Speaking of BUG delver, whats good to take out against them?Originally Posted by Rikter
My current plan is to bring in 2 revoker (to name DRS), 1 trinisphere (up to 4) and 1 ratchet bomb and take out 4 lodestone golems. does this sound reasonable?
has anyone tried something like this approach?
i have used a few super strong 1 drops instead of using chalice of the void. pithing needle names wasteland, and you hopefully ramp fast and go a traditional forgemaster approach. coercive portal is there to beat 1 for 1 answer-type decks that arent INSANELY fast where the extra draw wouldnt help. sometimes landing even 1 portal can win in my experience.
// Lands
4 [RLM] Vesuva
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
4 [GTC] Thespian's Stage
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [RLM] Ancient Tomb
// Creatures
3 [PRE] Wurmcoil Engine
4 [SOM] Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 [UD] Metalworker
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [MBS] Blightsteel Colossus
1 [ARC] Sundering Titan
// Spells
4 [CNS] Coercive Portal
4 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [M10] Pithing Needle
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
1 [MBS] Spine of Ish Sah
1 [M14] Trading Post
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 4 [M15] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
SB: 1 [ROE] All Is Dust
SB: 4 [NPH] Spellskite
SB: 1 [UL] Defense Grid
SB: 1 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [DDD] Faerie Macabre
i honestly wonder if i even need the forgemaster's in here. i could probably just get away with using more solid creatures.
I board against BUG like this. In: 1x wurmcoil engine, 1x coercive portal, 1x crucible of worlds, 1x ugin, 1x steel hellkite, 1x batterskull, 1x trinisphere. Out: 4x chalice of the void, 1x platinum emperion, 1x staff of domination, 1x lodestone golem. . . BUG has a hard time dealing with wurmcoil engines. Chalice of the void is bad here, vs abrubt decay, and all BUG's focus on 2 drops. Just bring in the extra card draw, and drop threats. You'll outrun them, long before they kill you with deathrite shaman.
Would holding out for a chalice on 2 be any good? interesting that you chose to board out platinum emperion, do they have any way of answering it
@suntzu: if you cut the forgemasters, you're probably better off morphing into eldrazi post full on.
Lodestone golem NEVER comes out of the deck. I take out the 4x trinispheres, adding 2 revoker for drs/Lilly/jace and some combination of ratchet bomb and dismember.
Chalice is a card I only take out in the mirror, on 1 it shuts off typically a third of their deck, which seems fine.
you would keep chalice in despite the fact that they can easily AD it? Im a bit confused at how the 2 pieces of advice i received have been completely opposite..bring in trinisphere and take out chalice vs keep in chalice and bring out all trinispheres.
Trading a Chalice for an Abrupt Decay is not a bad trade for you at all. It's basically just breaking even on tempo and cards on both sides.
And if that Chalice soaks up a Decay, that's one less Decay they have for your Metalworker or Trinisphere.
Hi thanks for chiming in. Are you advocating that both trinisphere and chalice should stay in? I'm still looking for things to remove so I can bring in my revokers/ratchet/etc haha.
Much like MGB said, soaking up the decay is fine, forcing them to spend a turn decaying it is also fine...our late game plan is better, so keeping them off Tarmogoyf for an extra turn can be a huge swing. Besides, chalice on 1 may keep them from digging for the decay in the first place.
I would not take out emperion personally, they don't deal with it well at all, basically their potential answers are Lilly, which is still conditional, if they even play her, or Dismember + something else, also not a given.
I take out trinisphere vs them, and have never missed it.
Alright then, I can accept that :) Thanks again for the quick replies sir.
I for some reason was thinking vs shardless bug instead of delver. Ya, the other dude is right, take out trinisphere's over chalice. Bug delver has more 1 drops, so it I worth keeping them in and forcing them to decay them. Against any form of tempo deck, usually chalice for 1 or not at all. Especially since chalice gets decayed when set on any number.
Great! Thanks for the clarification :)
The deck you're looking for is 12-post, my friend... Check the forums for some lists and ideas.
So, i've been toying around with my MUD list in preparation for the Sunday Legacy portion of SCG Cincinnati. And i'm stuck on what to use for my last slot in the main, and a bit torn on sideboard. So, i figured, why not consult other MUD enthusiasts.
