[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[sawatarix]

@ Jamie: I have not decided yet. I really enjoyed Gitaxian Probe + Cabal Therapy + Empty the Warrens, this combination won me a couple of games during the GP Lille trial. But during GP Kyoto I cast Empty the Warrens only once against miracles and Ad Nauseam 3 times in total during the entire main event (13 rounds of swiss + quarter final + semi final -> 15 rounds, around 35 games).

[Reagens]

Just a question for the more experienced players.

1) Is slaughter games viable in a metagame where show and tell is the most important combo deck? I think it is (because it seals the game and makes your mana acceleration must counters) but perhaps you have a different opinion and I'd like to know why. I see it as a replacement to surgical/extirpate seeing that true graveyard decks are pretty rare.

2) Has anyone tested bound//determined? Especially against miracles. For me the pros and cons are (assuming it's in the insect slot):

pro

- makes all subsequent spells uncounterable even by permanents like chalice (hits a broader spectrum of threats)
- counterbalance decks do not have that much cc2 slots (counterbalance, the miser counterspell and 2/3 snapcaster mages)
- immune to removal (most people tend in to keep at least a singleton removal for us)

contra

- can be red blasted
- instant and thus open to flusterstorm
- slower (needs mana on the combo turn)

So in an undefined metagame xantid has a clear advantage over bound//determined but is this still true in a show and tell//miracles environment?
What other alternatives are available?

[CabalTherapy]

Just a question for the more experienced players.

1) Is slaughter games viable in a metagame where show and tell is the most important combo deck? I think it is (because it seals the game and makes your mana acceleration must counters) but perhaps you have a different opinion and I'd like to know why. I see it as a replacement to surgical/extirpate seeing that true graveyard decks are pretty rare.

I'll do that.

Slaughter Games is such a clunky card and useless because of our MU is already good against SnT based decks. We don't need more cards against them, except Wagner feeling the need to have Iona against OmniShit. If they don't counter Rituals they should be dead afterwards. Apparently, Surgical and Extirpate are not cards especially against 'graveyard decks'. We don't need cards against Dredge and Flusterstorm/Xantid is perfect against Reanimator. Surgical/Extirpate for me are there to mess around with the opponent's library and hand in first place. (Extirpate is by far the superior card here.)

2) Has anyone tested bound//determined? Especially against miracles. For me the pros and cons are (assuming it's in the insect slot):

pro

- makes all subsequent spells uncounterable even by permanents like chalice (hits a broader spectrum of threats)
- counterbalance decks do not have that much cc2 slots (counterbalance, the miser counterspell and 2/3 snapcaster mages)
- immune to removal (most people tend in to keep at least a singleton removal for us)

contra

- can be red blasted
- instant and thus open to flusterstorm
- slower (needs mana on the combo turn)

So in an undefined metagame xantid has a clear advantage over bound//determined but is this still true in a show and tell//miracles environment?
What other alternatives are available?

No, no one needs that card. It's worse than Xantid, worse than Autumn's Veil and useless in so many situations. It's slower, mana intese and gets countered anyway.

[sawatarix]

Here it is: My own Legacy Storm Deck Tech & Interview !!

Check it out, it's in japanese.
I might also translate it the next days if there is a high demand.

- Kai

http://www.hareruyamtg.com/article/s...ry/detail/1185

[Madsk]

Here it is: My own Legacy Storm Deck Tech & Interview !!

Check it out, it's in japanese.
I might also translate it the next days if there is a high demand.

- Kai

http://www.hareruyamtg.com/article/s...ry/detail/1185

Demand it :)

[Narcind]

A translation would be nice if you could find the time for it!

[hermans]

Thanks for all your replies on the hands. I've got 2 more situations.

Number 1:
You are on the play against an unknown opponent. Would you fetch for a basic or a dual and woud you lead with a Durres or with a Ponder?



Number 2:
On the draw against the mirror, would you keep or mull?




@ Kai: Please translate would be very nice to be able to read it.

[kkkant]

Thanks for all your replies on the hands. I've got 2 more situations.

Number 1:
You are on the play against an unknown opponent. Would you fetch for a basic or a dual and woud you lead with a Durres or with a Ponder?



Number 2:
On the draw against the mirror, would you keep or mull?




@ Kai: Please translate would be very nice to be able to read it.

1: I'll open with swamp and duress. Since i have another fetchland that can fetch me a basic island or dual. If the opponent plays wasteland and the game goes long i will need those mana sources, and if he doesnt and we need to go off quickly he have the petals for it.

2: I'll keep. Losing cards is a great deal in the mirror, and since we have 2 copies of infernal and a past in flames i think we could say we are pretty much resilent to opposing discard. Plus, gitaxian is always very valuable in this matches.

