[Deck] Sneak and Show

[s&s]

This mu used to be and still is a grinding mu to some degree, scrupting a perfect hand first and then finding a chance to move. As I said above they can cast cunning wish responding to your drawing seven, fetching a trickbind or stifle to counter u.

This is why you draw 7, and see if they respond or not. If they try to fetch, you draw 7 again, so that is going to resolve and from there you have a 10 card hand, the cunning wish and your draw 7 on the stack, which is not unfavorable.

[GoblinZ]

This is why you draw 7, and see if they respond or not. If they try to fetch, you draw 7 again, so that is going to resolve and from there you have a 10 card hand, the cunning wish and your draw 7 on the stack, which is not unfavorable.

What if they have multiple copies of dtt, wish and counters? that would happen quite often because it is just their game plan.

Drawing seven is not as devastating as you imagine actually, u may draw a lot of dead cards, which may not put u in a better position compaired to their free DTT.

[pinkfrosting]

But drawing too many fatties or mana like petals could happen, in terms of consistency omnitel si obviously better.

I forgot where the hypergeometric distribution calculator I used last was, I will edit this if I find it, but last time I checked the chance of seeing 2 4-ofs in your opener is something like 15%. Sneak and show only runs 4 more mana sources than omnitell, but it runs 16 total combo pieces rather than 8. Yes, you can sometimes get a clunky draw with multiple fatties, but sneak and show is still statistically more consistent at getting a 2 card combo that puts something on the board. That something might not be as powerful as omniscience + cantrips, but it will happen faster and more often.

[GoblinZ]

I forgot where the hypergeometric distribution calculator I used last was, I will edit this if I find it, but last time I checked the chance of seeing 2 4-ofs in your opener is something like 15%. Sneak and show only runs 4 more mana sources than omnitell, but it runs 16 total combo pieces rather than 8. Yes, you can sometimes get a clunky draw with multiple fatties, but sneak and show is still statistically more consistent at getting a 2 card combo that puts something on the board. That something might not be as powerful as omniscience + cantrips, but it will happen faster and more often.

More cantrips make omnitel more consistent. No one denies the speed of sneakshow, and that is why I think there is still a reason to play sneakshow over omnitel. It seems that we just have different idea of consistency.

However I begin to worry about the omnitel mu.

[janluis1]

I have been advised to play this deck if I wanted to beat Omni. After reading these worlds I will pass I think

[GoblinZ]

I have been advised to play this deck if I wanted to beat Omni. After reading these worlds I will pass I think

If you are dedicated to beat omni, just play reanimator.

I think with some sideboard, we can still handle this mu.

[Ellomdian]

More cantrips make omnitel more consistent. No one denies the speed of sneakshow, and that is why I think there is still a reason to play sneakshow over omnitel. It seems that we just have different idea of consistency.

Not... really?

I gave someone quite an earful in the Kyoto discussion thread because they talked about how 'easy' it was to beat Omni - just counter their SnT's! It's quite a bit more complex than that, obviously, but in a vacuum, Omni almost certainly has to resolve a SnT to put an Omni into play, and have something to do after that, and they likely have the ability to win very quickly. SnS needs an Enabler and A Fatty, and typically an attack step. Omni's game plan has more distinct moving pieces, SnS has more durability.

Sure, cantrips serve to decrease variance, but cantripping into cantrips is only good if you just need to find one thing. You're not gaining card advantage, so you're still restricted to the 1 card per turn rule. SnS requires fewer cards in your hand to function, and it has more redundant cards. Not only is SnS faster (and this is debatable...) but it's much more resilient to disruption because it's a 2-card combo instead of 3.

That's honestly the thing I think people overlook when talking about Omni - it's a 3 card combo. The 3rd card often doesn't matter, specifically, but it has to be there.

[iGrok]

Not... really?

I gave someone quite an earful in the Kyoto discussion thread because they talked about how 'easy' it was to beat Omni - just counter their SnT's! It's quite a bit more complex than that, obviously, but in a vacuum, Omni almost certainly has to resolve a SnT to put an Omni into play, and have something to do after that, and they likely have the ability to win very quickly. SnS needs an Enabler and A Fatty, and typically an attack step. Omni's game plan has more distinct moving pieces, SnS has more durability.

Sure, cantrips serve to decrease variance, but cantripping into cantrips is only good if you just need to find one thing. You're not gaining card advantage, so you're still restricted to the 1 card per turn rule. SnS requires fewer cards in your hand to function, and it has more redundant cards. Not only is SnS faster (and this is debatable...) but it's much more resilient to disruption because it's a 2-card combo instead of 3.

That's honestly the thing I think people overlook when talking about Omni - it's a 3 card combo. The 3rd card often doesn't matter, specifically, but it has to be there.

Oh hey, that was me!

As someone playing counterspells (or Storm), SnS is a lot harder to beat because of its speed. I'll almost always be able to stop the first Show for Omni, but the Turn 2 SnS can really screw me. As control I often want to spend the first couple turns cantripping for counters, and as Storm sometimes I just don't have the turn 3 kill through your countermagic. I would imagine that Omni is also quite weak to KGrip, which will spike in popularity if Omni ever gets really out of hand, but as neither an Omni nor SnS player I wouldn't know for sure.

[Ellomdian]

Oh hey, that was me!

