FydFyp goes global! The next time I get to write a tournament report it's going in there. Lol. Enter Fydfyp into Rhino to describe turns 1-3!Originally Posted by Bobmans
Isn't DCM just cute? What are the odds your actually going to copy something good with it?
Losing to Shardless seems horrible.
Kommand is awesome vs DnT. Also it is nice vs MUD. Pulse on the other hand is solid vs Grixis and Shardless. Personally i am not sure which one i would prefer. Often i just go with Pulse since it is more versatile (or commenly used). Kommand is a sideboard card for me, but i am looking for reasons to replace the MD pulse with it...
Speaking of Baloth, i am having this (somewhat) wild idea about the Jund creatures. Offcourse you meant Obstinate Baloth, but i have been playing with Rampaging Baloths with some succes. Now, since Arianrhod is promoting Nissa, Vastwood Seer, with the printing of Mina and Denn, Wildborn and Embodiment of Insight i have been toying with the idea of going on with including Courser of Kruphix and (stealing the idea of Rampaging Baloths) replacing the 6 drop with a 7 drop Omnath, Locus of Rage. This is pulling pretty heavy on the manabase, but there are some wicked plays between all those cards. Obviously Primeval Titan also becomes stronger here. But where lays the balance... Is a control based JUND list the right list for all those creatures, or do i have to look more to ScapeWish?
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Isn't the problem with that idea that by the time you're able to actually drop it, you've already used most of your landdrops? And Titania, Protector of Argoth would give you almost the same utility (more or less, work with me here) @5 mana rather than 7.
Also, shouldn't you aim to kill your opponent wel before Omnath would hit the field..?
If you want to go for the long game you're probably better off with the BGW build that runs Meren and Karador. That build inevitably locks up the game by recurring Pernicious Deed/PtE every single turn if your opponent hasn't succumbed to Rhino beats yet.
I will be that guy now. What is going on with all these 6-7 cmc creatures that have been floating around lately in this thread? I'd like to remember that one of the best creatures we can play (if not the Very best, aka Sigarda) is only 5cmc. And I find that 6 mana (to gsz for her) is pushing it already mana cost wise. I know you all are testing jund right now, but this is just a kind reminder to bring you folks back to the earth!
You're so not The Guy. The Guy would be someone displaying Lemnearean vehemence concerning the perceived current display of stupidity.
Also, you'd have to do better than "Meh, it isn't Sigarda". Especially when the discussion is revolving around a non-Junk build.
I'm at work and on my phone so I can't write an essay. Your attitude seems funny as always, I see.
I simply think we are being too cute at the moment with all these weird creatures. Speaking of Sigarda, I have just compared mana cost to power ratio and I find that, in the general nic fit archetype, we can't do better than she already does. If the goal of this thread is to develop a somewhat competitive deck, I personally think that we are going in the wrong direction. No hard feelings!
I'm glad you understand it for what it is.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with your assessment and from what I've witnessed I'm under the impression that the BGW build is the strongest one out there at the moment. It simply runs the most efficient cards with the best cost to power ratio.
That being said, when discussing a different build I'm convinced one should argue from that particular context. If you don't, "Why don't you run Brainstorm?" would be a perfectly valid point when discussing the BGW build.
There's also a difference between "Meh, it's cute" and "Meh, it's cute b/c reasons. Card X does nearly the same for less mana, why wouldn't you run that?".
I actually overlooked Titania.. But i think the synergy between Mina and Denn and Embodiment of Insight might be higher. Lands in play aren't going anywhere near the graveyard without a irreversible sac outlet. Bouncing lands to replay them into becoming hasted vigilance attackers (with Insight) looks more solid. Combine this bouncing with Omnath and your going complete bananas here. Also at this point a Pernicious Deed set of at 0 will most likely kill your opponent. Titania also makes Elementals which feed Omnath, but i will have to actually test several configuration to see how (and if) it will actually work.
