[BFZ]Battle for Zendikar spoilers thread

[Sibelius]

Could the cool new lands be the Future sight cycle ? Grove, Canopy etc.

[ReAnimator]

Allies care only about Allies.

RIIIIGGGHHHHHTTTT cause Hardened Scales totally wouldn't work with Allies at all! Nor any of the outlast guys that give everything with a counter an additional ability. Good point, nice chat.

[joven]

RIIIIGGGHHHHHTTTT cause Hardened Scales totally wouldn't work with Allies at all! Nor any of the outlast guys that give everything with a counter an additional ability. Good point, nice chat.

Allies trigger only off Allies, so you really want to max out on Ally creatures, so little space is left for other random synergies from other sets/blocks. And you need all those pesky Ally creatures that just come from one Set/Block.
And Ally is a stupid creature type anyway. What is an Ally? It's not a race and not a profession. It's a happenstance. Why is it a creature type??

[joven]

Fetchlands are great in Standard. I've got no idea what you're talking about here.

1. Fetchlands aren't real duallands. They are not able to permanently make mana of two different colors. Which is a problem for some decks.
2. There are no fetchable duallands in the Standard card pool and I'm pretty sure there won't be any soon.
3. There are much less opportunities to shuffle away unwanted stuff in Standard. (Only Courser comes to mind, which will rotate soon.)

Liliana of the Veil would've completely ruined what was already a not particularly great Standard. Everyone was tired of Monoblack Devotion dominating the format, and Liliana of the Veil would've been to Monoblack Devotion what Batterskull was to Caw-Blade.

That's what the banlist is for.

This makes sense from Marketing perspective.

Tick off people and make basic deckbuilding cards inaccessible. Great marketing!

[rufus]

Allies trigger only off Allies, so you really want to max out on Ally creatures, so little space is left for other random synergies from other sets/blocks. And you need all those pesky Ally creatures that just come from one Set/Block.

The same is largely true about slivers, but I don't see a lot of whining about them.

...What is a Ally? It's not a race and not a profession. It's a happenstance. Why is it a creature type??

That's true.

[Ace/Homebrew]

It's like a Rebel.

[Whitefaces]

It's like a Rebel.

Creature type - 'Fuck you mooooooom'

[jrsthethird]

Could the cool new lands be the Future sight cycle ? Grove, Canopy etc.

It wouldn't be the 'cycle'. It would be a cycle with one of those lands. Like Graven Cairns in Shadowmoor, for example.

I think a River of Tears cycle would make some interesting decisions with the enemy pain lands and fetches around.

[Lord Seth]

1. Fetchlands aren't real dual lands.

Uh... yes they are.

They are not able to permanently make mana of two different colors.

You still get your pick of two colors. You might not be able to change it afterwards, but it does mean you get the choice.

Which is a problem for some decks.

As is having to take more damage from painlands than from fetchlands. It's a tradeoff.

2. There are no fetchable duallands in the Standard card pool and I'm pretty sure there won't be any soon.

So? You said they weren't good in Standard. They are good. They just aren't as amazing as they are in the nonrotating formats. It's like how Treasure Cruise is good in Standard but not as bonkers powerful as it was in Legacy.

3. There are much less opportunities to shuffle away unwanted stuff in Standard. (Only Courser comes to mind, which will rotate soon.)

See my note above.

That's what the banlist is for.

Having to ban cards in Standard is always a huge loss to publicity. Sometimes, in the case of a monstrous screw-up, it's unavoidable, but it's something they really, really want to avoid.

Tick off people and make basic deckbuilding cards inaccessible. Great marketing!

Tick people off and make a 1-deck format. Great marketing!

It wouldn't be the 'cycle'. It would be a cycle with one of those lands. Like Graven Cairns in Shadowmoor, for example.

I think a River of Tears cycle would make some interesting decisions with the enemy pain lands and fetches around.

I feel the big problem with a River of Tears cycle is it feels like you have to make it a 20-card cycle for it to be even. For example, in addition to River of Tears, you'd want a one that gives you Black mana normally and Blue mana if you played a land.

I mean, I guess they could have it be a 10-card cycle, but it feels lacking because of the way it doesn't put the two colors on "equal" footing like every single other dual land has.

