maybe goblins instead) as well as building MUD. My problem with blue is, I want to use as many of the best blue spells in Legacy as I can and not get bored using them (for reference: brainstorm, ponder, force of will, and daze). I have an OmniTell deck with the four show and tell required, but the spells search for combo pieces, not threats so it bores me (I also don't get to play daze). I tried Merfolk but they have no use for brainstorm or ponder which kind of turns me off a little. I also tried Sneak & Show, but they are similar to OmniTell.

So I have come to this community to ask if this deck is more fun then the blue decks that I mentioned? (So is it more fun than an Islandwalking army or dropping Show and Tell?) If it is a fun deck to invest in, I am missing the goyfs and blue duals. Anyway I can build it without sacrificing much of it's power while collecting other pieces?

I think it is just personal preference, which deck is fun and which is not. With this deck you have many cards to interact with the oppenent.

You NEED definitly 3-4 Gofys and 3 U-Seas (4 are better when you are on the blacker Build with Hmyne / Lily). In genereal: Hymne Build standard Manabase 4 U-Seas, 2 Bayou, 1 Trop, Stifle Build often has 3 U-Seas and 3 Trops.

You don't want to play any Basics in there.

I hope this may help you.

[Asthereal]

Alright. After a long and tireless search for the right "blue" deck, I've come to this secluded alley and stumbled upon this community to study under your tutelage of the dark arts.

In all seriousness, I cannot find the right "blue" deck for myself. I currently have D&T, Elves, and plan on building burn (maybe goblins instead) as well as building MUD. My problem with blue is, I want to use as many of the best blue spells in Legacy as I can and not get bored using them (for reference: brainstorm, ponder, force of will, and daze). I have an OmniTell deck with the four show and tell required, but the spells search for combo pieces, not threats so it bores me (I also don't get to play daze). I tried Merfolk but they have no use for brainstorm or ponder which kind of turns me off a little. I also tried Sneak & Show, but they are similar to OmniTell.

So I have come to this community to ask if this deck is more fun then the blue decks that I mentioned? (So is it more fun than an Islandwalking army or dropping Show and Tell?) If it is a fun deck to invest in, I am missing the goyfs and blue duals. Anyway I can build it without sacrificing much of it's power while collecting other pieces?

This deck is one of the most interactive blue decks you can play. Yes, it is great fun.
You still get some blow outs with Hymn to Tourach, but almost every game is a battle.
I would definitely recommend this as a blue deck to get into.

[Star|Scream]

I think it is just personal preference, which deck is fun and which is not. With this deck you have many cards to interact with the oppenent.

You NEED definitly 3-4 Gofys and 3 U-Seas (4 are better when you are on the blacker Build with Hmyne / Lily). In genereal: Hymne Build standard Manabase 4 U-Seas, 2 Bayou, 1 Trop, Stifle Build often has 3 U-Seas and 3 Trops.

You don't want to play any Basics in there.

I hope this may help you.

I had a question about this as well. I'm building TES which requires 2 Underground Seas. If I want to play that AND lend Team America to someone, could it function on just 2 Seas, 3 Trops, and a Bayou? could stifle work with that list?

[FoolofaTook]

BUG Tempo does have the problem that Disfigure and Dismember are the 1cc creature removal available to it and they both have significant drawbacks. Abrupt Decay is a great all purpose removal tool for the meta right now but it often doesn't happen fast enough on the draw. That's the primary thing holding BUG back from being the best blue shell list right now. Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares are just objectively better at removing early creatures than anything BUG Tempo has available.

It's a good trade-off though. If BUG had a removal spell with the overall value of bolts nobody would play anything else.

[KobeBryan]

BUG Tempo does have the problem that Disfigure and Dismember are the 1cc creature removal available to it and they both have significant drawbacks. Abrupt Decay is a great all purpose removal tool for the meta right now but it often doesn't happen fast enough on the draw. That's the primary thing holding BUG back from being the best blue shell list right now. Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares are just objectively better at removing early creatures than anything BUG Tempo has available.

It's a good trade-off though. If BUG had a removal spell with the overall value of bolts nobody would play anything else.

