Unfortnately, in my testing, Legend MUD is still pretty weak to DnT.Originally Posted by battousai555
The combination of Revokers (naming mana rocks), Ports, Wastelands, and Thalias do a number on the deck.
The upside to playing Legend MUD over other types of MUD, however, is an even better win percentage against the blue decks. You still lose more often than not to Lands and Death'n'Taxes, but you absolutely CRUSH the fair blue decks, and you CRUSH the combo decks. Whereas regular MUD does *well* against those decks, but can still lose to Terminus+StP, and Legend MUD just doesn't care about spot removal.
Went to GP Santiago side event with a post MUD concoction, focused heavy on mana disruption more than anything, given that I expected lot of eldrazi. lands and blue decks, so I had some differences with most lists:
4 metalworker
4 grim monolith
4 chalice of the void
4 trinisphere
4 sphere of resistance
4 ensnaring bridge
2 crucible of worlds
2 mox diamond
1 staff of domination
1 bottled cloister
1 ghirapur's orrery
1 smokestack
2 ugin
1 karn pw
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 wasteland
3 inventor's fair
1 ghost quarter
1 tabernacle
1 buried ruin
sb:
3 phyrexian revoker
3 lodestone golem
3 wurmcoil engine
3 faerie macabre
2 ratchet bomb
1 spine of ish sah
1st round: Colorless Eldrazi
G1: Lost the die roll. He mulled to 5, which made things easier, I had like turn 3 karn, turn 4 ugin and that's it.
G2: I SB in 3 revokers, 3 golems, 2 bombs and 3 wurmcoils, out 4 chalices, 4 trinispheres, 2 mox diamonds, 1 orrery
He died without permanents, without hand thanks to Karn + Smokestack
1-0 (2-0)
2nd round: Colorless Eldrazi
G1: Lost die roll again. I died to 2 endbringers pinging me to deatch after semi-estabilizing with a bridge and gaining some life with inventor's fair and staff.
G2: Same sb as previously, he missed several land drops, wurmcoil engine did the rest
G3: I wastelanded all their lands, and dropped tabernacle and he with 4 creatures in play, me with Karn, gg
2-0 (4-1)
3rd round: Dark Maverick
G1: Lost die roll 3rd time in a row. He mulled to 4, spheres saved the game as he couldn't find the 4th land.
G2: SB out 2 mox diamonds, 4 trinisphere, staff, orrery, cloister and smokestack, in the same beaters as before.
He quickly dispatched me with thalia 1.0 and pridemage. Nothing to do really.
G3: Very close match. He had 2 giant kotrs in play (6/6 or 7/7 dont remember), but bridge had me alive there. Couldn't find a wasteland to destroy his cradle, which actually won him the match, at the last critical turn, he found a Krosan Grip (I was like "people still play this card in 2016"), and died to KotRs.
2-1 (5-3)
4rd round: Elves
G1: Won the die roll finally. Chalice @ 1 + Tabernacle and going to G2.
G2: I started with chalice, 2 cloudpost, 1 glimmerpost, 2 bridges and trinisphere.
He mulled to 6. Went T1 thoughtseize (out trinisphere). T2 chalice meets abrupt decay. I dropped my hand by turn 3, ready to cast Ugin I just drew next turn to finish the game, he topdecked another thoughtseize (bye Ugin). Drew revoker naming symbiote, topdecked GSZ for reclamation sage, drew second revoker to stop him killing my board with symbiote combo, naturally drew a second sage!! And lost shortly after that after he casted a symbiote.
G3: I was still in shock after his consecutive amount of top decks last game. Kept a bad hand that could end in a Metalworker + Staff combo on T4, but decay and NO ended things quickly.
2-2 (6-5)
In general, as my other experimentations with MUD, when the deck goes fluent everything is perfect, but can be difficult to overcome an early disadvantage (Thalia 1.0, several abrupt decays + wastelands).
Some notes about deck choices:
- I hated Mox Diamonds, never drew them, never missed them.