You are probably right about killing your opponent before you hit the critical mass of 7+ mana, but Omnath looks to be a game sealer which is actually missing in Primeval Titan. For a long while i have been looking for a substitute and Rampaging Baloth was the best (better) alternative (GSZ'ble). Tweaking the Jund list towards Stormbreath Dragon already asked a lot of dedication towards the manabase and does not leave many room for creativity. I was looking at Mina and Denn and was wondering how i could fit the card into Jund (and if it would be a good fit). In my signature list replacing 1 Huntmaster of Mina and Denn is an obvious one. But also i want to try Nissa, without having to cut Courser. So this trio looks to be clunky at first hand, but might actually slingshot the game going over the top in no time. With that said, card as Omnath to close the deal don't look so unrealistic anymore to me. I believe these cards have a potential. It might miss the critical mass to be Legacy worthy or not, but actual testing must be conclusive to this. Currently i shifted away from NicFit as my main competitive deck and am toying around with it as my pet deck. JUND has always been my favorite, despite having some great tools in both Junk and BUG i just want to focus on JUND. So, in all new card excitement i will test all this madness and keep you informed if interested.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Because otherwise I'd be repeating the things I have always been saying: mana efficiency - resiliency of our threats. I feel that the latest lists I have been reading here are going in the opposite direction but that's just my personal opinion.I'm glad you understand it for what it is
Don't get me wrong, I agree with your assessment and from what I've witnessed I'm under the impression that the BGW build is the strongest one out there at the moment. It simply runs the most efficient cards with the best cost to power ratio.
That being said, when discussing a different build I'm convinced one should argue from that particular context. If you don't, "Why don't you run Brainstorm?" would be a perfectly valid point when discussing the BGW build.
There's also a difference between "Meh, it's cute" and "Meh, it's cute b/c reasons. Card X does nearly the same for less mana, why wouldn't you run that?".
Everybody knows mana effiency, resilience of threats, etc etc. But that is just soo boring, nothing exciting comes from that. If there is place for creativity, it is here. And to be creative, one should be looking out of the box.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
A lot of the discussion here will involve repeating the same things over and over again (probably at least once per page). Be glad this isn't the Elves! board. There, every suggestion (rightfully) gets met with "Does it kill quicker than Craterhoof Behemoth?" or, if it's a card that costs 3+ mana "Does it let you win on the spot more efficiently/easily than Natural Order does?". Heck, why do you think that board is so quiet? Lol.
It's important to keep asking those questions/repeating those things, otherwise we might end up with a 5 colour Elder Dragon Fit deck b/c it's so neat. Or something silly like that.
@Bobmans: Good to know you're a fan of Garfunkel and Oates' Loophole.
Lol, nah i dont do anal.
Tweaking a list to be as competitive as possible is something else as exploring the unexplored. But somewhere a line have to be drawn and saying, okay this is nice and all, but it ain't gonna work. But if you limit yourself by shooting off an idea before you've even given it a chance then that is a waste.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I was referring to the (last) part about chastity belts having locks hence the need to think outside the box, without the intended pun. Butt... that kinda requires a somewhat too... intimate... knowledge of the song, I guess. I'm not all that interested in what you do or not do with your ass, lol. Thanks for that bit of enlightenment, though.
Ok, in all seriousness, i just played one match against BUG Delver (Hymn version) with a list including all those weird creatures. No SB. Went 2-0.
Game 1 was pretty crazy, i do some Therapy+Explorer (Missing FoW and hitting Liliana) action while holding a Omnath and have a SDT out. T4 i land Nissa and drop the Forest triggering the Nissa flip. -2 the ability and have a 4/4 creature to block a 5/6 Goyf. Next turn i land the Omnath and drop a fetchland which i break to get a dual. 2 5/5 tokens land. His turn i block his goyf (yes, he attacks) and 1 token dies. Bolt to the head. From there he can't recover and it finishes really fast between Omnath, Nissa +1 and SDT.