I think everyone would jump to DNT or elves...having BUG as 50% of the meta will be hell

[FoolofaTook]

I think everyone would jump to DNT or elves...having BUG as 50% of the meta will be hell

BUG can adapt to that kind of meta shift better than most lists. That it doesn't really like the D&T or Elves matchups is primarily because there are so many other things that have to be taken into account. If you can play three Dread of Night in your sideboard D&T becomes almost trivially easy. You can't do that in most metas. You'd also see more mainlist Golgari Charm in that type of meta.

The thing that keeps BUG from dominating at this point is the heavy reliance on two colors that are not blue and the utility/casting cost of the early removal. If either of those things were less aggravating than they currently are the list would be the best blue list.

[Asthereal]

BUG Tempo does have the problem that Disfigure and Dismember are the 1cc creature removal available to it and they both have significant drawbacks. Abrupt Decay is a great all purpose removal tool for the meta right now but it often doesn't happen fast enough on the draw. That's the primary thing holding BUG back from being the best blue shell list right now. Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares are just objectively better at removing early creatures than anything BUG Tempo has available.

It's a good trade-off though. If BUG had a removal spell with the overall value of bolts nobody would play anything else.

Your post contains absolutely no response to mine. Please remove the quoted bit.
EDIT: Thanks.

[btm10]

I had a question about this as well. I'm building TES which requires 2 Underground Seas. If I want to play that AND lend Team America to someone, could it function on just 2 Seas, 3 Trops, and a Bayou? could stifle work with that list?

I'd probably run another fetch or a Watery Grave before I added Bayou if you're going to be on the Stifle plan. Bayou is a necessary evil if you're on Hymn/Liliana/Tombstalker, but it's really bad when you want your first two lands to make UUBG.

[apon]

Hi. After a record of 6-1, i decided to ID last round of the MKM Rome legacy main event and finished 9th :(

Feel sad about the result but happy with the good performance of the deck.

I won to UW control, Deathblade, goblin stompy, dredge, miracles, UWR pyro and lost to elves.
My friend with the same 60 and only 4 changes to the sideboard made top 8.

Hymn to tourach was the MVP. I only played 1 copy the day before on the trial, and decided to change.


Maindeck
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ponder
2 Liliana of the Veil

Sideboard
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 pithing needle
3 Golgari Charm
2 Disfigure
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Dismember
1 Sylvan Library
3 Spell Pierce

[Manipulato]

Hi. After a record of 6-1, i decided to ID last round of the MKM Rome legacy main event and finished 9th :(

Feel sad about the result but happy with the good performance of the deck.

I won to UW control, Deathblade, goblin stompy, dredge, miracles, UWR pyro and lost to elves.
My friend with the same 60 and only 4 changes to the sideboard made top 8.

Hymn to tourach was the MVP. I only played 1 copy the day before on the trial, and decided to change.


Maindeck
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ponder
2 Liliana of the Veil

Sideboard
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 pithing needle
3 Golgari Charm
2 Disfigure
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Dismember
1 Sylvan Library
3 Spell Pierce

No love for Tombstalker instead of Tasigur? The rest is really standard classic TA which I also prefer. Congrats

[redesign1991]

I must admit that this looks like a really interesting deck to play. I've been wanting to play a delver deck in Legacy for quite some time now, but I've always been looking at UWR Delver since I own a playset of Stoneforges. Though lately I've been contemplating about selling those, mainly because I find the UWR Delver manabase quite expensive. Of course, this deck's manabase is also expensive, except for the fact that I'd still need 2 more U. Sea's and 1 more Bayou if I'd not go on the Stifle plan (from what I've been reading).

So let me ask, which version is better? Stifle or more discard focussed?

Still contemplating a bit, since a playset of Tarmogoyf isn't exactly cheap either.

Also, since I haven't been playing on a non-basic list yet (only played reanimator [and UW Stoneblade without duals and wastes] before in Legacy), how do you cope with blood moon? I just don't like to insta-lose to it. Running basics is a no-go?