Main-
4x ancient tomb
4x cloudpost
4x glimmerpost
4x wasteland
3x city of traitors
3x cavern of souls
2x vesuva
4x lodestone golem
4x metalworker
4x kuldotha forgemaster
3x wurmcoil engine
1x steel hellkite
1x sundering titan
1x platinum emperion
1x blightsteel colossus
4x chalice of the void
4x grim monolith
3x trinisphere
1x staff of domination
1x lightning greaves
1x spine of ish sah
1x staff of nin
1x ugin, the spirit dragon
1x coercive portal (undecided) (considering: 2nd lightning greaves, 2nd steel hellkite, or leaving it coercive portal)
Board
1x wurmcoil
1x crucible of worlds
1x trinisphere
1x batterskull
1x spine of ish sah
1x ugin, the spirit dragon
2x phyrexian revoker
2x pithing needle
2x thorn of amethyst
2x tormod's crypt (strongly considering removing 1 or both for more thorn of amethyst)
1x steel hellkite (undecided) (considering: coercive portal if removed from the main, 3rd thorn of amethyst, ratchet bomb, 2nd steel hellkite, etc)
I keep changing my mind over and over again on what to do, but i keep coming back to this base list. Any suggestions, with valid reasoning?
I am new to the Forum thanks to L10, but I have been playing MUD for a bit and like his reasoning on leaving out the posts, but I can't say it's right for everyone. What I can say though is playing less than four of each sol land couldn't possibly be right. I've been playing two Ugin in my main and have loved him, He pulls you back up when you're behind which I am sure you know from your singleton, another card that has been very impressive and will certainly help your lands matchup is a maindeck Crucible of Worlds.
I hadn't played with Portal but I intend on giving it a try at some point. Tormod's Crypt has it's uses vs Reanimator and Lands, though I wouldn't hold out on using it vs lands they have Krosan grips and my foolishness cost me a game when I could have exiled his yard with a loam in it.
Grixis Pyromancer has been rising in popularity and True name nemesis can be very problematic for this deck so I would suggest trying a Contagion Engine in the board. If you are not a fan of that tech you could always go with the Classic Ratchet Bomb which IMO is a must for the board in the current meta. Other cards to consider are Orbs of Warding, and Karn Liberated. I played vs Charbelcher combo round 1 of the invitational last weekend and in g3 turn two Orbs of Warding on the play after turn 1 chalice on 1 he was not pleased and Karn is useful vs Lands, and any deck that brings in Null Rod.
The board I am currently playing (with two Crucible main)
1 Karn Liberated Vs Lands, Miracles and BUG delver, also it's good vs any deck you expect to play Grindy Games vs.
1 Orbs of Warding Vs Burn, and all sorts of combo decks, we naturally have a good matchup vs these decks but I like it vs Grixis Delver as well it has additional value vs BG pox decks.
3 Ratchet Bomb This card comes in against almost everything all the time but more specifically it's good vs Delver.
2 Tormod's Crypt Reanimator and lands is why this is here I've also played vs Dredge and this was a great tool along with Ensnaring Bridge
2 Ensnaring Bridge Also vs Reanimator and dredge good vs the occasional Sneak and Show deck as well I bring these in vs lands as well.
1 Spine of Ish Sah This card is a fine catch all for the same reasons Karn is good, it also has merit against Omni Show.
2 Pithing Needle Wasteland Decks are hard to beat and this card helps, this is why I chose these over Revokers. These come in vs Miracles as well since they can't be swords or terminused away.
1 Contagion Engine This is good vs the Young Pyromancer decks and useful vs merfolk and any deck with True-Name Nemesis.
1 Masticore !!I know it seems crazy but it's been useful vs Young Pyromancer, Infect, and Death and Taxes people have pointed out that Contagion Clasp is better in this slot for those decks but as it stands I've enjoyed the look on peoples faces when I play Masticore ;p
1 Duplicant This is the card I've been swaying on it's good vs reanimator and sneak and show decks I guess. The only cool thing I've done with it is exile a tarmogoyf haha.
Hope any of this helped and hopefully I hadn't broken any sacred forums rules this is my first post here or pretty much anywhere haha be sure to let us know how the tournament goes.
