[Deck] Aggro Loam

[Seraphix]

...

My sideboard was packing some more unconvential choices, sporting both Garruk + Ajani and an Engineered Plague next to a Phyrexian Revoker. I cutted down Choke and Slaughter Games to one, too.

This deck definetly is the real deal right now!

Revoker is the fucking shit.

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[*]In slight connection with the first question, what are some good alternative finishers? Must be something more than a big dumb beater (no shitty Thrun suggestions). Shouldn't be overly dependent on the graveyard (like Scavenging Ooze is). Being green for Green Sun's Zenith would be nice, but isn't mandatory.

This is again in the interest of being able to close games in a greater variety of ways. Qasali Pridemage makes for an amazing Watchwolf, but he's pretty inclined to die, so it's usually not enough. Garruk Relentless seems to have the best shot, but I'm looking for mainboard and sideboard suggestions.

[*]I'm back to having Boil in the sideboard. Which is a clear indication that I've run out of ideas. For reference, I'm perfectly happy with most of my sideboard. Boil and Oblivion Ring are just the cards that stand out as slackers.

Sigarda or Titania are the only big-ass creatures that seem viable to me. Thrun just doesn't pack enough punch. I've never played with Titania but Sigarda just destroys certain decks.

For PWs Garruk Relentless looks like the best overall, but I don't like how soft he is to Vendilion Clique. I'm tempted to go deep with pet cards and jam Elspeth or Gideon Jura.

Smh at the Boil though...

[Warden]

I'm needy. Been playing okay on Cockatrice, but catch myself misplaying. Advice on any of these...

1) Am I crazy to question even running Thoughtseize in the SB? I'm considering straight bears as the "anti combo". TS is not coming in against aggro-control stuff like Delver or BUG. Bears are also "better" as the game goes long, whereas thoughtseize just hedges you against turn 0/1/2.
2) With 'Dig gone, how do folks feel about Choke? Part of me thinks Choke is a necessary evil. But light testing is making me feel 1 Choke may be enough.
3) What do you cut from the main against UWr SFM control decks? UWb?
4) What's the weakness to exploit against Mentor Miracles? Faced this the other day and an active Jace propelled them to move so friggin fast. This is not the miracles deck of yesterday. Clearly I did something wrong
5) You're on the draw, meaning 8 cards during your turn 1. Opponent led with [blue fetch] and passes. You have access to Land (1)+ Mox D (2, 3 to pitch). Assuming you had Loam / Chalice / Confidant / Library, what's the priority play? I'm under the impression you set up Chalice more than anything.

[bakofried]

1.) Thoughtseize hedges you against t1's that don't have a Mox. Yes, it's dead weight otherwise, but that ability is really important in my testing.
2.) Ironically, I like Choke and other lock pieces more with Dig gone. Yes, it will be relevant less often now, but with the rise of BUG, more impactful.
3.) No idea. Haven't tested it.
4.) Sandbag Decay for Mentor. Pfire is unreliable in my experience.
5.) Bait with Loam to protect against Daze. You'll get 1-2 (probably 2) lands back. T2 if they force it you just played Hymn. Congrats. I generally don't mind getting Forced, but Daze is a shitty feeling.

[apocolyps6]

1) I've been playing this deck for ~3 years and have never been tempted to play Thoughtseize. Maybe if there is a rise in belcher/oops/etc. Even against storm I find that I can consistently mull to either chalice or mox + live card.
2) Choke was one of the better ways to interact with Omni. Now, I think it is fine as a 1of. It still situationally wrecks people and more situationally wins games.
5) Not sure what's up with those numbers, but Chalice is the highest upside play. They might have an answer, but the upside is so high. Either you 1-for-1, chalice gets downgraded to a Hymn to Tourach or Recoil, or you 20-for-1 them. If it gets answered your hand is strong enough to just continue playing magic. If your hand was weaker it might make sense to try to sneak past counters by waiting a bit. It also matters which lands these are. Wasteland or fetch land give you more options for a turn 2 play, etc

[RhoxWarMonk]

I'm needy. Been playing okay on Cockatrice, but catch myself misplaying. Advice on any of these...