- Metalworkers underperformed (everybody plays creature removal), Grim Monoliths overperformed as expected, as abrupt decays and stps were reserved to spheres, chalices and MWs.
- Ratchet bomb was my best SB card, by far.
- Bridges MD felt amazing, decks like eldrazi or some variants of Delver and Miracles doesn't have an answer on G1.
- Post manabase allows you to go big with sphere effects, during testing Golem + Sphere wins a lot of games.
- Never had Orrery + Cloister together, both felt clunky when I drew them separately, specially orrery.
- The single smokestack was nice, specially along with the post manabase (recurring glimmerpost gained 3-4 life a turn), which helped stabilizing when facing uncontested DRSs.
- Buried Ruin is too cute, will be cut in favour of 1-2 Vesuvas (taking out a city of traitors too).
- The post manabase allows you to spend your extra mana on Inventor's Fair.
- Will possibly move spheres to the SB, and include some number of Warping Wails to answer opposing DRSs and Thalias, which are my biggest concerns. Mox diamonds will be replaced by 1 Ugin or 1 Karn.
- Staff is also cute, but at least is a mana sink and has several uses.
- Really missed a tutor, but Kuldotha wasn't an option as I saw that all lock pieces were useful to stabilize the board on G1s (which I had a large win %).
- I'm not sure if playing 4 TKS + 4 Golems, or 4 Spheres + 4 Golems in SB games. At the time, I didn't have TKS so they weren't an option.
- Tabernacle wins games (a friend lent me one for the tournament), actually made me think I will have to buy one -.- It gave the deck another power level.
- What do you think in including 2-3 Smuggler's Copter and Revokers MD? Card seems really good in MUD Stompy variants, can fly over Moat, loots, easy to crew.
Last edited by massd; 11-06-2016 at 11:07 AM.
Thanks for your report!
I have a question, only playing 1 Bottled Cloister could lead to an "opening" in Ensnaring Bridge for the opponent, didn't you face that problem during some matches? I'm asking because it happened to me quite often, being stuck with some big dudes in hand (after being hit by wasteland for instance)
Cheers, Battousai and MGB. Interesting to hear the split perspectives. I goldfished the deck and felt like Revoker & co would demolish all its activated abilities, and that it wasn't much safer from Wasteland & Port. I might still try it out, but I'm more inclined to maybe just toss 1-2 Dynamos in regular MUD and see what happens.
@Massd: thanks for posting! It's cool to see people gravitating more stax-y builds lately. I wouldn't think that's the right deck for Smuggler's Copter, but I guess they'd make your Metalworkers more versatile in the lategame.
@airwave
I didn't face that problem, but I was thinking about getting wasteland locked against loam decks during preparation (played a lot against a lands decks o a friend) and tried to had the lowest possible curve, so I could easily cast every card drawn. I didn't want to play additional copies of cloister, even if it is really good when no disrupted, because if I had a 5-6 card hand during midgame, it was highly possible that one of my very few win conditions was there (and I couldn't cast it before because of mana) and could be randomly destroyed by a rec.sage, pridemage or pulse.
I saw that one guy playing on the tournament playing a dedicated Stax deck suffering the situation you described when playing against a colorless eldrazi deck, and both players had crucible in play (the difference was made because the stax player had 3 revokers, 2 on mw and 1 on monolith). He ended with a useless bridge and like 6 cards in hand.
If going full PWs style (daretti, karn, ugin), would you recommend ramping with grim monolith + basalt monolith, or grim monolith + thran dynamo?? What would be the ideal number of voltaic keys to play?
I still think, however, that Legend MUD is still the best MUD variant you can play at this moment.
The fact that you crush blue decks better than any other MUD variant with Legend MUD is the selling point to me. Over the course of a long tournament, if you dodge Lands/DnT enough, that should be good enough to get you close to undefeated. Whereas with other MUDs, you have a higher chance of losing to favorable matchups like Miracles or Stoneblade.
Hi everyone,
I played MUD today at a legacy tournament in Eindhoven (40 people).
