[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Ricardio]

I stand corrected...

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/288744-creatures-with-death-touch-and-first-strike

I just had the time to read this thread and holy sht I hope you were trolling. If you haven't read that, want a laugh and feel depressed/better about yourself, do it.

[Arianrhod]

If your metagame is slow, 3 Truths/2 Top is a fine package. In a faster meta, you probably want 3 Top/1 Sylvan. If your meta is a mix of both slow and fast, you can balance with 2 Truth/2 Top/1 Sylvan. Generally 4-5 dedicated draw/filter cards are where you want to be, coupled with the natural inherent card advantage of the deck and the cards we tend to run.

[Bobmans]

I'd say the common core of most Nic Fit decks is:

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Green Sun's Zenith (can be cut in some pod / bug lists)
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2+ Abrupt decay
1+ Draw Spell (Truths, Read the Bones, Skeletal Scrying)
1 Eternal Witness
2+ Bayou
2-3 Forest
1-2 Swamp
1-2 Other Basic Land
4 Verdant Catacombs
1-3 Other Green Fetchland

IMO Top is pretty important since you really want some repeatable card selection. You have a lot of variance in your draws, particularly lategame - you play huge bombs like Meren, Sigarda and so on, but also 1/1 dorks like Veteran Explorer. Having card selection lets you leverage your potential excellent topdecks and you access to a large number of shuffle effects.

The only real replacement is Sylvan Library, which has a few advantages (dodging chalice@1 which is already awful, and being free / potential actual draws) but also harms the deck in other ways- mainly, it makes Deed a lot more awkward and is a lot easier to remove since you can Abrupt Decay it.

This, and the bold. I might add that Sensei's Divining Top is near impossible to get rid of AND it does not die to your own Pernicious Deed. Having a SDT out makes us so much more consistent. A lot of winning games involve an active top. Sensei's Divining Top is probably one of the most elegant card in Legacy. You can do all kinds of crazy shit with top. The other day i was holding a Top and had one in play. I knew i had removal in the top 3 as the only card and needed to find another removal spell, BUT i needed to look into the new top 3 before i untapped so i got all the mana. So i Spin top 3, in response cracked a fetch, in response Draw top, in response Spin top 3. The result was that drew the removal, shuffled my library and re-stacked my top 3 to find more good stuff before untapping. And with Courser of Krupix and/or Nissa, Vastwood Seer it even gets more crazy.

As for creatures, you typically want to have strictly green creatures in your GSZ build. Also, of those creatures, you want to bring something that gains life. This is due to make the transition to the lategame better. The lategame is where we shine. Getting Pernicious Deed blow-outs and bigger creatures then most decks have. But do not think lightly on the potential blow-out Cabal Therapy plus Veteran Explorer can have on T1/2.

[Ricardio]

Cabal therapy is key. Cabal therapy is the single best discard spell in all of magic and the most skill rewarding.

Also to echo them, you want atleast 2 SDT. they are absolutely necessary.

[Nerubian]

Thanks guys - looks like I'm cutting the Recurring Nightmare and a removal spell from that list to add at least 2 tops. I guess everyone eventually needs to learn how to top effectively and quickly. Another question - are there any videos or good matches to watch to help with the learning process of Nic Fit?

This thread is a bastion of knowledge that I'm going through.

[Arianrhod]

Thanks guys - looks like I'm cutting the Recurring Nightmare and a removal spell from that list to add at least 2 tops. I guess everyone eventually needs to learn how to top effectively and quickly. Another question - are there any videos or good matches to watch to help with the learning process of Nic Fit?

This thread is a bastion of knowledge that I'm going through.

If you need more background, thoughts, or insight into the deck's evolution, there is also this thread:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ith-Control%29

This was the original thread. We branched off and re-made the thread with a full primer after almost 400 pages (7500 posts, containing remarkably little shitposting). There is a reason I'm as proud of this community as I am.

Obviously a lot of the material in this thread is dated, but there are definitely still some gems there, and if you have the time and the desire, it's probably worth the read-through.

[sdematt]

I think Recurring Nightmare is a great card, but with access to Meren, it may not be necessary anymore.

With regards to Slaughter Games, the card is straight bonkers. As Junk, you're a little bit softer to Jace, so being able to remove him is super key (and getting rid of Terminus is also fine as well). I wouldn't cut it, especially right now.

Top is definitely worth it, and Sylvan is highly recommended as a 1-of, since you usually end up drawing so many cards due to Rhinotime. I also love Truths and Scrying, but Sylvan is a bigger beating against Miracles.

