[Primer] R/G Lands

[filln]

I would be interested in hearing about how these pan out. I think the most important thing is finding a strategy that synergizes/doesn't cut off our primary game plan. The thought being that with Dredging, milling Painter pieces could be bad. But if we could like sneak an Academy Ruins in the deck, it may not be so bad. Or something along those lines. Maybe run a single Unburial Rites or something in the creature sb. I understand the idea is to be fighting against GY hate, but wanted to toss some ideas out there. I have been having some trouble lately, not so much with GY hate, but wouldn't mind heading it off.

For grabbing creatures out of the graveyard maybe Volrath's Stronghold? It's super slow but it sort of works with the Loam dredge plan and it's recurrable. Would be so great if only it added black mana.

[Jo11ygrnreefer]

Would be so great if only it added black mana.

That card exists, it is called a Swamp =)

[Crimhead]

That card exists, it is called a Swamp =)

Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth.

[CovenantElite30]

So I played again last night went 3-1.

My overall record with the deck against burn is 0-3 and 2-6 in games. :-(

I currently play 1 chalice in the side and considering going up to 3.

What do you guys think?

I know it's a race but I seem to always be on the losing end of the race.

[Djehuti]

So I played again last night went 3-1.

My overall record with the deck against burn is 0-3 and 2-6 in games. :-(

I currently play 1 chalice in the side and considering going up to 3.

What do you guys think?

I know it's a race but I seem to always be on the losing end of the race.

I don't like chalice in this matchup since gamble and crop rotation have alot of value and i'd rather not turn them off. Plus the scariest spell is price of progress, and they'll bring in smash to smithereens for your chalices anyways. I've brought in spheres before and didn't feel strongly either way about it.

For a local meta where you're expecting burn, you could add 1x zuran orb in the sb (Hopefully it doesn't get smashed).
Its another line to gamble for if Fast witch or chasm loop aren't optimal.

Burn is a combo deck, you bring in extra depths if you have them to maximize the chances of an early kill.

Be careful about going into chasm lock, all it takes is one opening for burn to kill you at instant speed. you may not be able to exit the loop to swing with lage if your life total is too low so you need to keep some number of punishing fire in the deck to kill them with your chasm in play. Sulfuric vortex turns off grove, you'll need some number of enchantment destruction effects between Abrupt decay and Kgrip. Loaming will demolish your library so you need to close quickly with PF to avoid decking yourself. Speaking of decking: kill goblin guide on sight, even though chasm stops the damage the attack triggers add up and you'll have fewer turns to dredge to maintain chasm lock.

Mulligan aggressively and keep your fingers crossed that its good enough.
Other than that, there's not much else to say that Dice hasn't already said in the primer. Good Luck

Edit: all of your kgrips and AD should come in anyway. between eidolon, pyrostatic pillar, ensnaring bridge, pithing needle, and sulfuric vortex, there is no shortage of targets.

[CovenantElite30]

I don't like chalice in this matchup since gamble and crop rotation have alot of value and i'd rather not turn them off. Plus the scariest spell is price of progress, and they'll bring in smash to smithereens for your chalices anyways. I've brought in spheres before and didn't feel strongly either way about it.

For a local meta where you're expecting burn, you could add 1x zuran orb in the sb (Hopefully it doesn't get smashed).
Its another line to gamble for if Fast witch or chasm loop aren't optimal.

Burn is a combo deck, you bring in extra depths if you have them to maximize the chances of an early kill.

Be careful about going into chasm lock, all it takes is one opening for burn to kill you at instant speed. you may not be able to exit the loop to swing with lage if your life total is too low so you need to keep some number of punishing fire in the deck to kill them with your chasm in play. Sulfuric vortex turns off grove, you'll need some number of enchantment destruction effects between Abrupt decay and Kgrip. Loaming will demolish your library so you need to close quickly with PF to avoid decking yourself. Speaking of decking: kill goblin guide on sight, even though chasm stops the damage the attack triggers add up and you'll have fewer turns to dredge to maintain chasm lock.

