I'm definitely going to try it. There's something to be said for EOT kill spell to bait counters before going for a real threat, though I don't see single-card threats as being the main problem for us right now. Also notable that Counterbalance effectively can't stop it.Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
I've been thinking about a GB build with Illness in the Ranks/Virulent Plague to permanently shut down Mentor, Pyromancer, Thopter-Sword, and Empty the Warrens. Haven't thought much about what else to use with black though. Beseech the Queen? It finds everything Trinket Mage could but also lands and occasionally bigger stuff.
a.k.a. Eddy Viscosity
Can we make Sire of Stagnation work?
http://mythicspoiler.com/bfz/cards/s...tagnation.html
My initial instinct is no because cards generally aren't that good when they rely on opponents to go right, but that is a tempting effect.
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
I tested a BG build for a brief period of time. I found that pernicious deed hit anything and everything that ever hit the board. Hitting my own pithing needles was rather sketchy though. It certainly gives us some great options for sweeper effects and discard spells. Not sure how great it is though. Illness definitely seems good for the matches with mentor handle monk tokens. You do always have a bog that you can tutor in order to cast it. So it probably isn't terrible if you had to throw a bayou or Usea in order to cast it.
Hello! I watched your games and I was very entertained. I wanted to ask how many Krosan Grips you run, since it seems like the best answer to Aluren if it's showing up a lot where you play. I currently play four copies in the sideboard since I'm convinced it's the only truly reliable way to defeat Omnitell (to a lesser extent Wipe Away is as well). At first I was very irked to have to include four copies, but the more I think about it, the Grips give us a lot of solid answers to random junk in Legacy as well as previously very difficult matchups like the aforementioned Aluren, MUD, Food Chain when it was a thing, etc. They are also great answers to scary things like Blood Moon Back to Basics (I got beat by this in Merfolk, a deck making a comeback as of late) and as a bonus they further wreck Miracles, as Tim said earlier. Split second has now become so relevant; I would consider maxing out this card.
I used to be a nonbeliever in running Force in this deck, but once I first tried them in the sideboard, I never looked back. They really shine in the combo matchups that don't have countermagic of their own, namely Storm and Elves. The latter shows up often at my local meta, and having them to stop a Glimpse/GSZ/Natural Order is the only way I feel like I have a fighting chance. Storm requires more setup including Top and having a counter on top of the deck, but once you have that down, the matchup is very winnable, much more so than Elves. I looked up some of your lists on tcdecks and saw that you've been stomping for a while with this deck (very nice!) but I noticed your recent lists have three Tops instead of four. Do you consider four to be too many? I think it is one of the most powerful cards in our deck in almost any matchup, not the least of which is when you need to hide counters. The discard defense alone is a reason you always want to see at least one. Also, I love Needle as well!
About Mentor, I've never really had trouble dealing with him. Repeal is one of the cards I still run that I like to use against him. I know the masses have rendered Repeal obsolete, but situations like these will make you wish you hadn't abandoned it. The Mentor's three casting cost is pretty expensive for the decks wanting to cast him, so they will usually spend their entire turn just casting him. Having Repeal at the ready effectively Time Walks them, just like the old days when you would do so to a Confidant or a Goyf. One thing that I always liked about Repeal compared to Wipe Away was its ability to be countered. Many times I would play a Repeal in order to bait out a counterspell. If they countered it, then a truly backbreaking spell like Show and Tell or Primeval Titan was much more likely to resolve. And if you're running four Show and Tells like you should (Rock's list did, the eternal weekend list did, top lists usually do), then you should have no shortage of powerful spells to follow up with. At least your Wipe Away can hold him off for a turn, and Trickbind can mitigate the token making. Fight power with power and just go over the top of those monks!
Ditching Tabernacle seems like a bad idea now with Grixis Pyromancer everywhere. One sideboard slot seems like a small price to pay for a powerful land that we can easily access.
Good luck and I hope you get featured on many more matches! I like watching this deck in action whenever possible!
I didn't know it was ever played together with the locus lands. I think the color commitment would be too high, plus we don't want to be relying on creatures too early in the game and turn on our opponent's creature removal.
Re: Beating Monastery Mentor
Tabernacle does a lot of work here. More than I even expected. I don't know if it's still up on the Meadery Twitch archives I linked to a few days ago, but the finals of the tournament I won last weekend show me curb stomping Monastery Mentor in 2. Tabernacle played a big part by tying up my opponent's mana and keeping the game manageable until I could wipe the board.
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Tabernacle does a whole lot of work against mentor indeed. Otherwise, I say bring back O-Stone. Or Elephant Grass!
Against 4c Pyromancer and Elves I've been trying Silent Arbiter. It's out of bolt range. Against Mentor it's more vulnerable to swords but nonetheless an obstacle. Not enough data so far but it looks respectable. Searchable with eye too.
Terminus solves that problem too.
Those decks don't play Teeg, so it should send all the monks back to their respective dojo.
