Against D&T you want as many colored sources as possible, they're going to Wasteland you and Port you, and since the Port's will really screw up your basics, you might as well just go all in on non basics. It's rare they have more than 1 early Wasteland.Originally Posted by Echelon
Against Delver I disagree though because Wastelands in hand are something they won't be able to play and will instead Brainstorm away. It really screws up their denial plan.
Anyways for the math, if you're on 7 cards it's 77.1% with 11 basic Forests and 73.5% with 10. I try to always be above 75%, ideally I would like another source of a basic Forest and I've messed with the idea of a Misty Rainforest as my 9th Fetch, but I always change my mind because fetching the other basics is important too.
The other part of the argument though is that when you're topping out at 3, Phyrexian Tower offers a smaller benefit. The best thing it does for me is accelerate me to 4 mana to GSZ a Tracker, or an Eternal Witness to get back the Explorer and accelerate again next turn.
Or allow you to drop Deed through a Daze on T2, severly slowing down your opponents board development. Or have nut turns of GSZ for another VetEx, cast double Cabal Therapy and still have mana left to do stuff.
I'm a very greedy bastard in that regard.
I think 2 forests are indeed fine. I play two as well and was never short on basics.
I play 2/2/2 but have more b spells in general.
If you replace courser with batterskull your xgg spells are reduced to 1 as well.
just consider it during your tournament if u really need the third basis, curious to hear the results.
good luck.
I used to run 2/2/2, then for awhile I was on 3/2/2 but then I fell in love with Volraths and went to 3/2/1. When Sigarda was 100% in the deck it was 2 Plains/1 Swamp, but I'm not sure now. With the configuration I have now 2 Swamps look to be better game 1, although my SB options make 2 Plains better. If I don't like Tower with the plan of topping out at 3 I may consider going back to 3/2/2, though I love the Tower/Vet combo with a Tracker on board so maybe not.
The only reason you need two plains is realistically Sigarda. If you're not running her, you could cut down to a single plains if you wanted.
I'm in love with 3/2/2, not only due to Summer playability, but how it's run in the past. If you needed to, cutting to 2/2/2 isn't awful.
I currently run 2/2/1, cutting a Plains. I use the extra slot for a Karakas. I haven't had any trouble with it really, since Sigarda isn't a super important card against Wasteland decks and often gets boarded out there. I recognise that it makes me weaker to Lands since its harder to hold up Path against Wastelands + Ports + Loam, but if I'm getting in that sort of situation I'm probably screwed anyway so I try not to worry about it - and Karakas is relevant there although Waste-able, which helps. I do aim Surgical at Waste reasonably frequently.
Short report, pretty disappointing results with SFM. The meta just wasn't favorable this week, in my 4 rounds I played against MUD, Lands, Dredge, and Reanimator. Well, I would have played against Reanimator, I was so disappointed with those pairings that I just left early.
I considered that as well but I simply think that u need 6 basics if u run the full set of explorers. often we have to fetch for basics because of wastelands and fetching two basics early stops u using explorer twice. depending on the build we have no way to tutor for karakas which means u might end up with one plain only whereas u need it for many spells.
I play 2/2/2 plus karakas, but I have 3 sfm, sigarda and at least one xww pw main.
You shouldn't be playing a certain number of basics just b/c you run a certain number of Explorers, you should play a certain number of basics b/c that's what you need to execute your gameplan.
If you don't cast cards >4 CMC, you could work off 5 basics regardless of the number of Vet Ex you're running. If you plan to cast cards >5 CMC, you need 6 or more. If you mean to cast Sigarda you need 2 Plains, regardless of whether you run 3 or 4 Vet Ex (and so on and so on).
Thinking you should run 6 basics b/c you run 4 Veteran Explorers is just wrong. As long as you have enough to allow you to execute your gameplan you're fine. So what if an Explorer doesn't get you 2 lands? That means that you already have a certain number of lands on the board (and/or in your hand). This means that in the worst case scenario your Explorers either become library shufflers for your Top/Courser or a body to carry your equipment (if you play any). You should be fine with that.
but isn't it just better if the explorer can give u two lands instead of one/zero? pushing your tracker/clue/ca synergy. more lands means that u can do more things.
you are right that a low curve doesn't need that many lands but u can still use it to equip, truths, top, clue etc..
if your explorer doesn't get you two lands means that u have 4 basics max (considering u fetched basics only) which is not enough in my opinion. u want to play sfm, equip, pte, top etc..
maybe it's just me because my build still contains rhino and sigarda etc hence I need at least 6 basics just to avoid the wasteland issue which got me several times already.
