I tend to disagree, but this discussion is academic as it comes from the fact that your deck is very different from more disruptive versions of the deck.Originally Posted by Gheizen64
Anyways: I went 3-1 in my local game store with this more aggressive version:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Wasteland
4x Eldrazi Mimic
2x Endbringer
4x Endless One
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Mox Diamond
3x Trinisphere
4x Warping Wail
Sideboard (15)
1x All Is Dust
3x Dismember
1x Endbringer
4x Faerie Macabre
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Tormod's Crypt
It went like this:
2-1 Burn: G1 I go T1 Trinisphere not knowing what he plays and he plays Mountain, so I go T2 Chalice into T3 Thought Knot Seer.
G2 I mull, but am able to play Chalices on 1 and 3, but he is able to stabilize behind Ensnaring Bridge and Smash to Smithereens the Chalice at which point I lose.
G3 he Mulligans to 5 and Mimic into Thought-Knot into Thought-Knot rip him apart
2-0 Reanimator:
G1 I know what he plays so I go T1 Chalice 0 and 1 and Revoker on Griselbrand into T2 Thought-Knot Seer.
G2 My starting hand is Ancient Tomb, Eldrazi Land, Thought Kot Seer, Tormod's Crypt, Faerie Macabre and Warping Wail - I think it is nearly impossible to lose with this hand
2-1 Belcher:
G1 On the play I have T1 Chalice 0 and Revoker - but he has 3 Spirit guides into Tinder Wall into Ritual into Empty the Warrens for 10 Goblins...
G2 He mulligans, I Revoke Goblin Charbelcher and does not do too much T1 and I can Thought-Knot his Burning Wish. He has no kill spell the rest of the game.
G3 I have Ratchet bomb and Revoker in my hand - As long as he cannot kill me on T1 I should be fine. He makes 10 Goblins and I bomb them away and Thought-Knot him.
0-2 Lands:
G1 he can stabilize with 2 Maze of Ith and i have to pay 3 with Ancient Tombs to attack with a single Eldrazi Mimic until he finds the combo and Marit Lage eats me.
G2 More of the same beats as he is able to T1 Exploration and naturally play Stage-Dark Depths T2 to kill me.
I would play the following from here on:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Crystal Vein/Mishra's Factory/??
4x Wasteland
4x Eldrazi Mimic
2x Endbringer
4x Endless One
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
3x Trinisphere
3x Warping Wail
Sideboard (15)
2x Dismember
1x Endbringer
4x Faerie Macabre
3x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Tormod's Crypt
Pithing Needle is good against 2 of the supposedly bad matchups in Lands and Show and Tell based decks. Against Lands you need a Needle or you are always naked to Marit Lage (Endbringer is a an extremely slow answer).
Chalice on 1
Yep, this should it be - Moon (Painter, Stompy, Miracle Side) is also a pain, more for the Aggro Eldrazi (since no Mana Artifacts) unless they go first with Eye into some Mimics for a fast Beat down.
I still try the GW-Ramp idea:
so 2 Brushland, 3 Talisman of Duty and 1 Eldrazi Displacer and 2 World Breaker Main!
Found Displacer (i like him a lot) is not castable enough with 9 GW Sources at early rounds, so i still think 1 is fine unless you put in more Talisman Stuff or a lucky with Cavern - so i still run 3 Reshaper to get an early dude online.
For the 2nd World Breaker i cutted 1 Conduit, because i think 2 are still fine with 2 Eye which means 4 tutors for 3 Mid-Late Game Targets. Breaker can stall the field very well, so it should be ok.
My side change here and there (unless the fix stuff like Bomb, Revoker, Faerie etc.) today this worked good for a couple of matches:
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 All Is Dust
1 Platinum Angel
TEAM MtG Berlin
main deck?
// Deck: Eldrazi v3.dec (60)
// Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Brushland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
// Creatures
2 Conduit of Ruin
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endless One
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 World Breaker
// Spells
2 All Is Dust
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grim Monolith
3 Talisman of Unity
1 Trinisphere
4 Warping Wail
See posts about it before.