This is the list I used:
4 Metalworker
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Karn Liberated
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Bottled Cloister
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Staff of Domination
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Grim Monolith
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Wasteland
2 Vesuva
1 Mishra's Factory
2 Inventors' Fair
Quite controllish as you can see. I went 3-3, little disappointing, but hey that's how things go sometimes...
Match 1 - Dredge
Played against Dredge, didn't expect this one so I was in bad shape, since I didn't bring any gravehate with me...
Game 1: Not entirely sure here but I think I played a Ratched Bomb and a Bottled Cloister before he overwhelmed me with creatures, as dredge does.
Game 2: I kept a mediocre hand and went okayish with Staff, Ratched Bomb and a Wasteland on my part I think. He took control of the game and was about to finish me when I topdecked an Ensnaring Bridge with other cards in hand left. He immediately scooped as he had no answer to it.
Game 3: I kept a hand with two wastelands. He starts with a turn 1 Cabal Therapy naming Grafdigger's Cage (which missed obviously). I wasted him twice hoping to lock him out of the game since there was still no dredge creature in the grave on turn 3 and he already had mulled to 6. But unfortunately he played yet another land followed by a breakthrough that filled the graveyard with many creatures, bridges, etc. I couldn't find an Ensnaring Bridge and lacked mana to activate Inventor's Fair and play the Bridge in time so that was it.
(1-2) -> 0-1
Match 2 - Merfolk
Game 1: I won the die roll, kept my 7 and then opened with Tomb, Monolith, Trinisphere. Quite nice. He read Trinisphere a few times and then decided to pass the turn two times after playing an Island. I played Metalworker turn 2 and then Ugin on turn 4 I think, that was game.
Game 2: Kept a hand with two Revokers, one of which shut down his turn 1 Vial (other one gets Forced). Turn later I played Trinisphere which meets another Force. After that I played Metalworker followed by a Steel Hellkite and since he was out of Forces this time it's gg.
(2-0) -> 1-1
Match 3 - NicFit
Game 1: I played against a good friend of me this round so we knew each other's decks quite well. I landed a Ugin on turn 3 after a Grim Monolith on turn 1 or 2, which sealed the game.
Game 2: This one didn't go so well after he hits me with Therapy and sacs Veteran Explorer to search for a nice land advantage. Creatures and Llliana (killing my workers and revokers) seal the deal.
Game 3: I kept my 7 and opened with Tomb, Chalice on 1. Feeling good about this since he has lots of one drops and now my hand should be save for Therapy at last. I draw two Ugin and get stuck at 7 mana, he then Vindicated my land, and killed all my board pieces one by one with two Abrupt Decay, another Vindicate that came back from the grave and a Krosan Grip. After all this destructive force he plays Gaddock Teeg to make matters even worse. I played two Bridges after that which could hold him off for some time, but when he keeps activating Deathrite Shaman for life loss, I'm dead a few turns later.
(1-2) -> 1-2
Match 4 - MoonBridge homebrew
Game 1: Lost the die roll and he starts with Vault of Whispers, Mox Opal and then Inquisition of Kozilek. I assumed he was on affinity and he would discard my Bridge but he chose Staff instead. I played cloudpost and passed, he played Great Furnace and passed, I played Glimmerpost and played Bridge. He then played a red/black budget dual and also played Bridge which amazes me of course
I played City of Traitors and Cloister, pass. He plays Blood Moon, woops, didn't see that one coming. The game goes on for quite some time, he put a Needle in play on Ugin (which he saw with Inquisition), puts two Magus of the Moon and two Blood Moons in play and two Hangarback Walkers that grew to 14 or something. Meanwhile I played a Trinisphere, two Chalices (1 and 2), two more Bridges and one more Cloister. I think I had 13 "mountains" in play by then as well. Quite the board! He then plays the new Daretti planeswalker and starts to hit my Artifacts one by one. After losing both Chalices, both Bridges and a Ratchet Bomb, I finally drew the only answer in my deck left (I think): Karn. Karn hits Needle which awakens Ugin that sweeps his board with -3. The only things left were one opal and the two Walkers. Since my mountains turn to cloudpost now I think I produced around 40 mana to go crazy with Staff and played Steel Hellkite. He has no answers next turn a my Steel Hellkite hits for around 35 damage....