[TsumiBand]

Creature type - 'Fuck you mooooooom'

aaaaaaaaaaaaand sigged

[ReAnimator]

So either Joven is a troll, or just really really stupid, it's probably in everyone's best interest to just ignore him from now on.

[jrsthethird]

I feel the big problem with a River of Tears cycle is it feels like you have to make it a 20-card cycle for it to be even. For example, in addition to River of Tears, you'd want a one that gives you Black mana normally and Blue mana if you played a land.

I mean, I guess they could have it be a 10-card cycle, but it feels lacking because of the way it doesn't put the two colors on "equal" footing like every single other dual land has.

I don't think that's a huge issue. I like it because it harkens back to nostalgia from two different blocks; Future Sight for the reprint, and original Zendikar for the "landfall". Although, since it's "played a land" and not Landfall, it doesn't work exactly how they'd like.

Perhaps...they could redo them with Landfall and basic land types. i.e.

Island of Darknes
Land - Island
(T: Add ; reminder text for the noobs)
Landfall - If a land entered the battlefield under your control this turn, this becomes a Swamp until end of turn.

OR

Landfall - If a land entered the battlefield under your control this turn, this produces instead of until end of turn.

Anything similar makes decisions interesting in standard, and doesn't necessarily require an equal distribution. Just as long as each color pair is represented in the same fashion; each ally pair changes to the one on the left, or each enemy pair changes to the one that's only 2 away. Two bonuses: anything with Landfall on the card pairs interestingly with Khans fetches for 3 months, in addition to Evolving Wilds and the like, and second, this is a different space to play with the idea of fetchable duals.

After fleshing this out, I doubt that River of Tears will ever be completed, but rather a starting point for a cool cycle sometime soon or down the road.

[joven]

The same is largely true about slivers, but I don't see a lot of whining about them.

I hate Slivers. I can whine about them. They're overpowered and uncreative and boring.

So either Joven is a troll, or just really really stupid, it's probably in everyone's best interest to just ignore him from now on.

Be nice, I'm just stating my opinions.

[Dark Ritual]

I hate Slivers. I can whine about them. They're overpowered and uncreative and boring.



Be nice, I'm just stating my opinions.

Slivers are overpowered you heard it here first.

Fetchlands are functionally identical to dual lands as long as their activated ability is on the stack or they're in play and you're at more than 1 life. Unless of course you're implying that you have no targets for the fetchland in the deck or just one option and not the other (like having just islands in deck but no swamps for a polluted delta.) Just so happens that there's a rumor that there are fetchable duals in BFZ whether it's true or not we have yet to see conclusively, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were. Every once in a while fetchable nonbasics are printed last time they did so was shadowmoor/8 years ago or so.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Some competitive option of lands that aren't fetches I think would be great for the game because I think fetches have a strategic edge to them that a regular land cycle simply doesn't have . the game would be more interesting if you could play a land mana base that wasn't fetches but was different.

a land you could play either face up as 1 land type or face down as another would be really cool to me or whatever I mean two sided lands. Maybe you'd be able to fetch them but they'd only tap for 1 colour out of the two.

[Dice_Box]

I get the feeling the Lands will likely be the Enemy Man lands.

[Richard Cheese]

I get the feeling the Lands will likely be the Enemy Man lands.

- first strike, deathtouch
- double strike
- prowess
- scroll thief
- something something graveyard?

[ESG]

Some competitive option of lands that aren't fetches I think would be great for the game because I think fetches have a strategic edge to them that a regular land cycle simply doesn't have . the game would be more interesting if you could play a land mana base that wasn't fetches but was different.

There was a time before fetches, in the days before Legacy was a format ...

People played more duals, mainly. Painlands were pretty common. City of Brass saw a lot more play. Wasteland wasn't as playable because tempo decks lacked early pressure. Tarmogoyf was the best thing that ever happened to Wasteland.

If you enjoy formats without fetches, Standard is often without them. I hear that's changing, though. R&D used to be less in favor of color fixing than they are now.

[rufus]

...

If you enjoy formats without fetches, Standard is often without them. I hear that's changing, though. R&D used to be less in favor of color fixing than they are now.

Color fixing lands sell packs.

[GenghisTom]

Looks like Avenger of Zendikar is back, therefore Landfall is also back.

EDIT: Actually I take this back - Avenger is just in the Duel Decks with new art. Not confirmed for BFZ...