1) Am I crazy to question even running Thoughtseize in the SB? I'm considering straight bears as the "anti combo". TS is not coming in against aggro-control stuff like Delver or BUG. Bears are also "better" as the game goes long, whereas thoughtseize just hedges you against turn 0/1/2.
2) With 'Dig gone, how do folks feel about Choke? Part of me thinks Choke is a necessary evil. But light testing is making me feel 1 Choke may be enough.
3) What do you cut from the main against UWr SFM control decks? UWb?
4) What's the weakness to exploit against Mentor Miracles? Faced this the other day and an active Jace propelled them to move so friggin fast. This is not the miracles deck of yesterday. Clearly I did something wrong
5) You're on the draw, meaning 8 cards during your turn 1. Opponent led with [blue fetch] and passes. You have access to Land (1)+ Mox D (2, 3 to pitch). Assuming you had Loam / Chalice / Confidant / Library, what's the priority play? I'm under the impression you set up Chalice more than anything.

1) Not crazy at all, personal preference. You can run anywhere from 0-2 IMO, I actually play 2 because I like really Thoughtseize. There's a lot of combo decks in my area, so I find it's pretty helpful in that regard but be sure not to bring it in against everything. It isn't meant for that and learning when to sideboard with it is pretty important if you choose to run it. That said, it's far from required and lots of people choose to skip it entirely.
2) I love Choke but again, not mandatory. I just find it wins games outright in some cases, so I have been playing 1 in the board for a while and recently started testing with 2. I'm not sure which is the right number but lots of people skip it as well. There's a ton of SB options for this deck and only 15 slots, so not everything will make the cut. Honestly a lot is going to come down to personal preference, though a good few cards tend to be repeated across most decklists (leylines, Charms, Thalia to name a few that come to mind)
3) Honestly no idea, don't see it often enough
4) As mentioned, Abrupt Decay on their mentor is pretty solid. I wouldn't trust anything else to actually get through on a Miracles board. You can potentially clean up tokens with Golgari Charm as well.
5) Entirely dependent on how much you want to play around Daze. Both bakofried and apocoyps6 are correct in that the Chalice play is absolutely crushing against most decks but being Dazed out sucks. I'm pretty aggressive and go by "if they have it, they have it" gameplan a lot of the time that early in the game, so i'd probably play the Chalice turn 1 and if it sticks, yay you win! :)

[Pilhas]

Hey guys, how is it going?

Was a great tournament(for Johannes at least), Was able to see a couple of matches from him and the man play flawlessly.

Friday played the trial for legacy which went a bit better than the actual tournament, went 4-2 losing to the mirror(Johannes) and a 4C Delver.
One must say that Garruk is a freaking beast in grinding matchup. Definitely won the game for Johannes in the mirror.

My tournament went horribly losing R1 to Rock Depths(the one who won agains Johannes in the Top8) and 2nd game just massively punted against elves. After controlling the game I ended up discarding containment priest instead of GSZ when I knew he had 2 GSZ in hand. Massive punts I say.

[rlesko]

5) You're on the draw, meaning 8 cards during your turn 1. Opponent led with [blue fetch] and passes. You have access to Land (1)+ Mox D (2, 3 to pitch). Assuming you had Loam / Chalice / Confidant / Library, what's the
priority play? I'm under the impression you set up Chalice more than anything.

I don't chalice here. They can cast Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, or Brainstorm into Daze / FoW (if they don't have it already). I go Library or Bob here.

[iamajellydonut]

Daze

Dazed

Daze

I don't have much time to respond to anything else (got your PM, warden), but I do want to point out that getting Dazed is basically best case scenario against any deck. Daze is a tempo play. It's only really relevant when there's some variant of "pressure" on the board. If they Daze your Chalice with nothing on the board, it's the exact opposite of tempo. Them Dazing on turn one with an empty board means they didn't have a turn one play and probably won't be able to present a relevant threat for another two turns. It's almost going into "free Wasteland" territory except it's more of a Karoo.

That being said, the proper play in almost all cases is to slam the turn one Chalice. For two reasons.

One is that you shouldn't be afraid to burn the Chalice. Its effectiveness dips every turn it's not on the board, you can easily win without it, and the rest of the shit in your hand basically means that you can dominate the board if you can keep them off-tilt. And making them respond to a turn one Chalice is a surefire way is a surefire way of insuring that you are in control. The only play they could possibly make that wouldn't leave you with a net gain outside of untapping for an Abrupt Decay (which would make them tap out for the following turn) is Spell Pierce. A card that's normally at best a two-of. Daze, as stated above, would almost entirely negate their benefit of going first. Brainstorm->Force of Will means you just made them burn a Brainstorm and made them two-for-one themselves. Spell Snare just isn't relevant. No matter how they choose to play it, chances are that you'll be left with a very distinct advantage.