Game 2: Quite exhausted I was after this match, he starts with Welder and next turn opal, Daretti which puts me in a bad spot. A few turns later (after him meddling with my artifacts due to Welder) I scooped since time was an issue after the first looong match.
Game 3: I started with Chalice on 1 and quickly had Metalworker Staff combo which goes infinite just before judges call time, he scoops.
(2-1) -> 2-2
Match 5 - Dredge
Game 1: I won the die roll and kept my 7, he mulled to 5, had quite a difficult decision here. I think my hand was Glimmerpost, Traitors, Vesuva, Grim, Trini, Staff, Ugin. When I kept my 7 my plan was to play Traitors immediately with Grim and Trini for a backbreaking start. Since he mulled to five I didn't want to take this risk a started with glimmerpost and passed. He starts with Lion's Eye Diamond (...) and (thank god) passed. I played Traitors and Trinisphere and passed. He grumbled and played a land I think. I played Grim and followed with Ugin a few turns later as he gets nowhere, game.
Game 2: Regretting very much my at-home gravehate I side in some Revokers and start again. He mulls to 5 again and has trouble finding the right cards I think. He starts with gemstone, faithless and put a dredger in. I start with Tomb, Chalice at 1, and a Chalice at 0. He dredges somethings a gets a Narcomoeba which he sacs to Therapy, I tap at Chalice and counter it. He gets two Zombies. I then got rid of the zombies with Ratched Bomb a few turns later, also killing my Chalices. I can't find anything after that and lose.
Game 3: I kept my 7 and started with chalice I think. He had mulled again and decides to play nothing and waits for discard. I played metalworker and next turn Steel Hellkite which destroys zombies over and over again. He hits some damage but it's too late, hellkite beats him to dead with metalworker pumping.
(2-1) -> 3-2
Match 6 - ShardlessBUG
Game 1: Final match, a very small chance on getting top 8, but top 16 gets paid as well, so at least I'm playing for something still
I lost the die roll and mull a one lander with 7 and 6 cards. On 5, I have zero land and on 4 as well, but since there's a Chalice in it I kept it hoping for a miracle lucky draw against Storm or something like that. He starts with fetch and Deathrite and passes, I draw a Cloudpost, play it and pass. He wasted my cloudpost and played another creatures and I scooped. Probably should have scooped before playing the post to keep him in the dark.
Game 2: I kept a mediocre hand with two land hoping for the best, His turn one is Wasteland that hits and after that he discards two cards and Abrupt Decays the only two plays I could make, so I'm dead meat.
(0-2) -> 3-3
I prepared mostly for Miracles, Show and Tell, Lands and Eldrazi but didn't get paired with them at all!
Not sure what I'll play next time, I still think this list has quite a good matchup against the top decks but didn't see it in action, maybe next time....
Someone can share a "stock" list of Legend MUD?
Wanna try a bit !
Thanks!
Hey Everyone,
I played in the same tournament as in Eindhoven as Airwave.
This is the list I played:
4 Metalworker
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Wurmcoil engine
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperor
1 Steel Hellkite
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Staff of Dominion
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Coercive Portal
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 City of Traitors
2 Vesuva
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Inventors’ Fair
I added the Inventors’ Fair to the deck that morning because I really wanted to try it out. I switched out a City, mostly because I have been wanting to cut back to 3 Cities for a while. There’s no worse feeling to draw 2 in your opener with no other land.
I went 4-2. Quite ok, but I know where I went wrong. So that’ll help for the next time.
Won from: burn, miracles, merfolk, affinity.