Lol ^^
And yeah w two problems being swarm and omni, the white slash is looking better and better: Terminus, Mage, Cannonist, Teeg...
Spoiled:
Bane of Bala Ged.
Annihilator 2, to exile.
CMC 7, making it a 1 mana improvement over Artisan of Kozilek or Ulamogs Crusher.
For Visual reference.
I just saw that too. The issue I have with it is that I don't play Eldrazi for their annihilators... well, I do, but it's not as high on the list as some make out. Cast triggers is what I look at when considering Eldrazi. And as an aside, I do miss the grave triggers. I had good looping Kozilek with eye (I forget why I had to do that instead of curbstomping with Emrakul, but the memory is there). For 7 mana, it looks like something to test... watch out for all the hate out there.
"Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind."
I wanted to make a note that modern tron, is somewhat a similar type deck. Before BFZ rotates in, a typical list runs
12 threats (6 creatures, 6 planes-walkers)
20 lands
4 sweepers O stone + 4 pyroclasm
12 tutors sylvan, map, stirrings
8 chromatic sphere
I realize modern is a different, slower format and post probably relies more on colored mana, but couldn't a similar calculus work?
4 titan
emrakul
koz
ula
ula II
ugin
4 Cloud
4 Glimmer
4 Vesuva
Eye
karakas
bog
tabernacle
6 forest
4 ostone
2 all is dust
4 map
4 stirring
4 sylvan scry
3 pithing needle
3 candel
3 crop
Seems closest to the booze-list. Biggest difference being 8 fewer lands in exchange for tutors. To me it seems the Murata list was always very top deck strong, and most of my latest tries have devolved away from that. I've been thinking for awhile that post is threat-lite. 7 creatures just not being enough. I'd like to see the new Ulamog in this mix anyway.
Last edited by Ponders; 09-20-2015 at 05:11 AM.
The nice part about being a tad bit land heavy is because we have crop rotation which kills off a land to find our utility lands or our post lands and put them directly into play. If it gets countered we are behind a land drop now. Having more lands increases the chances that we don't just lose as a result. Mana can be tight as is because of our utility lands that don't produce mana. Having the extra search would be nice, though we don't want to be overly reliant on it and get blown out in an aggressive game because our mana is tied up in searching for more land. Tron also gets away with it because they 8 eggs which help them cycle through their deck to find the land they need and the threats to cast with that land. Tron also doesn't have wasteland to worry about.
Top 8'd the Black Lotus event with 100+ yesterday. Succumbing to Rich Shay's Grixis list while my deck faltered hard (two mulls, sub-par draws, zero relics), which counts my first game and match losses against Grixis once running heavy Relic's. Here's my list:
// Lands
2 [10E] Island (3)
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [M15] Forest (3)
// Creatures
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M12] Primeval Titan
2 [SOM] Platinum Emperion
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
// Spells
4 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 2 [DS] Trinisphere
Matchups were grixisx2, omni (Loss), W/R bloodmoon, Belcherx2, Burn (ID).
There is ghost quarter. I'm not sure having extra lands prevents the auto-lose when most matches are over within 4 turns anyway.
The biggest difficulty I see is that you're trying to play 4x Primeval Titan in this list. One of the reasons that I've stayed away from Titan is that I simply couldn't reliably support 4GG, especially in the early game. While my build is nominally monogreen, the green is really more of a splash -- primarily for Ancient Stirrings and Crop Rotation. I rarely want to play more than one Forest unless truly necessary, frequently keep all-colorless hands, and regularly Crop Rotation away my only green source. Even with the full 4x Candelabras that I run, I've found that Titan was stranded in my hand far more often than I was comfortable with -- and that's even with a higher Forest count than you have here.
As far as Sylvan Scrying goes, it is definitely a powerful card. I've run it myself from time to time, and I regularly consider swapping out my SDTs for Sylvan Scrying. That said, it can also be slow. And you'll need more green sources for it to be consistent.
Personally, I think that being threat-light is one of the major benefits of playing Post. With the ability to easily tutor for your threats via Eye of Ugin (or dig deep with Ancient Stirrings), you can get away with devoting a minimum number of slots to just a few extremely high-impact and resilient threats, which leaves you a lot of room for toolbox cards, removal, and card selection with which to find them.
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I've tried your deck, maybe not extensively. I found myself getting Jaced out or even spot removal with councils judgement was enough to shut me down.
Wow, just another Top8! Congrats! List looks solid, but one question: Ugin SB, for what Matchups?
Ugin is for any fair matchup, or when I'm siding out titans/shows. Mostly I'm pre-boarding relics, so ugin comes in when you would expect it to be good, which isn't always, but often.
Is this vs Miracles, I assume? If so, your first priority in the matchup is simply to find Eye of Ugin. Unless they're running a Mentor build, resolving Expedition Map to find Eye should win you the game by itself well over 95% of the time.
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