LOL, sorry iGrok, no offense. There is a lot more going on in the Omni matchup since they have variable levels of protection of their own.

But yeah, if you stop Show, that deck is just a pile of cantrips and uncastable Enchantments.

[iGrok]

LOL, sorry iGrok, no offense. There is a lot more going on in the Omni matchup since they have variable levels of protection of their own.

But yeah, if you stop Show, that deck is just a pile of cantrips and uncastable Enchantments.

Haha, none taken.

SnS is just a lot more terrifying because of its redundancy. SnS is more than twice as likely to have combo than Omni, even if you pretend that Omni is an A+B deck, and even if you "only" have Gisele, drawing 14 cards is pretty sweet.

[Macky984]

Haha, none taken.

SnS is just a lot more terrifying because of its redundancy. SnS is more than twice as likely to have combo than Omni, even if you pretend that Omni is an A+B deck, and even if you "only" have Gisele, drawing 14 cards is pretty sweet.

I've played both decks. I think that Omni actually has more redundancy because of it's ability to Wish and filter. Sns is more like to have "a" combo than Omni... but when Omni goes off it's a lot harder to stop. Pithing Needle or Revoker does nothing to Omni... which might not sound like a lot but it is.

[iGrok]

I've played both decks. I think that Omni actually has more redundancy because of it's ability to Wish and filter. Sns is more like to have "a" combo than Omni... but when Omni goes off it's a lot harder to stop. Pithing Needle or Revoker does nothing to Omni... which might not sound like a lot but it is.

Personally, more likely to have "a" combo is how I define redundancy. I do completely agree that Omni is better once it gets going.

[Macky984]

Personally, more likely to have "a" combo is how I define redundancy. I do completely agree that Omni is better once it gets going.

I 100% see your point. It's just that sometimes an opponent will slam down a Needle or Revoker and pick Sneak Attack and it immediately shuts off half your combo. That got frustrating after a while. Lol

[GoblinZ]

That's honestly the thing I think people overlook when talking about Omni - it's a 3 card combo. The 3rd card often doesn't matter, specifically, but it has to be there.

I actually doubt they are 3 card combo now, which they used to be(show+omni+ETI). To say so, I mean DTT not only just improves them in terms of raw power, but also functionally change their whole deck for they now totally forgo the crappy cards like dream hall and ETI and integrate everything into just "one" show and tell.

[Unassigned]

I actually doubt they are 3 card combo now, which they used to be(show+omni+ETI). To say so, I mean DTT not only just improves them in terms of raw power, but also functionally change their whole deck for they now totally forgo the crappy cards like dream hall and ETI and integrate everything into just "one" show and tell.

Agreed. MANY of the Omni builds are moving away from Enter the Infinite. They are relying more on low-mana cantrips, Cunning Wish, DTT and multiple Emrakuls to facilitate their win. Less dead cards in hand (Dream Halls/Enter the Infinite) means a more streamlined build. It's been showing up en mass in the IQ's lately and has been putting up better results lately.

[Ellomdian]

I actually doubt they are 3 card combo now, which they used to be(show+omni+ETI). To say so, I mean DTT not only just improves them in terms of raw power, but also functionally change their whole deck for they now totally forgo the crappy cards like dream hall and ETI and integrate everything into just "one" show and tell.

Agreed. MANY of the Omni builds are moving away from Enter the Infinite.

My point doesn't have anything to do with Enter specifically. It has to do with the fact that you need SOMETHING.

If your hand consists of a Show and Tell, and an Omniscience, and that's it, odds are that you're really not going to be doing anything impressive. Your combo is SnT + Omni + "Some Card", and that base is much easier to attack with disruption than SnT + Griseldaddy. If I Thoughtseize your hand, and I see Omni and SnT and that's it, and I bin your Show, your next draw step might as well be irrelevant. You effectively cannot go off (Barring Dig or Brainstorm shenanigans.) Cheating an Omni into play is great and powerful and sweet, but unless you actually cast something else, you are going to say Go, and your opponent is probably going to try to do something about it.

Omni requires more cards, period. It is more durable when it starts to go off, because it can play to many different lines, and the power of a Wish-board where you are likely casting spells for Free means that you can orchestrate much more complex lines of play. But Sneak and Show only needs 2 cards - something to cheat, and something to cheat into play. And it can run redundancy in those cards, so you need 2-of things you have 8-ofs. Omni needs 2-of things it runs 4-ofs.

[sherko7]

What happened to this deck?

[Lans89]

What happened to this deck?

Containment Priest >.<

+

Omnitell got better with DTT

However, I do believe that Sneaky Show is good vs Omnitell and Miracles, both the decks to beat atm!

[Ancestral]

Containment Priest >.<

+

Omnitell got better with DTT

However, I do believe that Sneaky Show is good vs Omnitell and Miracles, both the decks to beat atm!

Well omni tell it defenitly better than sneak and show againt miracles.
not sure abouthe the omni vs sneak tho

[GoblinZ]

Containment Priest >.<

+

Omnitell got better with DTT

However, I do believe that Sneaky Show is good vs Omnitell and Miracles, both the decks to beat atm!

I think anyone who is curious about the mu against Omnitel can watch the video by Julian Knab on youtube. Once SNT is resolved, every cantrip becomes a real threat...