Mulligan aggressively and keep your fingers crossed that its good enough.
Other than that, there's not much else to say that Dice hasn't already said in the primer. Good Luck

Edit: all of your kgrips and AD should come in anyway. between eidolon, pyrostatic pillar, ensnaring bridge, pithing needle, and sulfuric vortex, there is no shortage of targets.

Thanks for the advice!

My current sideboard is 3 Bobs, 2 Sphere of Resistance, 2 Choke, 2 Krosan Grip, 1 Prime Time, 1 Karakas, 1 Dark Depths, 1 Ancient Grudge, 1 Chalice of the Void, 1 Zuran Orb.

Against burn I brought in 3 Bobs, 2 Grip, 1 Depths, 1 Grudge, 1 Chalice, 1 Orb.

Maybe that is not the correct sideboard plan?

[Admiral Nobeard]

A couple of questions: I finally have time to play again and I see that people are adding black to the mix; does this open the viability of playing Cabal Pit? Also, how many Bobs is best to run, and would it be a good idea to run them mainboard, liek 4C Loam does?

[Layalouhamesh]

I personally went 3-0 against three burns in a recent tournament I attended. I had 4 chalices sb, and casting it on turn 1 brought me a free victory! (I think 4 is too much however)

To my mind, apart from chalice, there are two plans that can lead to victory agians burn:
1°) Uber-fast Marit Lage.
2°) Assemble a chasm lock, and kill it with recurring punishing fires so that you never break the lock to attack with Marit Lage.

In any case, remember that making a token will prevent you from taking 4 damage in case of a PoP

[barcode]

A couple of questions: I finally have time to play again and I see that people are adding black to the mix; does this open the viability of playing Cabal Pit? Also, how many Bobs is best to run, and would it be a good idea to run them mainboard, liek 4C Loam does?

Before Lands players remembered that Punishing Fire existed we used Cabal Pit. Punishing Fire is more versatile.

[Admiral Nobeard]

Before Lands players remembered that Punishing Fire existed we used Cabal Pit. Punishing Fire is more versatile.

But why do the Jund Lands run Molten Vortex over P-Fire? Every match I'm seeing now with black is using the enchantment instead of the Fire. Is it because it comes down earlier and is a permanent instead of an instant?

[filln]

But why do the Jund Lands run Molten Vortex over P-Fire? Every match I'm seeing now with black is using the enchantment instead of the Fire. Is it because it comes down earlier and is a permanent instead of an instant?

Has some benefits over P-Fire, besides the ones you mentioned it's also slightly less graveyard dependent, less clunky to recur, and perhaps more importantly allows you to cut Grove of the Burnwillows to free up space. That being said, some players have already gone back to the Grove/P-Fire combo even in the black splash builds.

[Djehuti]

Thanks for the advice!

My current sideboard is 3 Bobs, 2 Sphere of Resistance, 2 Choke, 2 Krosan Grip, 1 Prime Time, 1 Karakas, 1 Dark Depths, 1 Ancient Grudge, 1 Chalice of the Void, 1 Zuran Orb.

Against burn I brought in 3 Bobs, 2 Grip, 1 Depths, 1 Grudge, 1 Chalice, 1 Orb.

Maybe that is not the correct sideboard plan?

Grip, Depths, and orb are solid.
Chalice is a wash for me, feel free to keep it in if you like it.
Without knowing an opponent's sideboard plan, you can keep ancient grudge out game 2. If you see artifacts that need to be answered and still win G2, you can bring it in G3.
Bob is weird since he makes you lose life but he can eat an attack or a removal spell. I'd also opt not to play him because the black color requirement may force you to fetch a bayou instead of basic forest which could be the 2 damage from price of progress that kills you.

[Admiral Nobeard]

Has some benefits over P-Fire, besides the ones you mentioned it's also slightly less graveyard dependent, less clunky to recur, and perhaps more importantly allows you to cut Grove of the Burnwillows to free up space. That being said, some players have already gone back to the Grove/P-Fire combo even in the black splash builds.

Why did they go back? And would running both be an option to possibly cut down on the hate of both? Or would it reduce the chances of getting either combo online?

