[OGW] Oath of the Gatewatch spoilers thread

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

I think it's one of those things where it ends up being a much bigger issue in limited than constructed formats.

I'd be surprised if Wizards toned down the manlands because of Limited. In my experience (~30 drafts), Awakening a manland is a high-risk, high-reward play. A 5/6, or larger, lifelink Shambling Vents is capable of brutal swings in the life total difference, but Awaken strips away the resilience to most forms of removal that manlands are valued for. Sure, they'll do dirty things if they aren't met with an answer (of which there are plenty at Common), but the same can be said of so many cards in Limited. Bombs have always existed in Limited.

I think the power shrivel had more to do with Constructed formats, especially Standard. WotC has, for better or worse, been pushing for a Standard format in which efficient threats are numerous and comprehensive removal is either expensive or virtually nonexistent in certain decks. Powerful manlands would just be another difficult to counter threat alongside Rhinos, Hangarbacks, Ojutais, Wingmate Rocs, Gideons, and whatnot—difficult threats that could be a bit too ubiquitous given their mana-producing roles.

What disappointed me about this batch of manlands wasn't the power level, though, it's the lack of interesting designs. Four out of five of the BFZ manlands are extremely close to the RTR/GTC Keyrune cycle when you look at their animated forms, only the U/R representatives of the cycles having divergent designs. Just slap a keyword common to both colors on the creature form and call it good...lazy. I wanted to see more designs in the vein of Raging Ravine, Celestial Colonnade, and Lavaclaw Reaches (not just about power, folks)...stuff that feels unique and fun to build with.

Aaaaand enough about manlands, thoughts on Oath of Ashaya and Last Word 2: Electric Surge-a-loo:

-Oath of Nissa is yet another Green cantrip/dig-spell in the vein of Ancient Stirrings, Seek the Wilds, Gather the Pack, Kruphix's Insight, Commune with the Gods and Lead the Stampede. I like these designs a lot, as they mandate certain deckbuilding considerations and don't play well en masse (they can't chain into each other a la Blue cantrips/selection). Like its forebearers, Oath of Nissa is not good in Legacy—it's a shitty Mirri's Guile—but it certainly portends of interesting future designs.

-Overwhelming Denial is okay, I guess. When hardcast, it's better than Last Word, but very few decks, even in EDH, want that effect. It's Surge cost will be restricted, in most cases, to a couple scenarios:

1. When trying to protect a combo/play, in which case free countermagic, Flusterstorm, and even something like Spell Pierce is probably a better choice.

2. When digging for an answer with a cantrip or draw spell in which case it becomes an uncounterable Counterspell. Nice, I guess, but I can't see where any deck would rather have something cheaper like the examples in scenario number one.

Maybe it will be good at breaking control mirrors in Standard via winning counter wars, I dunno, but it looks underwhelming to me.

[Dice_Box]

If the flavour text is true, I want to know who summoned Phelddagrif.

The Manlands really suck. The G/B one will see Modern play but that R/U one... ouch. And it is more complex than most cards that are made today. It dies to a bolt regardless and I know I am going to get into a fight over that.

[rufus]

...

-Overwhelming Denial is okay, I guess. When hardcast, it's better than Last Word, but very few decks, even in EDH, want that effect. It's Surge cost will be restricted, in most cases, to a couple scenarios:

..

It seems like it could be a good card for control mirrors - strong in counter wars or in the late game when you want to counter Terminus. Probably a sideboard card at best in legacy though.

[Ace/Homebrew]

If the flavour text is true, I want to know who summoned Phelddagrif.

Yes, I wrote the flavor text. We do this on one or two cards a set now to discourage other sites (coughMythicspoilercough) from stealing the mockups.

source

S'funny how a conditionally better Counterspell is just a worse Counterspell.

[Cire]

I'm slightly miffed that the Green Landlord does exactly the same thing as the Red one except gives vigilance instead of trample. Like I know that vigilance on a manland changes a lot, but they could have at least changed the P/T of the elementals or something. . . .