Lost to U/R both times, where the first one was a Thing in the Ice build that wrecked me with Thing both games. The second one was a more straightforward Delver list. I lost because of not thinking about Price of Progress and having taken too much damage from my Tomb (took at least 8 damage from my Tombs up by turn 3) so he could go “eot Smash to Smithereens followed up by a Price for the exact amount.
Biggest win was against Burn. Going Chalice on 1 followed up by TKS taking his Price was game. Game 2 was Trinisphere with him not drawing a 3rd land for 3 or 4 turns.
Best match was against miracles. Way too much fun and game 3 I had Coercive Portal and Trading Post in play. That’s when know you why people play blue decks, all that card draw is amazing.
Thanks for your list and congratz at making top 16
Hi, i like Legend mud (ulamog, ugin, karn ecc...) send me lists Legend mud... Thanks
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Karakas
3 Vesuva
2 Crystal Vein
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Emrakul, the Promised End
3 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Karn Liberated
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
2 Basalt Monolith
4 Grim Monolith
2 Thran Dynamo
4 Voltaic Key
SB:
2 Coercive Portal
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Wurmcoil Engine
Some SBing Tips:
vs. Grixis Delver:
-3 Karn Liberated
+3 Wurmcoil Engine
vs. Storm:
-2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
+2 Phyrexian Revoker
vs. Miracles:
-4 Thought-Knot Seer
+2 Coercive Portal
+2 Phyrexian Revoker
vs. Death'n'Taxes:
-2 Trinisphere
+2 Phyrexian Revoker
vs. Dredge:
-3 Karn Liberated
-1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
+4 Leyline of the Void
vs. Eldrazi:
-4 Chalice of the Void
-3 Trinisphere
-2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
+4 Ensnaring Bridge
+3 Wurmcoil Engine
+2 Phyrexian Revoker
vs. Stoneblade:
-2 Thought-Knot Seer
+2 Coercive Portal
vs. Reanimator:
-2 Thran Dynamo
-2 Voltaic Key
-2 Basalt Monolith
-2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
+4 Ensnaring Bridge
+4 Leyline of the Void
vs. Sneak'n'Show:
-2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
-2 Basalt Monolith
-2 Voltaic Key
+4 Ensnaring Bridge
+2 Phyrexian Revoker
nice list side vs infect,elf,omnitell,agro loam,jund,burn,bug ?thanks
vs. Infect:
no sbing... just hope chalice @ 1 gets you there =)
vs. Elves:
-2 Voltaic Key
-3 Karn Liberated
+2 Phyrexian Revoker
+3 Wurmcoil Engine
vs. Omnitell:
basically same sb as vs Sneak'n'Show because they are usually the same deck now
vs. Jund/AggroLoam/BUG:
-4 Thought-Knot Seer
-1 Basalt Monolith
+2 Coercive Portal
+3 Wurmcoil Engine
vs. Burn:
-3 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
+3 Wurmcoil Engine
Warping Wail seems good for all the match-ups. Not Burn.
Exile Infect cretures and Elves. Counter Hymn and Show and Tells. Make a dude to be sac for Liliana.
Vs infect no ensnaring bridge?
With Infect, it really doesn't do much as they can attack (as they typically do) before pumping the critter.
Cockatrice: EMFry
Definitely a good card to try out at some point.
Might even be a MD candidate because it kind of contributes to the whole "mana ramp" theme of the deck (EOT Wail, +1 mana next turn, sometimes 1 mana is the difference between being able to cast Ugin/Emrakul/etc and not)
Why no new ulamog main deck? Emrakul new is good?
Ulamog is good but I think Emrakul is better.
Before Emrakul was printed I played 2 Ulamog in that slot... sometimes even when you cast Ulamog you still lose, like vs. Miracles, they can just handle it even if you exile two lands. With Emrakul, you can mess up their hand and turn and make sure that you can win more often, imho.
Kozilek is the best because he draws you more stuff.
The only time I miss Ulamog is when I *absolutely* have to deal with something *that turn*, but 4 Ugin and 3 Karn is usually good enough for that kind of effect.
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