I am just sharing my experience I have with this deck-
I run 6 too, but not b/c I play 4 Veteran Explorers. I run 6 b/c I need them to cast my stuff. The synergy with Tracker is mostly just a happy coincidence.
Hi!
A little report from my tuesday local tournament. 16 players, 4 rounds. I finish with 2/1/1.
As you can see, I made a full use of the previous advices of yours.
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Bayou
2 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Forest
3 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Chromanticore
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Eternal Witness
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Academy Rector
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Eldrazi Conscription
2 Faith's Fetters
2 Dead Weight
2 Starfield of Nyx
2 Sterling Grove
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Curse of Death's Hold
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Humility
SB: 1 Aura Shards
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
Round 1 Shardless BUG (splash W) 1-0
Dead weight works well on DRS, Faith's Fetter on Lili/Big crea and deed in complement. Cabal and Lili cleared the way to rector into Starfield.
I have the board and see no way to him to come back. So I let him dig his grave. Ultimately I rector a Eldrazi Conscription for the win. 7 min in the round for game 2.
Side: + 1 Leyline of sanctity + Aura Shards + Spirit of the labyrinth - Eldrazi Conscription - Chromanticore - 1 Eidolon of blossom
Spirit is obvious against Ancestral/brainstorm/Jace. This coming, I choose to get back one of my eidolons.
Eldrazi Conscription get down, because I lost it's secret effect and didn't really need that heavy spell there.
Chromanticore could have stayed in, but had to choose quickly.
I put a leyline in order to protect me against an eventual planeswalker ultimate. Lukily, I drew it in my opening hand.
The game 2 was going in my favor, but clock stopped the round.
Round 2 Painter 1/1/1
Cabal and deed put me in a good condition. Starfield settle things and gave me the first.
Side: - Chromanticore (cause blue) + Aura Shard - 2 Faith's fetters + 2 Leyline
On the second one, I don't remember it well, but it was a fast combo. I think I was in mana death?
The third, I was ahead with Liliana and aura shard at least on the board (I think Starfield or Solid grove too). My opponnent had no more card in hand and a cleared board. But time's up.
Round 3 BUG control 2/0
a bit like the first round
Round 4 Storm 0/2
the first one was lost in advance, just had to hope him to fizzle.
Side: + Spirit + 4 Leyline + 4 extirpate/surgical - 2 dead weigt -2 Faith's Fetters - Chromanticore - Doomwake giant - Starfield - 2 Eidolon
I greedily kept a hand with 1 land, 2 top, 2 surgical and a cabal. Don't remember the last one. I should have be hunting the Leylines.
I miss a blind cabal on Brainstorm, see I. tutor, Dark petition, LED, Probe and cabal + lands. Probe and cabal... It already destroyed me at the first...
So I surgical his prob in response to his cabal (getting a new one he just draw). He named top.
Then during 2 or 3 turn I get my lands, but he played Ad Nauseam successfully. He had dark ritual, LED, both tutor and 3 brainstorm at grave. He got 3 dark ritual, Past in flame, 2 LED, brainstorm and 2 Lotus petal on Ad Nau. So when he plays LED I surgical dark ritual, but he already have enought to go on (2 different tutor, 2 different sources of choice colored mana).
My notes:
Eidolon of blossom are really great no that I play MD both 2 starfield and 2 Solid grove. They are better than Tireless in this list, distributing a good amount of CA ready to use because I don't pay for it.
So, Aura shards didn't was as good as expected. Too many conditions to get full use of it. I chose it to have a new response to needle. I will try Seal of Primordium instead and change one Faith's fetters to one oblivion ring.
I will put back the forth Leyline of sanctity in side too. Probably cut one humility to it.
Shouldn't MUD and dredge be fine, though?
Last time I played I faced tin fins in the last round. Game 1 he plays faithless looting discarding gris and iona... i therapy naming exhume (i didn't know what he was on). He shows 2 reanimates and a shallow grave and hits me for 22 next turn. I win game 2... and then game 3 he kills me before I get a turn, through both force and invasive surgery
I don't really think MUD is a good mu for us. Dredge, as it always can be, is a coin toss because it depends on their opener and how fast they can attack. Builds with maindeck DRS and Ooze do even have a chance to fight G1.Shouldn't MUD and dredge be fine, though?
Last time I played I faced tin fins in the last round. Game 1 he plays faithless looting discarding gris and iona... i therapy naming exhume (i didn't know what he was on). He shows 2 reanimates and a shallow grave and hits me for 22 next turn. I win game 2... and then game 3 he kills me before I get a turn, through both force and invasive surgery
As long as you have no proper board, dredge will win before you play your second land.Shouldn't MUD and dredge be fine, though?