TEAM MtG Berlin
Hofzge I have been running a very similar list concentrated on aggression (old list is a few pages back) and would love your input on a few things, mainly:
- How much has Trinisphere had dissynergy with Eye? I'm somewhat afraid of 3Ball slowing us down considerably too.
- How has Mox Diamond been? I tested it before and was very unimpressed with it. Discarding lands, despite it landing lock pieces early, feels awful in such a mana-hungry deck.
Anyway, my revised list looks like:
Creatures: (24)
4 Endless One
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Non-Creature Spells: (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
Lands: (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard: (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Endbringer
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spellskite
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
Major change is SSG as acceleration piece, which can be hardcast at time too via Cavern, and introduction of Thorns. Though if 3Balls are still valid to everyone despite Eye dissynergy I'm happy to replace them with those. I'll be playing a weekly tomorrow with this nonetheless and will report results.
Also on Cockatrice I played the mirror so many times today... This deck is really gaining momentum. I can see that the aggressive lists are starting to boil down to an obvious core (it's just the best small Eldrazi + locks + some removal, so no surprises there), but it seems like the midrange variants are going in a variety of diverging directions which is cool too. I'm personally a big fan of finding a place for Worldbreaker. I might try find time to tune a list that runs in a similar way to how MUD functions, going a bit bigger though, however.
EDIT: Couldn't sleep if I didn't brew a list. Completely untested, but going along MD.Ghost's lines:
Creatures: (19)
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 World Breaker
2 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Non-Creature Spells: (16)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere
3 Punishing Fire
2 All Is Dust
Lands: (25)
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
Sideboard: (15)
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
This is completely untested and just theorycraft. That being said, Grove is probably one of the best lands for this kind of list, as it casts World Breaker and our colourless spells easily and gives us access to a powerful creature control mechanism. Kozilek's Return is also sweet out of the sideboard and I guess Grudge is potentially castable? :/ Nonetheless I like the look of this list.
To everyone using Brushland, I'd consider Horizon Canopy over it. I think it's well worth the fact that it doesn't tap for colorless.
I've been doing some testing with Mishra's Factory, and I think it's worth slots. It allows you to do something productive when you're short of mana due to Wasteland, and it helps push through the last few points of damage. I like them quite a lot.
I also tried Mind Stone, and I don't know if they are worthwhile. In the first two turns of the game, if you nothing better to spend your mana than Mind Stone, I think you probably should have mulliganed. After the first two turns of the game, it feels like a pretty low-impact play. As for counterplay against Wasteland and Blood Moon: I feel we are good enough versus the tempo Wasteland decks, so I'd really only want it to have an out to Blood Moon, and that might not be good enough. I think they are not clearly better than basic Wastes in that specific role. Another thing is that the red Stompy decks that can play t1/t2 Blood Moon are already bad matchups, and so it might just be worth conceding the matchup altogether.
- You might be right running the Thorns - Trinisphere is such a crutch without Monolith...
- Mox Diamond is great, but you might be right to run the spirit guides. It is funny that before the PT Pdingo suggested those and everybody say "OMG NO" and once LSV plays a card everyone sounds like it is the most established card ever ;)
I like you cutting maindeck Wails, as I did not entirely like them (they go against the lockpiece-tapout nature of the deck). Thorns are kind of a nombo with them, too...
But all considered i like your deck - if you don't run Moxen, I would cut an Eye as the second one is totally worthless...
World Breaker is the Eldrazi with the highest upside to play, as he can save you from all kinds of bad situations and is also a fast clock for not too much mana. I like brewing around him and am no longer sure if the Titan is needed if you play multiple World Breakers you can tutor for. Cool list tough!
Chalice on 1
I agree Mishra's Factory has been very good for me. I only run 1 right now but wish I could make room for another. Very hesitant to cut the 4th Cavern for one though because in the matchups where Cavern is good it can single-handedly win the game.