[Manipulato]

I must admit that this looks like a really interesting deck to play. I've been wanting to play a delver deck in Legacy for quite some time now, but I've always been looking at UWR Delver since I own a playset of Stoneforges. Though lately I've been contemplating about selling those, mainly because I find the UWR Delver manabase quite expensive. Of course, this deck's manabase is also expensive, except for the fact that I'd still need 2 more U. Sea's and 1 more Bayou if I'd not go on the Stifle plan (from what I've been reading).

1.) So let me ask, which version is better? Stifle or more discard focussed?

2.) Still contemplating a bit, since a playset of Tarmogoyf isn't exactly cheap either.

3.) Also, since I haven't been playing on a non-basic list yet (only played reanimator [and UW Stoneblade without duals and wastes] before in Legacy), how do you cope with blood moon? I just don't like to insta-lose to it. Running basics is a no-go?

1. There is no directly better or worse...It depends on personal playstyle and preference. The stifle version is more a classic delver tempo strategy & the Hymb version is more a tap out sorcery speed version of the deck. Both have they´re pro´s & con`s.

2. Tarmogoyf is needed in both variants. So that point doesnt really matter...

3. Yes, playing basics in this deck is a no-go. We cant support basics with that low land count and cards like Daze or Hymn, Lili, Stalker etc....

Greetings

[apon]

No love for Tombstalker instead of Tasigur? The rest is really standard classic TA which I also prefer. Congrats

For me the possibilities for 1/2 solts in addition to delver, tarmo and deathrite are:
Taisgur is 4/5 for B5 : can be cast easily in turn 3. Disadvantage legendary and power. His ability is rarely used.
Hooting Mandrills is a 4/5 trample for G5 : could be better than tasigur
Gurmag Angler is 5/5 for B6 : costs 1 more than tasigur, and has no legendaty problem and no ability.
Tombstalker is a 5/5 flying for BB6. Once in play is the best creature, but is the slowest of them

BUG delver is still a tempo deck, that means, the soonest you put your beast, the more preasure your opponent will have.

I'm going to test Mandrils and Gurmag. Stalker seems to slow.

[Higgs]

Alright. After a long and tireless search for the right "blue" deck, I've come to this secluded alley and stumbled upon this community to study under your tutelage of the dark arts.

In all seriousness, I cannot find the right "blue" deck for myself. I currently have D&T, Elves, and plan on building burn (maybe goblins instead) as well as building MUD. My problem with blue is, I want to use as many of the best blue spells in Legacy as I can and not get bored using them (for reference: brainstorm, ponder, force of will, and daze). I have an OmniTell deck with the four show and tell required, but the spells search for combo pieces, not threats so it bores me (I also don't get to play daze). I tried Merfolk but they have no use for brainstorm or ponder which kind of turns me off a little. I also tried Sneak & Show, but they are similar to OmniTell.

So I have come to this community to ask if this deck is more fun then the blue decks that I mentioned? (So is it more fun than an Islandwalking army or dropping Show and Tell?) If it is a fun deck to invest in, I am missing the goyfs and blue duals. Anyway I can build it without sacrificing much of it's power while collecting other pieces?

Good luck on your search. I was on the same pursuit for years and after years of trial and error decided that no blue deck in Legacy fit the bill for what I'm looking for so I switched my FoWs to my Vintage deck and sleeved up Dark Rituals for my Legacy deck. My experience with Team America has been, that this is an aggro deck at the end of the day and despite the counterspells you are playing you don't really feel like a 'blue mage'. Plus I don't like losing to decks like Elves and D&T when I'm the one casting Brainstorms so... UWx decks feel more like blue decks to me but they always have a hard time against BUG colors, midrange and random stuff like 12-post, goblins, MUD etc. so there is really no perfect blue deck (disclaimer: This is my humble opinion.). I think you just have to play the deck and see if you enjoy how it plays against the format.

[Will_L]

Stifle is insane in the mirror and against any other Delver decks. Stifle obviously compliments Wasteland really well too

I like Stifle build more because it feels tighter and faster... I don't like needing/wanting BB on turn 2 for for Hymn and then trying to cast Decays and TNN/Clique... I just really like the 3sea/3trop/8fetch/4waste manabase. Plus if you draw Bayou as your only land in your opening hand... That can be pretty bad, horrible even without a DRS to go with it.

The Hymn/Lili build has stronger late game, but is that where we really wanna be anyway?