Last time I played I faced tin fins in the last round. Game 1 he plays faithless looting discarding gris and iona... i therapy naming exhume (i didn't know what he was on). He shows 2 reanimates and a shallow grave and hits me for 22 next turn. I win game 2... and then game 3 he kills me before I get a turn, through both force and invasive surgery
"You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"
Dredge can go either way, you need to see the right cards. Metalworker decks require lots of removal, which I simply didn't have, the guy who was on it is always on it. A couple weeks ago we played several games too and I only won 1 in 5 or so. It's probably a sign that I need more interaction in general.Shouldn't MUD and dredge be fine, though?
Last time I played I faced tin fins in the last round. Game 1 he plays faithless looting discarding gris and iona... i therapy naming exhume (i didn't know what he was on). He shows 2 reanimates and a shallow grave and hits me for 22 next turn. I win game 2... and then game 3 he kills me before I get a turn, through both force and invasive surgery
I think nic fit is better than most decks against dredge because we run so many sac effects, pernicious deed is actually quite good, and DRS even better. I will lose g1 but 2 & 3 i think I'm favored.
MUD seems to dump its hand, have only one or two real threats, and since they can usually be removed they just sit there until i find a deed and blow up all their mana. I do run Jace, force, strix etc so maybe the blue version is more favored. I will say that if they resolve an ugin, i just lose.
Hey, I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. Nic Fit is the deck I've been building and testing for the past yearish and my version has gone through many iterations. The current list right now is this and I'm kind of looking to get some feedback on it. Some of the choices that may seem strange are entirely budgetary constrains and card availability concerns (for instance: the mish mash of fetchlands).
Lands
3x Windswept Heath
1x Marsh Flats
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Verdent Catacombs
1x Polluted Delta
2x Bayou
2x Scrubland
3x Swamp
3x Forest
1x Plains
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Dryad Arbor
Spells by CMC
One (15: 6 creature/9 non-creature)
3x Veteran Explorer
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Thoughtseize
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x Sensei's Divining Top
Two (5: 1 creature/ 4 non-creature)
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Night's Whisper
Three (10: 1 creature/ 9 non creature)
3x Liliana of the Veil
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Eternal Witness
1x Painful Truths
1x Vindicate
1x Maelstrom Pulse
Four (6: 5 creature/ 1 non-creature)
4x Siege Rhino
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
Five (3: 1 creature/ 2 non-creature)
2x Ob Nixilis, Reignited
1x Titania, Protector of Aragoth
Six (1: 1 creature/ 0 non-creature)
1x Grave Titan
Sideboard
2x Duress
2x Pithing Needle
2x Rest in Piece
2x Choke
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Krosan Grip
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Dismember
1x Sylvan Library
1x Thragtusk
1x Golgari Charm
In my local meta I find that the major decks to beat are either Miracles or some variation of Delver (that being said, I have faced aluren, storm, D&T, Shardless, Burn and Sneak and Show with some regularity) This deck is heavy on the planeswalker theme and I am considering trying to fit in a Sorin, Grim Nemesis in the main and an Elspeth, Sun's Champion in the board. It fights really well against miracles and can grind out advantage like a machine. It does require a lot of set up though, leaving me soft to aggressive decks. For instance I find that the R/U delver deck to be the most difficult match up of all the varients and even with 4 siege rhinos I feel like the burn match up is a coin flip.
If anyone has any suggestions or critiques I would love to hear some. I'm in love with this deck, it's my child and I've built it from the ground up (using established versions as guidelines and points of references). The sideboard is a mess. I don't know how to build one that I've been happy with so I would love to hear some feedback on that as well.
Ugin is strong, Steel Hellkite also makes me sad, and I cease to play Magic after a Sundering Titan. Wurmcoil Engine and anything else they might run like Emperion is beatable and Ugin can be prevented but the other two are basically auto win cards.
Nights whisper is not good enough. Truths is way better. Draw 2 is just not a powerful enough effect to actually play a card to do. Just swap that out.
Unless your meta is super miracles/bug decks the 5/6 drops seem like they could be green creatures so that they can double as Gsz targets as well.
3 Drs is too much. I dont mind 1 as a back up to vet and as a utility dude to grab in cases.
Without pfire or some other engine I think 3 lily is too much. We need our land drops and our cards so lily is usually not breaking as much symmetry. I only ever played 2 at most in non fire lists. YMMV.
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