I've been cutting some Wastelands for it. It's nice to have access to the effect to interact with high-impact lands, but the point of Chalice and Thorn/Sphere is not to completely lock people out of the game, just to buy some tempo for our fatties. I don't think we are eager to nuke lands early on in the game. I've been trying the following land base:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Keep in mind that I'm not running Mox Diamond, so multiple-Eye draws are kind of a disaster. You can cut the Urborg for the 4th Cavern easily, but I think it's nice to have access to it when multiple Ancient Tombs are screwing us out of the game.
That looks like a solid manabase. I have been torn on number of Eye for non-Mox Diamond lists. It feels like you want 2.5 in the deck, and I'm having a hard time deciding between 2 and 3...
How has Endbringer performed in peoples' testing? I like the idea of having a high-ish end threat that we can reliably cast, but it seems absolutely glacial.
Team Info-Ninjas: Catchphrases so secret, I don't even know what they are!
I think it's necessary to play 1-2 with what we have to work with right now, but I am not particularly happy about having to play a 6-mana Eldrazi in this deck. It's important to have enough strong triggers for Mimic as well as a nice maindeck "answer" to Goyfs and Gurmags.
Someone in my testing group suggested Basilisk Collar as a potential equipment to help deal with how difficult Tarmogoyf is to manage... card is hilarious with Endbringer.
Roses are colorless.
Violets are colorless.
Everything is nothing.
Interesting, although I am hesitant to try it with our 4 Chalice. I think Metamorph gumming up the board and/or 2 Jittes help with the Tarmo issue. As many people probably realize Tarmogoyf seems like one of the biggest problems for us against the fair decks, so it's definitely good to try to add something to help combat the issue.
I still feel that using Brushland (or similiar lands) are needed IF you play with Reshaper, because Eye+Brushland and you can cast this guy. Canopy can be ok with Crucible but i will not sac. my own lands in a build that can use the mana up to Ulamog & Friends. For "pay life" we already have Tomb and i would avoid more of this unless i want to cast Displacer/World Breaker.
Yep, i can see Mishra's Factory over Wasteland even in an Aggro Shell. It will help if your opponent killed the Field (he we already get a post with "Golgari Charm vs Mimics" which is so crazy) and all the aggressive already City, so sacrifice more of our own lands can't be the right way unless you face situations like Clacial Chasm, Maze, Tabernacle etc. (see the bad lands matchup).
Mind Stone and similar should only be used in a ramp Shell - you are right, that it is not good in a build with aggressive builds with Mimic which want to close the game as fast as possible.
I think if we explore the "colored" Eldrazi - World Breaker is the real deal, 7 Mana is manageable if you have a build with ramp (i cast Ulamog today as a turn 3 play!). World Breaker itself do so many good stuff, he is a deadly Wall to Gofy, (most)Knights, Angler, Delver, Sigarda, DnT Flyers etc. and he will get rid of Moon, Humility, Bridge and all the annoying stuff including lands.
I played him at my earlier "Midrange Build" (Cloudpost, but no Artifact Ramp) and a pair of him were the "Top End" for this build which was ok. He won me Games vs Sneak&Show (he is really good here) and one Mirror (control Smasher from my opponent^^). BUT: Endbringer is very slow...so now with the ramp build i like Conduit of Ruin over him, because it feels like more raw power if you can follow up with World Breaker, Ulamog or even a Smasher for 3 etc.
I like all the brewing here (seems like Nic Fit^^), the Aggro Shell seemed more and more established (yes you can think about of "Thorn over Sphere" or "Lock Pieces vs Removal" but its colorless core seemed to be set in stone), but i think we get a lot of more unexplored builds if we try to add some colors (we already mentioned World Breaker, Eldrazi Displacer etc.).
So if you want to go RG for Punishing Fire you will get World Breaker (that is the big deal here) and Kozilek's Return. I tought about it and i feel that Punishing Fire is not needed if you can simply cast Kozilek's Return, which will also clean the field (5 Damage is very very good!) later if you follow up with World Breaker&Friends.