The other reason for slamming Chaice first is that a Polluted Delta could represent anything. Including ANT or Sneak&Show or Reanimator. Ending the game with a Chalice of the Void in your hand could leave you with a truly awful taste in your mouth.

[Nocley]

I also just slam the chalice here. The only time I don't play around Daze on a T1 Chalice is when I feel like I don't like any of my T2 plays, in which case I Probably just leave a fetch up and pass, with the ability to push it through Daze next turn. Spell Pierce/Snare aren't played enough to really be worth it.

Also, with my SB discussion the other day, I feel very good with a 1 Choke 1 TS 1 Slaughter Games SB, it feels well rounded against most of the combo decks, but I feel like I'm not doing much against Delver, which honestly I'm pretty fine with because our MD is already great. Just switch out a few GSZ targets for Thalias and the Choke and I'm very content.

[bakofried]

I hadn't considered which fetch they opened with. In that case, if I have reason to believe I'm in the combo MU, yes, I would slam the chalice.

[rlesko]

Stuff

I will admit you changed my mind. Against the fair decks we can win without chalice. Its the fast combo match ups where we need to try to get chalice into play ASAP, and they are less adept at stopping it.

[Warden]

Thanks a ton for the feedback guys!
Jelly your PM mailbox is full :/

[iamajellydonut]

Jelly your PM mailbox is full :/

D:

Sorry. Should be good now.

[Tvox]

What would people say about playing an illness in the ranks in SB against mentor? Doesn't stop the main proponent, but at least gives you a hedge against the tokens.

[mariobross]

Hello everyone I wanted to ask for help against the side VS Delver decks (Delver BUG, 4Cdelver, Grixys, canadian etc.)

my current side is this:

1/2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Slaughter Games
2/1 Choke
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Golgari Charm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Leyline of the Void

the main is the classic list with 4 decay,

thanks to everyone for the help

[CantDecide]

I just hate the feeling when I loam away a creature that I needed

EDIT: What about a singleton worm harvest?

This is the precise reason i use volrath's stronghold.

[willydoo]

Is there anything to be done to get a chalice on one turn one more consistently?

Or any two mana play for that matter?

[pocari79]

Went to a GPT for GP SeaTac yesterday. It was a 5 rounder and I played almost the same deck as Johannes except I had +1 Leyline of the Void, -1 Ajani Vengeant in the sideboard as there's a lot of dark depths decks in our meta. I went 3-0-2 and we split top 8, the deck felt super strong. I was thinking about having +1 Mortuary Mire, -1 Barren Moor in the maindeck but just decided that there just wasn't enough creatures to make it worth it even though we can search it up with a knight.

I have been having quite a bit of issues with dark depth decks recently as there's been more and more of them around in my meta. I was thinking maybe Ensnaring Bridge might be the right hate card we're looking for considering we can't use any of the usual 1cc answers. Does anybody else have other suggestions?

[apocolyps6]

Is there anything to be done to get a chalice on one turn one more consistently?

Or any two mana play for that matter?

In terms of gameplay, I generally don't keep hands where my first turn is just "land, go" unless the hand is strong enough for other reasons. That's one easy way to have more turn 1 plays.

In term of deck building, I've tried 1x chrome mox before. The card almost always felt bad. Without going super deep into why it is a bad card for us, we aren't a stompy deck. We are primarily interested in playing a fair/midrange game.

I've also tried 1x ancient tomb. There is surprisingly little that the land does for us outside of the T1 chalice. It makes zenith better, and is nice to fetch off of knight sometimes, but generally the card does not pull it's weight.

Edit: You could also try Elvish Spirit Guide, but I don't imagine it being better than a mulligan.

Ensnaring Bridge?

Karakas (and by extension knight/zenith) is out best answer mainboard, Maze of ith being the second. That's 8ish cards. Not counting the wastelands. What's happening to make you want more stuff? By "dark depth decks" do you mean Lands or something like Maritocrasy?

[pocari79]

Karakas (and by extension knight/zenith) is out best answer mainboard, Maze of ith being the second. That's 8ish cards. Not counting the wastelands. What's happening to make you want more stuff? By "dark depth decks" do you mean Lands or something like Maritocrasy?

I just find that whenever I play against lands, they have so much time to setup that they can out wasteland you or just port the karakas/maze down and then make a 20/20 and just win. Plus you can't really win the grindy game with them either if they have a manabond or exploration in play as they'll just make more land drops than you. Maybe my lands opponents are just out drawing me but I feel very helpless against a naturally drawn dark depths and stage.

there's a bunch of R/G Combo and some BG hexmage, living wish, dark depths decks in my meta.