[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[Richard Cheese]

Doesn't really matter which Dark Rit you run, as long as it's from Mirage -> Urza's Saga, as none of those can be countered.

[.dk]

bbbbut then you can't bait counters with the first ritual!

[phazonmutant]

I think Mercadian Masque's Dark Ritual art is the best piece of art in Magic (see my avatar), but it doesn't come in Korean. Bold Korean FBB 4th has a great look too so that's my favorite.

Did you just jam an Island in there, or modify the fetches too? I'm tending to agree with you on Chrome Mox, particularly after some of our goldfish data from a few months ago. I might replace it with the 4th Underground Sea again so I don't screw up the fetches.

I've been running 2 Ponder, 2 SDT, and 2 LDV main lately. Although I'm feeling the need for more Ponders, so maybe that will go to 3/1/2. I've found that 2x LDV has helped me find sideboard pieces (serenity, massacre) that I don't have enough room to run a bunch of.

Oh you're right, forgot to mention that I swapped 2 Marsh Flats for 2 Flooded Strands. Not major.

It seems loony to me to not run 4 Ponders in Legacy, especially a combo deck. Top is a fine card, but it's a supplement. I've been liking LDV less with the transformational plan. Top gives you so many looks with a fetchland or two that it's not that far off from LDV once you factor in that it can draw immediately, and LDV is pretty awful with the Mentor plan because of the card disadvantage.

[.dk]

Oh you're right, forgot to mention that I swapped 2 Marsh Flats for 2 Flooded Strands. Not major.

It seems loony to me to not run 4 Ponders in Legacy, especially a combo deck. Top is a fine card, but it's a supplement. I've been liking LDV less with the transformational plan. Top gives you so many looks with a fetchland or two that it's not that far off from LDV once you factor in that it can draw immediately, and LDV is pretty awful with the Mentor plan because of the card disadvantage.

In a general sense, I agree with you. My reasoning was this:

1. I wanted Mystical Tutor to be able to run sideboard bullets and find them
2. The maindeck is SO strong G1, I can afford to power it down slightly by swapping 2 Ponder for 2 Top
3. Top is bonkers with Mentor. Particularly with 2 of them and rituals.

Your points are well taken, particularly about card disadvantage with Mentor - my take was that tradeoff was worth it to be able to find sideboard bullets more consistently. You might be right that the 2nd Top is better than the 2nd LDV though for the same reasons I said above. It slightly powers down the maindeck while giving you a more powerful sideboard plan with Mentor, and still does a great job filtering to find sideboard bullets.

Another possibility: If one believes that 14 lands is fine and that Chrome Mox really isn't needed - you could swap the Chrome Mox for a Sensei's Divining Top as well. Run 4 Ponders, 2 Tops, 0 Chrome Mox, and 1 LDV or something like that. That would also keep you more consistent in hitting your 3rd land drop post-board.

[phazonmutant]

In a general sense, I agree with you. My reasoning was this:

1. I wanted Mystical Tutor to be able to run sideboard bullets and find them
2. The maindeck is SO strong G1, I can afford to power it down slightly by swapping 2 Ponder for 2 Top
3. Top is bonkers with Mentor. Particularly with 2 of them and rituals.

Your points are well taken, particularly about card disadvantage with Mentor - my take was that tradeoff was worth it to be able to find sideboard bullets more consistently. You might be right that the 2nd Top is better than the 2nd LDV though for the same reasons I said above. It slightly powers down the maindeck while giving you a more powerful sideboard plan with Mentor, and still does a great job filtering to find sideboard bullets.

Another possibility: If one believes that 14 lands is fine and that Chrome Mox really isn't needed - you could swap the Chrome Mox for a Sensei's Divining Top as well. Run 4 Ponders, 2 Tops, 0 Chrome Mox, and 1 LDV or something like that. That would also keep you more consistent in hitting your 3rd land drop post-board.

Do you think 14 lands is fine for getting to 3-4 post board? I was finding 15 a little light for the 4-Mentor plan. Ideally you want to be able to play around Daze and hit land on time.

[.dk]

Do you think 14 lands is fine for getting to 3-4 post board? I was finding 15 a little light for the 4-Mentor plan. Ideally you want to be able to play around Daze and hit land on time.

I'm playing a Cavern in my sideboard as well, so that brings it to 15 post board. I'm pretty aggressive with how I play the board plan too (and granted, I'm running 4 bobs and you're not). So if I can petal or ritual out a mentor earlier, I will. My thought was that with 15 lands, 4 petals, and 4 rituals, we have 23 mana sources essentially - should be enough to cast mentor on T2/3 fairly consistently - even through Daze with the extra mana the rituals make.