Game 2 was more grindy. He wastes my Bayou after i play Veteran Explorer and only have a Mountain. The dude attacks with Goyf for me so block with the explorer (jeej). I land Nissa to get another forest. and i land a SDT. He Decay's my Nissa and attacks face with 4/5 Goyf. he lands 2 Delvers and a DRS. I find Grove and a Punishing Fire. Slowly i am eating his board while he fails to flip the Delvers. Mina and Denn show up, but other then a 4/4 body it is nothing fancy. I then play Witness on Nissa. Eventually i land a Embodiment of Insight and play the Nissa. I then play a fetch to flip the Nissa and +1 for more lands (after SDT reveals another land). I fetch for a Badlands and the leaves me with 3 hasted 3/3 lands (one of them a Badlands ^_^) + Mina and Denn ftw. He gets another turn, but that couldn't have possibly done anything.
Ok so, the synergy between the cards is outrageous. But one match is way to soon to tell anything.
List for reference:
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Mina and Denn, Wildborn
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
1 Embodiment of Insight
1 Omnath, Locus of Rage
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Painful Truths
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Punishing Fire
1 Kolaghan's Command
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
@Arianrhod: Sorry to hear things didn't pan out at Mythic. My gut feeling about Truths (slow and incorrect for Mythic) and Ashiok appear to be true.
@Wastes/Colorless-Diamond Mana: I'm assuming this mana is its own thing (ie; this is the fabled "purple" finally being printed). I can't pay G or B in place of the diamond mana, correct?
Likewise, are older cards (let's say Wasteland and Rishadan Port) being errata'ed to now print diamond-colorless or will they continue to make generic [1] colorless? I'm not really in the loop with all this stuff except that there is a new archetype of basic lands.
Since I found out that there's a "sixth color" now, I've been toying with the idea of a BGC version of the deck. The biggest draw immediately was Kozilek 2.0, obviously -- giving Nic Fit a draw 7 and counter-control is pretty unreasonable. I didn't really give it too much thought until the full set spoiler was out.
@New cards:
Warping Wail --> http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...0369637047.png
I like this card. It will likely see legacy play, but its popularity is meta-dependent. As others have said, opponents will likely use this against Nic Fit.
The issue for DnT including this card is finding adequate space in their 60. DnT has also shifted more towards its "tax" side (Thalia + Pegasus), so the prospect of a 3 or 4 mana removal/counterspell isn't so easy. That's mana usually spent on Rishadan-ing their opponents or simply churning out guys when Vial can't. No sure if Maverick or Delver will run this thing.
Mina and Denn, Wildborn ---> http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...3500650827.png
Can't help but think Aggro Loam, Maverick (Punishing/Naya/4C), and Jund want this more than Nic Fit. Recurring and playing multiple Wastelands per turn will be a thing. Crazy synergy with cards in those decks (KotR, Liliana, Courser, Loam, etc). The card itself is good, but Nic Fit would need to change its composition to include this card. That may be asking for too much.
I think everything else in the set is "okay". I'm not impressed with Matter Reshaper because it's conditional at best. If you're looking forward to establishing small combos/best-case-scenarios, you're better off running Archangel of Thune + Spike Feeder for infinite life/growth of creatures. I think Kozilek's Return may make it into the format because it's a colorless pyroclasm.
I like Empath and the creatures you mention. However, I disagree with Truths. I think the card is too slow (Mythic's meta = lots of fast decks -- dominated by quality Delver pilots). I already run Tasigur. I like the idea of Empath ---> Tasigur or Dragonlord Dromoka (a card I've been keeping an eye on). Maybe Karador fits into this lineup as well.
On another note, there was a Nic Fit list a while back that ran Satyr Wayfinder. I believe it ran several Restoration Angels (combo with additional Satyr triggers or just combo with Thragtusk). I could see some very different variant of Nic Fit using him to fuel the grave/filter, which could then muscle out Tasigur or bring back important stuff with Eternal Witness. Perhaps it's possible to merge his mechanics with Meren and Karador? My brain can't figure things out, but that list still stands out because it focused Nic Fit in a different direction.