With Intent back in the deck, someone has suggested to run Karakas again, especially with Eldrazi running around. However, I'm not sure so, considering the manabase. Thoughts?

-Matt

[Echelon]

I just had the time to read this thread and holy sht I hope you were trolling. If you haven't read that, want a laugh and feel depressed/better about yourself, do it.

OMG the stupidity in that thread. I had to stop reading after a couple of posts b/c I was starting to feel the need to fling my laptop through my TV. Repeatedly.

[Arianrhod]

I think Recurring Nightmare is a great card, but with access to Meren, it may not be necessary anymore.

With regards to Slaughter Games, the card is straight bonkers. As Junk, you're a little bit softer to Jace, so being able to remove him is super key (and getting rid of Terminus is also fine as well). I wouldn't cut it, especially right now.

Top is definitely worth it, and Sylvan is highly recommended as a 1-of, since you usually end up drawing so many cards due to Rhinotime. I also love Truths and Scrying, but Sylvan is a bigger beating against Miracles.

With Intent back in the deck, someone has suggested to run Karakas again, especially with Eldrazi running around. However, I'm not sure so, considering the manabase. Thoughts?

-Matt

What does Karakas do vs Eldrazi, exactly? None of their things are legendary.

Slaughter Games is also good vs Lands, since it can take away their Life from the Loam. Surgical is better in this role, obviously, but Sgt Slaughter will get the job done as well. But yeah, mostly for Miracles and combo.

I think that Nightmare is more powerful than Meren overall, actually. If I only had room for one, I would still with old faithful.

[Ricardio]

Thanks guys - looks like I'm cutting the Recurring Nightmare and a removal spell from that list to add at least 2 tops. I guess everyone eventually needs to learn how to top effectively and quickly. Another question - are there any videos or good matches to watch to help with the learning process of Nic Fit?

This thread is a bastion of knowledge that I'm going through.

Bastion? Like that guy from the neverending story?
removal is key seeing as this is just a bigger jund deck in legacy for lack of a better comparison.
Nic fit equation is Removal + Skillerhino^2 = Winning
A good starting point is my list, bob's or hood's(but mostly mine)

If you need more background, thoughts, or insight into the deck's evolution, there is also this thread:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ith-Control%29

This was the original thread. We branched off and re-made the thread with a full primer after almost 400 pages (7500 posts, containing remarkably little shitposting). There is a reason I'm as proud of this community as I am.

Obviously a lot of the material in this thread is dated, but there are definitely still some gems there, and if you have the time and the desire, it's probably worth the read-through.

DATED!?? Who are you calling old? Soak up the information and learn from it, to put it simpliest.(fk you, its a word)

OMG the stupidity in that thread. I had to stop reading after a couple of posts b/c I was starting to feel the need to fling my laptop through my TV. Repeatedly.

Its like someone spilled stupid all over and then had a pod of walrus try to clean it up.

What does Karakas do vs Eldrazi, exactly? None of their things are legendary.

Slaughter Games is also good vs Lands, since it can take away their Life from the Loam. Surgical is better in this role, obviously, but Sgt Slaughter will get the job done as well. But yeah, mostly for Miracles and combo.

I think that Nightmare is more powerful than Meren overall, actually. If I only had room for one, I would still with old faithful.

Slaughter is great for naming problematic permanents like Ugin and JTMS or neutering combo. I have used it as a 4 cmc therapy before. Surgical hits dark depths/wasteland(save the karakas, save the world) and loam against lands.
I personally wont play nightmare because its more like dreamworld. Few times to I actively wish I had it and most often meren is much better.
We are a Control deck with built in value. not a combo deck. We aint cute, we're wiry and rugged.

I cant seem to find where my 5-0 is published. I am actively looking so there is some credit to my ramblings.

[Tom4ik]

you are playing veteran explorer and siege rhino in legacy. Arnt you already trying to live the dream?

[Bobmans]

I cant seem to find where my 5-0 is published. I am actively looking so there is some credit to my ramblings.

mtgdecks published from 26-02 and 29-02. Can't seem to find 27 and 28, if there is any.

[Ricardio]

you are playing veteran explorer and siege rhino in legacy. Arnt you already trying to live the dream?

Its not a dream if its real. I have pinched myself enough to verify this.

mtgdecks published from 26-02 and 29-02. Can't seem to find 27 and 28, if there is any.