[phazonmutant]

I'm playing a Cavern in my sideboard as well, so that brings it to 15 post board. I'm pretty aggressive with how I play the board plan too (and granted, I'm running 4 bobs and you're not). So if I can petal or ritual out a mentor earlier, I will. My thought was that with 15 lands, 4 petals, and 4 rituals, we have 23 mana sources essentially - should be enough to cast mentor on T2/3 fairly consistently - even through Daze with the extra mana the rituals make.

Definitely, I'm on the same page with casting it early. Holding back fast mana does allow an immediate Monk though. Need more practice to tell.

ESG commented on how powerful Reanimate was looking in the postboard plan. What do you guys think about either swapping a Goryo's Vengeance or finding room for another one?

[Koby]

It seems loony to me to not run 4 Ponders in Legacy, especially a combo deck. Top is a fine card, but it's a supplement. I've been liking LDV less with the transformational plan. Top gives you so many looks with a fetchland or two that it's not that far off from LDV once you factor in that it can draw immediately, and LDV is pretty awful with the Mentor plan because of the card disadvantage.

I agree with this, and also swapped 1 LDV for 1 Top. I like both, so I'm not inclined to swap to all Tops or all LDV at this point.

FWIW, I sub out 4 Graves 3 Goryo's, but keep 1 Reanimate in main. I also keep Entomb as a Therapy tutor (as another spell to cast off DR with mentor out).

[.dk]

Next time I play the deck, I'll try out 4 Ponder, 2 SDT, 1 LDV, 0 Chrome Mox maindeck and see where that takes me.

I was thinking about adding another reanimate somewhere as well, but not sure what to cut for it. I don't much like the idea of swapping out instant speed reanimation - possibly the 2nd top in the config listed above?

Koby - I keep the 1 reanimate as well. Although I haven't been keeping Entomb - but you do make a good point about a Therapy tutor. I haven't played around with variants on the sideboard plan - I'll have to try keeping some number of Entombs sometime. If I have extra slots, I've typically been keeping a Shallow Grave in as reanimation for dead Mentors.

[phazonmutant]

Next time I play the deck, I'll try out 4 Ponder, 2 SDT, 1 LDV, 0 Chrome Mox maindeck and see where that takes me.

I was thinking about adding another reanimate somewhere as well, but not sure what to cut for it. I don't much like the idea of swapping out instant speed reanimation - possibly the 2nd top in the config listed above?

Koby - I keep the 1 reanimate as well. Although I haven't been keeping Entomb - but you do make a good point about a Therapy tutor. I haven't played around with variants on the sideboard plan - I'll have to try keeping some number of Entombs sometime. If I have extra slots, I've typically been keeping a Shallow Grave in as reanimation for dead Mentors.

Trimming Top was my first thought, too.

I've tried a few different plans for the sideboard and so far I like leaving in Shallow Graves the best because it's such a good interaction with Mentor (especially if you have Chain of Vapor in hand). Entomb is fine though. I like that the opponent usually freaks out when they see Shallow Grave or Entomb in hand and immediately take it with discard, even though they kind of suck postboard.

[alastair]

[*]Alpha swamp or Unhinged swamp?[*]MM Dark Ritual or Tempest Dark Ritual[/LIST]

Quite simply you play A B or those dated 1994. Nothing else is acceptable.

[Gikkman]

I've been trying to get my head around the Monestary Mentor sideboard plan. What do you side them in against? And the Bob's, do they come in in the same matchups as Mentor?

[.dk]

You side them in against most decks to dodge graveyard hate. Unless they're overloaded on removal like RUG, I would almost always side them in game 2. And you want Bob's with Mentor as more card draw to fuel Mentor triggers.

[Gikkman]

Huh, so most matchups that aren't combo matchups I guess.

I'll try it tomorrow and see how it goes. Somthing like:

4 Mentor
2-4 Bob
1 Serenity
1 Cavern of Souls (I like this idea)
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Massacre
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical
(0-2 Abayence)
(0-1 Top)

There is a lot of Combo, DnT, Elves and Nic Fit around here

[Koby]

There is a lot of Combo, DnT, Elves and Nic Fit around here

You probably don't want the man-plan if you have these type of decks around. You will want Massacre, Silence or Surgical, Needle, and Chain of Vapor.

[Gikkman]

You probably don't want the man-plan if you have these type of decks around. You will want Massacre, Silence or Surgical, Needle, and Chain of Vapor.

I am so bad at sideboarding. My biggest flaw... I actually thought the bodies were good against DnT. But I'll try to scout a bit and keep that in mind then. Thanks ^.^

[Acclimation]

I made something for you guys:

I was watching this episode last week, how about that coincidence!


I should really bite the bullet and purchase Bobs so I can crush all of the people that have decided to skew their sideboards to hate.

Real glad to see that the Mentor for lulz plan I borrowed from DDFT is working out for everyone.

[fluuu]

Could u post the most recent list please?

Thanks

[Koby]

Could u post the most recent list please?

Thanks

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Post #2621

[fluuu]

Post #1
Post #2621

How do u really beat karakas and rip deck's?