[Dice_Box]

I went back. In short I run a single Bayou main and have access to Black in the side. I feel like if your going to run Black, that's the way to do it.

My side right now is:
3 Decay
2 Grip
2 Dark Confident
4 Thoughtseize
4 Sphere of Resistance

I find its decent, sadly I have no space for Karakas. That of late has not been an issue locally.

[Guardian Beast]

I recently went X-2 at scg mke. I played stock rg main deck list. Karakas main, bog main. No Urborg, no rift stone portal. Never missed the cards. Deck felt pretty good. One of my losses involved getting turn one comboed, and then mulling into oblivion. The other involved not finding a mana source over 4 turns with diamond in hand.

I sb'd:
4 cotv (amazing)
3 sphere of resistence (ok)
1 molten vortex (good)
3 Krosan grip (amazing, wouldn't play less)
2 Pithing needle (good, wouldn't cut it)
2 warping wail (basically just another removal spell, high hopes but not thrilled with it)

I wouldn't really consider replacing p fire with vortex, simply because fow and daze are real cards, and p fire doesn't care about them. I would consider playing a second vortext in the sb though.

I'm all about the 4 cotv sb. If you don't play it turn one against storm ur dead or it's getting duressed. 2 balls help buy you time against storm, but you need something else going on. Against burn the cotv comes in, but it often gets smashed to smithereens. They also have a variety of casting costs honestly. I just like to try and close that match out asap.

I've played al lt of miracles for years personally, and relied on that experience to snake out a win in that match up. Needle is great there if you wanted more I'd sb some chokes or more needles. Awkward I know.


Everyone probably already knows this who posts here regularly. But the most important skill for playing the deck is knowing when to stop dredging Loam and just draw off the top.

Was looking at black lists, and I'm just not sold yet.

[Chatto]

I went back. In short I run a single Bayou main and have access to Black in the side. I feel like if your going to run Black, that's the way to do it.

My side right now is:
3 Decay
2 Grip
2 Dark Confident
4 Thoughtseize
4 Sphere of Resistance

I find its decent, sadly I have no space for Karakas. That of late has not been an issue locally.

What does your manabase look like? I don't feel comfortable without Karakas in the SB.

I recently went X-2 at scg mke. I played stock rg main deck list. Karakas main, bog main. No Urborg, no rift stone portal. Never missed the cards. Deck felt pretty good. One of my losses involved getting turn one comboed, and then mulling into oblivion. The other involved not finding a mana source over 4 turns with diamond in hand.

(...)

Everyone probably already knows this who posts here regularly. But the most important skill for playing the deck is knowing when to stop dredging Loam and just draw off the top.

Hi GB, and welcome! Congrats on your result. I highlighted your remark, because it is rarely brought up, and yet is indeed an important aspect of playing this deck.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

What does your manabase look like? I don't feel comfortable without Karakas in the SB.

What are you bouncing with Karakas honestly? Most legendary creatures you could bounce either die to punishing fire (Thalia, Clique, Venser) or the damage is already done (again Clique but Griselbrand as well), if you're expecting reanimator, it's alright, but Tidespout Tyrant is still the problem in that MU (and Bog is generally better anyways).

[Chatto]

What are you bouncing with Karakas honestly? Most legendary creatures you could bounce either die to punishing fire (Thalia, Clique, Venser) or the damage is already done (again Clique but Griselbrand as well), if you're expecting reanimator, it's alright, but Tidespout Tyrant is still the problem in that MU (and Bog is generally better anyways).

Well, it has won me MU's by doing exactly what you describe. I know it is not as good as it used to be, and maybe I should drop it. Call me old-fashioned, because I know I am

I've been tinkering on several Black Splash-builds, with one Bayou main. Still, I feel like I want a second Bayou, but I have come to the conclusion that it would mean diluting the manabase too much. Perhaps Karakas should make room for a Bayou in the SB.

[fluuu]

Can someone post The standard rgb list?

[Dice_Box]

When we have one, I will. Right now there is no hard and fast list.

Will post my 60 when I am free.