[Sloshthedark]

Just a question for the more experienced players.

1) Is slaughter games viable
2) Has anyone tested bound//determined?

1, seems really unnecessary
2, did not know this exists... kind of sweet at first sight, on second I can't imagine any classic situations when I'd like to cast it

Thanks for all your replies on the hands. I've got 2 more situations.

Number 1:
You are on the play against an unknown opponent. Would you fetch for a basic or a dual and woud you lead with a Durres or with a Ponder?

Number 2:
On the draw against the mirror, would you keep or mull?

1, tarn, pass ... Swamp-> duress is such a weak play
2, keep, what better hand would you like to mull into?

[Jin Gitaxias]

Slosh,

I dont understand your reasoning for turn 1 Tarn, pass. I would just fire off the ponder, both to find business/more cantrips and to play around discard spells from the opponent. Assuming my opponent does not know what I play either I would fetch a tropical and play ponder, both to put my opponent on the idea that I play RUG delver and to bait an eventual wasteland since I have another land and 2 petals anyway.

Hand 2 I would keep but I'm not excited. I would immediatly cast probe to see how much time I have and to find a discard spell.

[Lemnear]

Assuming my opponent does not know what I play either I would fetch a tropical and play ponder, both to put my opponent on the idea that I play RUG delver and to bait an eventual wasteland since I have another land and 2 petals anyway.

I'm not sure I've ever read a more unreasonable play in this thread. Throw away a manasource for nothing?

[mishima_kazuya]

Crack Scalding Tarn, find Underground Sea, cast Ponder, shuffle if you don't see Tutor, Ad Nauseam, Brainstorm or Ponder. Right?

On the play game 1 against an unknown opponent, I would want to assemble my combo before my opponent starts playing Counterbalances, Thalias or draws more disruption. Even if they have Wasteland, it is not the end of the world, as we still have a Polluted Delta.

[kkkant]

1, tarn, pass ... Swamp-> duress is such a weak play

Would you mind explaining the reason behind it? I understand that swamp into duress may not be the better way to go, but i dont really get why you rather pass the turn without pondering (which would be my second option). Is that to get information about whats playing your opponent without giving away any of yours and in the midtime getting a card?

If it is so, although it seems reasonable, if you were facing a combo matchup the fact that you didnt start with mana - duress would punish you in the future IMO.

[Narcind]

Hand 1: fetch basic island with tarn, cast ponder

Hand 2: easy keep

[Lemnear]

Crack Scalding Tarn, find Underground Sea, cast Ponder, shuffle if you don't see Tutor, Ad Nauseam, Brainstorm or Ponder. Right?

no? You have 4 initial mana sources here, so if you go to cast Ponder there is no reason to do this off a non-basic land against an unknown opponent. I don't know why you guys are to eager to expose yourself to Wateland or Bloodmoon without any compelling reason.

Edit: You also shuffle after the Ponder here unless you see TWO good cards.

[Madsk]

This is the good discusions.

Hand 1 i would play Scalding tarn go! If we cast ponder and find a tutor, they nick it with a discardspell there next turn if cast and we are a card deeper.

Hand 2 is a keep as well, if i do not draw a ritual in my first draw i would play ponder ( and vi can be in serius trouble if they nick it with a discardspell), and shuffle everything exept a discard and rituals i can copy with IT. I would keep gp until i got a discard or going off.

After i changed to Pascal's list from MKM Rome i played the deck alot slower than earlier and to unexpected sucsess

[Narcind]

Hand 1 i would play Scalding tarn go! If we cast ponder and find a tutor, they nick it with a discardspell there next turn if cast and we are a card deeper.

What. You can just put the tutor as the second card from the top and it won't get hit with discard?

[sawatarix]

Bois Bois there is a ton of misleading stuff going on here.

Cantrip>Discard during T1 and I'm not talking about Brainstorm.
Thats also one of the reason why Preordain is so important.

Hand 2 is an easy keep and you can either ponder immediately and try to get business or you can play Tarn and pass to see whats going on with your opponent. This gives you much more information and you get to know what to ponder for during T2.

Generally I would always play T1 ponder off basic Island. This deck doesn't want to trade resources at all so let's go with basics first.

[Jonathan Alexander]

Bois Bois there is a ton of misleading stuff going on here.
[...]
This deck doesn't want to trade resources at all so let's go with basics first.

Nice one.

[Madsk]

What. You can just put the tutor as the second card from the top and it won't get hit with discard?

Sure you could let it be hided at the top but your hand is still not a kill, you still need one more card