@BlackhawkX9: I would consider the 2nd Steel Hellkite as last. Hellkite is very vulnerable against decks you would want to use it in, having Needle, Revoker, or Null Rod most of the time. I'm biased to Greaves for more explosive openings, but that's just me.
For SB, I vote for Bomb. As for Crypt, I have 2 Crypts on my list cuz Reanimator is twice the thing it is in my meta. I would have one Thorn otherwise.
Hi InWaking, good to see you finally post! It was nice meeting you!
Oh totally. I absolutely agree. My playstyle is much more aggro than midrange.I am new to the Forum thanks to L10, but I have been playing MUD for a bit and like his reasoning on leaving out the posts, but I can't say it's right for everyone.
Against Belcher, I'd definitely go for Chalice at 0. It counters LED, Petal, and Chrome Mox, which are arguably scarier than Probe, Rite of Flame, and Tinder Wall.Charbelcher combo round 1 of the invitational last weekend and in g3 turn two Orbs of Warding on the play after turn 1 chalice on 1 he was not pleased
I completely forgot about this card. Thanks!1 Orbs of Warding Vs Burn, and all sorts of combo decks, we naturally have a good matchup vs these decks but I like it vs Grixis Delver as well it has additional value vs BG pox decks.
I have been using Razormane Masticore myself for a while. It is actually better against Grixis since it tears Gurmag Anger a new one, and they can't chump block + bolt to kill Razormane either thanks to first strike.1 Masticore !!I know it seems crazy but it's been useful vs Young Pyromancer, Infect, and Death and Taxes people have pointed out that Contagion Clasp is better in this slot for those decks but as it stands I've enjoyed the look on peoples faces when I play Masticore ;p
@BlackHawkX9
I'd go with the second Greaves. It let's you have more broken plays.
I am debating whether or not to bring this to the next IQ.
Hangerback Stax
//Mana (24)
4x Wasteland
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Great Furnace
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Mox Opal
2x Mox Diamond
//Ramp (8)
4x Metalworker
4x Grim Monolith
//Creature (12)
4x Hangarback Walker
4x Arcbound Ravager
2x Triskelion
2x Scuttling Doom Engine
//Stax (16)
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere
3x Smokestack
3x Daretti, Scrap Savant
3x Crucible of Worlds
Sideboard
2 Contagion Engine (Goes well with Hangerback, Trike, and Ravager)
~
I kind of want to fit in Cavern of Souls since Metalworker, Hangerback, Trike, and SDE are all Constructs.
Last edited by L10; 09-04-2015 at 09:54 AM.
I'd like to do another sideboard check with you guys
This time its against the 2 forms of grixis (delver and control)
So my plan is:
Grixis delver
In: 1 trinisphere (up to 4), 1 ratchet bomb, 2 revoker, 1 ugin (up to 3)
Out: 1 karn (down to 0) 4 lodestone golem
revoker targets: DRS/dack fayden
Grixis control
In: 1 needle, 2 revoker, 1 ugin, 1 ratchet bomb, 1 wasteland (up to 4), 1 crucible (from 0)
out: 1 platinum (not that useful?) 4 lodeestone golem, 2 grim monolith (acceleration not key here?)
critiques welcome! Disclaimer: I haven't been faring very well with these boarding decisions...
You're playing almost the same list as I did in Lille. I'd recommend to keep the coercive in the main, since you'll probably have some grindy matchups with miracles, stoneblade, death & taxes, etc.
I'd go for 3x thorn and 1x ratchet bomb in side. This way you could fetch both ratchet bomb/tormod crypt with Forgemaster in dire need. Shouldn't happen very often though. But it's happened to me when I drew an unfortunate Platinum
Thorn seems the way to go with all the Omniscience players running around. And it's useful against storm and burn too, which are almost always present.
I'd change one of the needles for revoker too. Since chalice can prevent you're needle sometimes. Best to reduce these chances somewhat I guess.
Seems like a very decent list, will you let us know how it performed?
Good luck!
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. And yes, I planned on reporting my results from this weekend. I'll be playing the legacy challenge on Saturday, and the legacy IQ Sunday. . I'm gonna stick with the portal main, as I do seem to have alot of grindy matchups in my area. And the sideboard flex apot I'll run as a 3rd thorn.
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