I think Dragonlord Dromoka and the Titans are likely the only true "it always costs 6 mana to cast" creatures I'd run. If anything, I'd be down to run more of the neglected 5 drops like Baneslayer.
Here's my personal list of playable 6 drops:
Titans (any of them)
Dragonlord Dromoka
Consecrated Sphinx
Deadeye Navigator
Wurmcoil Engine
That's it. I don't think any other 6-drop is good enough.
Dragonlord Silumgar comes very close, but at the end of the day, you'd sooner run Frost Titan, ConSphinx, and Deadeye all before him. Greenwarden of Murasa is also not awful, but, again, there's just better cards.
Dromoka is kind of a standout just by virtue of not coming from the Scars of Mirrodin/Innistrad era. Like, seriously, that was the golden age for 6-drops. I'm personally a little uneasy about Dromoka still, just because legendary creatures need to pull a //LOT// of weight in my book to be worth the Karakas drawback, and at the end of the day, Dromoka is still just an enormous flying beatstick that has no protection and doesn't do anything when he comes in, or when he leaves play.
----------
Mythic White
----------
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Sun Titan
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Vindicate
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Painful Truths
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
//sb
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thoughtseize
2 Slaughter Games
1 Nether Void
1 Golgari Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip
This is my current default list for Mythic next month. I'm also still actively considering the BGC list that I posted about yesterday, as well as giving the Reanimator version another look. Failing either of those lists doing unexpectedly well, I'll be on something like this next month.
After playing some more games i can honostly say that Nissa, Vastwood Seer is awesome.
One game i had a courser out and some crap floating on top. I played her to shuffle, and a land showed on top (also had Omnath out) I played the land. Nissa flipped and Omnath spit a token. Either way, if you -2 Nissa you got a solid blocker and after that the +1 bury's you in CA. Just awesome. For that Arianrhod, i thank you.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I was wondering when the fact that we could pull Wastes off of VetEx would come up.
I don't know how good Warping Wail really is. I think it's going to be difficult for any deck playing more than one color to do what it wants to do and have the mana up and have the card in hand to get 'em. Seems like you end up with two sort of watered-down plans: the play posts, counter wincon, jam Eldrazi plan, and the traditional vetex/therapy plan. One is colorless by design, the other is color-intensive. You didn't have these problems in your test games?
I like STE, also want to point out that Search for Tomorrow is a way to find Wastes that can be played on T1 in addition to VetEx.
I think in my head I saw this deck being more about Pod -- going up the Eldrazi chain from Matter Reshaper to Thought-Knot to Reality Smasher (have you read this card? So sick) and not playing Zenith much if at all (despite it being my favorite card). Can also top that off with Wurmcoil or something. That might not have enough game against combo, but would probably be sick if it panned out.
I was actually very worried about trying to fuse the GB Nic Fit plan with the colorless post plan. I never ran into a single issue with it. I actually kind of wonder if some of that is because 6 posts is the sweet spot, and trying to play more than that gets you into trouble. That being said, I did actively try to hold down on the black costs in the deck as much as I could -- the whole deck can run off of 1 swamp.
My problem with Reality Smasher is that in older formats, he's going to get brickwalled by Goyf too often. I think the card is going to be a standard powerhouse, and it makes me very glad that I'm playing Crackling Doom in that format. Back here, though, no matter how much I like him as this deck's "baneslayer/stormbreath" slot (the 5-drop non-zenithable bomb), the fact that he doesn't have any kind of evasion and just loses to Goyf makes me remove him from consideration immediately.
@Arianrhod stable mana base for Nic feat. 8Post is done, not sure are you ignoring posts or just didn't notice last one http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Nic-Feat-8Post
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