[rufus]

It's way too janky for legacy, but there's a bad combo with Wake the Dead and a suitable creature pile that includes Sifter of Souls.

[Barook]

I'm slightly miffed that the Green Landlord does exactly the same thing as the Red one except gives vigilance instead of trample. Like I know that vigilance on a manland changes a lot, but they could have at least changed the P/T of the elementals or something. . . .

I'd expect first strike for white, flying for blue and lifelink/deathtouch for black. It's an uncommon cycle, so meh.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Boring day for spoilers, it seems.



Gavin Verhey also acted like nobody saw Kozilek's Return weeks ago.

[GundamGuy]

Boring day for spoilers, it seems.



Gavin Verhey also acted like nobody saw Kozilek's Return weeks ago.

Oath of Gideon is an intresting card... not a card that I see making waves in legacy, but it is intresting.

[Barook]

Oath of Gideon might not be Legacy-material, but it's still a decent card. I like how it's on-curve and buffs BFZ Gideon to the point where you could ult immediately have him survive to pump out more tokens.

[Tylert]

Just by curiosity, what if you have doubling season and oath of gideon in play? How would the effect apply? First on the battlefield applied first?

[from Cairo]

Oath of Gideon making a couple dorks that in turn can protect a Planeswalker the following turn is pretty synergistic. I assume the wording works on the transform walkers too? If so it's cool for curving Jace, VP into Oath of Gideon into another 'walker.

[thefringthing]

Transform cards go to exile and then enter the battlefield again back-face up when they transform, so this does work with transform planeswalkers.

[rufus]

Oath of Gideon making a couple dorks that in turn can protect a Planeswalker the following turn is pretty synergistic. I assume the wording works on the transform walkers too? If so it's cool for curving Jace, VP into Oath of Gideon into another 'walker.

It works with flip walkers.

I doubt it's legacy material. Talking in terms of standard: It also makes makes two sidekicks for Kitheon. Flip Jace and Ob Nixils get an extra use of their minus ability from it.

There's also immediate ults with Tezzeret (but not much in the way of other synergies.)

[GundamGuy]

Just by curiosity, what if you have doubling season and oath of gideon in play? How would the effect apply? First on the battlefield applied first?

You control both sources of the replacement effects and the perm it would affect, so I think you get to choose the order that the replacement effects are applied in.

- Not a Judge, so take it with a grain of salt for now.

[square_two]

Friend of mine has already picked up his foiled playset of Ceaseless Searblades for the combo with the UR manland. 30 cents apiece, woo.

[MaximumC]

Friend of mine has already picked up his foiled playset of Ceaseless Searblades for the combo with the UR manland. 30 cents apiece, woo.

Best of luck. This combo already existed with Lavaclaw Reaches, and Searblades was still a quarter per foil. So....

[Cire]

Oath of Gideon can lead the following Planewalkers into an ultimate the turn after they are cast assuming you use the PW's + ability (plus oath defends them) (not counting the PW's with those non-ultimates like Gideon)


Ajani Goldmane
Chandra Ablaze
Chandra Nalaar
Elspeth Tirel (goes ultimate turn of)
Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
Garruk Wildspeaker (goes ultimate turn of)
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar (survives his ultimate turn of now)
Koth of the Hammer
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Sarkhan Vol
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Sorin Markov
Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Tezzeret the Seeker (goes ultimate turn of)
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas (goes ultimate turn of)
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Vraska the Unseen


I don't see anything that is worth "comboing" with Oath . . .

[Cire]

Best of luck. This combo already existed with Lavaclaw Reaches, and Searblades was still a quarter per foil. So....

but now you can run both for 8 combo cards which makes the combo much more consistent.

[MaximumC]

but now you can run both for 8 combo cards which makes the combo much more consistent.

Yeah, it's still a 2-card, 3R combo that wins only if you can attack unblocked with a non-sick creature with 1 toughness. Cute for Cube and EDH, but I'm not betting on this for Modern. The only thing it's got going for it is that the manlands are not terrible on their own.