I finished it last night. around 7ish PST but I live in EST. Tangible credit that I am infact a Skillerhino Lord would be nice.

[Arianrhod]

Its not a dream if its real. I have pinched myself enough to verify this.



I finished it last night. around 7ish PST but I live in EST. Tangible credit that I am infact a Skillerhino Lord would be nice.

Ricardio, Crash of Direhorns
2wbg
Creature - Rhino Lord
All other Rhino creatures you control get +1/+1 and vigilance.
4/5

[Ricardio]

Ricardio, Crash of Direhorns
2wbg
Creature - Rhino Lord
All other Rhino creatures you control get +1/+1 and vigilance.
4/5

WOTC, EMPLOY THIS PERSON!

Flavor Text:
I don't always Rhino. Actually, I do.
-Bobman

[Bobmans]

WOTC, EMPLOY THIS PERSON!

Flavor Text:
I don't always Rhino. Actually, I do.
-Bobman

Nailed it.

With regards to Slaughter Games, the card is straight bonkers. As Junk, you're a little bit softer to Jace, so being able to remove him is super key (and getting rid of Terminus is also fine as well). I wouldn't cut it, especially right now.

With Intent back in the deck, someone has suggested to run Karakas again, especially with Eldrazi running around. However, I'm not sure so, considering the manabase. Thoughts?

-Matt

Running Taiga for SG means you'd probably not want to also run Karakas. But if you do, i'd would run a single Knight of the Reliquary. KotR can fetch up the Taiga (or flip away the Taiga in MU's where you don't need the R).

[Ricardio]

Nailed it.

Running Taiga for SG means you'd probably not want to also run Karakas. But if you do, i'd would run a single Knight of the Reliquary. KotR can fetch up the Taiga (or flip away the Taiga in MU's where you don't need the R).

Sweet!

I ran both and didn't have any problems. I felt karakas necessary because dealing with reanimator and the occasionaly turbo lage deck, you absolutely need it. Taiga is a pseudo-forest and karakas is my extra white source/sigarda Segway.

Maindeck feels super strong right now. SB can continue to be tweaked. Thalia felt bad, albeit I never drew her, when I brought her in and thought about drawing her, she was more of an inconvenience than a good card against my opponent. Since we have the mana, I want something more hard hitting. what do you guys think of Painful Quandary instead for storm and slow matchups? How rubble would call it :Is a spicy meatball. haha (no offense intended)

[Arianrhod]

Sweet!

I ran both and didn't have any problems. I felt karakas necessary because dealing with reanimator and the occasionaly turbo lage deck, you absolutely need it. Taiga is a pseudo-forest and karakas is my extra white source/sigarda Segway.

Maindeck feels super strong right now. SB can continue to be tweaked. Thalia felt bad, albeit I never drew her, when I brought her in and thought about drawing her, she was more of an inconvenience than a good card against my opponent. Since we have the mana, I want something more hard hitting. what do you guys think of Painful Quandary instead for storm and slow matchups? How rubble would call it :Is a spicy meatball. haha (no offense intended)

I've tried Painful Quandry in the past and it's never as good as you want it to be, sadly. Try Mindcensor. It still helps in storm (heavily, actually), and is also great in a lot of randomshit.dec matchups.

[Ricardio]

I've tried Painful Quandry in the past and it's never as good as you want it to be, sadly. Try Mindcensor. It still helps in storm (heavily, actually), and is also great in a lot of randomshit.dec matchups.

I will look into the bird, it just doesn't seem as appealing as I want it to. Any other spice? I just wanna throw stuff at the wall and hope it sticks for the sb.

[Arianrhod]

I will look into the bird, it just doesn't seem as appealing as I want it to. Any other spice? I just wanna throw stuff at the wall and hope it sticks for the sb.

Trinisphere is insane, but might not be as great if you don't have multiple ways of turn 2ing it (ie, posts + vet/therapy). Nether Void has been a standby of mine for a longass time -- most storm decks these days are functionally incapable of beating it since it can't be Decayed (also the part where it locks them out of most spells).

Ralf swears by Dryad Militant -- I'm always hesitant because it exiles your Therapies, which halves your effect discard, but it's put up numbers for him.

Those are the main things I would recommend. I have a box full of random garbage like you wouldn't even believe that I've tried over the years. Most of it hasn't worked out, but some of it is hilarious. Have you ever seen Delver/(old) Miracles try to figure out how to beat Raking Canopy?