So yes "RG build" seems a good idea, if you build it well enough in a ramp shell. I see PFire only as additional removal at side, Kozilek's Return is simply better (also in alot of situations better than all is dust > instant and way cheaper!). This way can also lead to 1-2 Sylvan Libary (which can be nice with Reshaper too) if you can find space for all of the stuff. I feel that Kozilek's Return is better here than in modern, it will wreak most creature based strategies and can also be work against the "Aggro Eldrazi" List if you kill an early Mimic Wave and follow up with ramp into World Breaker and kill even a field of Smashers and Seer (the top end of most Aggro Builds). Kozilek's Return is also uncounterable later (and 5 Damage will also kill a normal gofy, angler etc.) because it happens "on cast".
If you like World Breaker, i would lean to 2 Conduit of Ruin and 3 World Breaker (and 1 Ulamog) as a base for mid till late game Eldrazi.
The biggest question is, how will look the mana base. The build will need more colored mana, so sadly i see no Cloudpost-Lands here, this will lead to "City is back", which means the core lands from the Aggro Shell and in the flex spots (Wasteland/Mishra etc.) you will need RG lands and Talisman of Impulse (Mind Stone Slot) OR Mox Diamond. Mox Diamond will work fine with multiple City/Eye lands, this leads to Crucible (the build will still ramp into higher threats) which is also nice vs Wastelands. This idea will also allow to use World Breakers ability to rise from the grave (Barook mentioned it already!).
The graveyard itself is a resource most legacy decks already use more or less, i think RG Eldrazi can also be profit from it a little bit (recurring Removal, Lands, Beater - seems nice in theory).
Maybe i will brew a little bit about a build - we will see if it can work (oh boy, so many options once you have also access colored mana with Eldrazi).
TEAM MtG Berlin
RG build looks kinda cool, but what does it bring to the table compared to the other builds that's an advantage? PF and K-Return seem interesting but do they really address our problems? Don't get me wrong, I like the build.
On a different note:
It's a shame we have to run CotV, othewise Relic of Progenitus could help combat Lands AND Goyf.
Actually, it occured to me while writing this down: How about SB Rest in Peace? It's unaffected by Chalice @1 and does its numbers on both Lands and Goyf, two of our major problems. I'm aware that it isn't at T0 solution like Leyline or Faerie, but once it hits the board, it's a nice catch-all solution.
Obviously the mana is going to be a major problem, so bear with me for a moment: The GW build currently runs 5 actual white sources (2 Brushland/3 Talisman), which is clearly not enough, especially since Talisman is slow. I'm not a fan of cutting into the Cavern count for additional Brushlands. One thing I could actually see working is replacing the Grim Monoliths (which are pretty much one-time use anyway) for Mox Diamond/Lotus Petal (which have the nice side effect of T1 RiP, or a higher chance for T1 Chalice). Still not enough white sources? Do the "Lejay thing" and jam some Karakas copies into the sideboard as additional white sources. Karakas helps against Lands, Reanimator (double synergy with RiP in both matches!) and S&T.
I think that's a route worth exploring, be it the ramp version or just "normal" midrange aggro.
Rest in Piece give us infinite fuel for Processing. Note that even if you still do the processing (card in exile entering GY), the card is still put into exile, allowing you do do it again. This also opens up Helm as a nice alt win as well.
Helm seems way too greedy. The Legacy version also moved away from Processing.
Numbers are subject to change:
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Brushland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
// Creatures
2 Conduit of Ruin
2 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endless One
2 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 World Breaker
// Spells
2 All Is Dust
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
3 Talisman of Unity
1 Trinisphere
3 Warping Wail
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 All Is Dust
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Spatial Contortion/Warping Wail
SB: 3 Karakas
SB: 4 Rest in Peace
Karakas is main playable imho, just cut into wastelands and go for full toolbox list.
EDIT: ah you play post list. Well, that's a bit harder but still doable i guess.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
