All B/R update speculation.

[Lemnear]

Turn 1, Ancient Tomb into


Turn 2, drop Plains into


Crew the Thopter with the 1/1 and attack. Makes a 3/3 flyer with looting and a 3/3 first Striker on the field

[Barook]

Well, just when Kaladesh pulled me into standard (as a 1994 magic veteran), the ban announcement on smuggler's copter is pulling me out again. I'm sitting on 5 foil copters and a deck that relies heavily on madness triggers. So much for my standard career!


I like this line of play:
t1: Ancient Tomb, Smuggler's Copter
t2: Cavern of Souls, Eldrazi Skyspawner, Crew with Scion token, attack for 3 loot
t3: Eldrazi temple, Reality Smasher, attack for 10 loot

You don't even need to be fancy like that. Even plays like this could have value:

T1: Tomb, Copter
T2: Sol Land, TKS, swing with Copter

Unless you need those creatures for blocking, you can turn them into hasty 3/3 flyers that loot instead of sitting on their ass, summoning-sick.

[Lemnear]

You don't even need to be fancy like that. Even plays like this could have value:

T1: Tomb, Copter
T2: Sol Land, TKS, swing with Copter

Unless you need those creatures for blocking, you can turn them into hasty 3/3 flyers that loot instead of sitting on their ass, summoning-sick.

Completely agree. Its more or less lightning greaves with a looting effect

[Ace/Homebrew]

I've moderately tested Copter.

I mostly like that it lets you 'attack' or 'block' with Magus of the Moon or Phyrexian Revoker in a manner that doesn't potentially kill them with combat damage in a way Jitte would. Plus flying. Plus looting. Plus haste.

[square_two]

I've moderately tested Copter.

I mostly like that it lets you 'attack' or 'block' with Magus of the Moon or Phyrexian Revoker in a manner that doesn't potentially kill them with combat damage in a way Jitte would. Plus flying. Plus looting. Plus haste.

Agreed - love it in my Dragon Stompy list that is heavy with 1/1's. Between Rabblemaster, Magus, Pia, and P&K tokens, it is crewed easily and allows chaff to convert into useful stuff. Glad that some foils will be cheap now.

[Lemnear]

I've moderately tested Copter.

I mostly like that it lets you 'attack' or 'block' with Magus of the Moon or Phyrexian Revoker in a manner that doesn't potentially kill them with combat damage in a way Jitte would. Plus flying. Plus looting. Plus haste.

Are we just discussing a new Painter shell? #excitement

[bruizar]

I'd keep my eyes out for Aethersphere Harvester and Heart of Kiran too. Vehicles are still a new mechanic, so hard to evaluate. Aethersphere Harvester feels like a small Batterskull to me, in that it invalidates 2 lightning bolts and blanks Delver of Secrets, and being able to crew Heart of Kiran with loyalty is probably very nice too because it makes it hard to use sweepers against you (Anyone that has played a lategame Batterskull recast cycle knows what I mean).

[maharis]

Just curious: What happened 1.5 years ago?

Miracles and Elves put a lot of pressure on fair Stoneforge decks. The addition of Eldrazi (specifically TKS) didn't help matters, though that was only about a year ago.

Seemed like every time I stuck a SFM for a while they had TKS the next turn and ripped my equipment.

Re: Copter: I think it's a good card and could play a role in Legacy. Saw one on the board of a match in Louisville, I think out of a Junkblade deck of some kind. The effect is strong, but I think it's more open to blowouts than equipment is. Also, Legacy has Decay and Bolt which will keep it under wraps.

The only reason it had to be banned in standard was because of Wizards' pathetic approach to the standard card pool. Next time Wizards poo-poohs the idea of having Lightning Bolt in standard, I hope they are reminded that two three-toughness creatures were banned. Seriously.... Time Spiral, Tolarian Academy, Memory Jar, Mind over Matter, Skullclamp, Arcbound Ravager, Jace TMS, Stoneforge Mystic... Smuggler's Copter? Reflector Mage?? Come on.

I'd keep my eyes out for Aethersphere Harvester and Heart of Kiran too.

Heart will definitely be tested, but I totally missed Harvester. That has some potential for sure. 3/5 is pretty good. Crewed by YP tokens or DRS (after you cast it turn 2 off DRS). Upside. I see it working.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Are we just discussing a new Painter shell? #excitement

Dragon Stompy
I suspect Painter wouldn't want it because most lists are happy to hide behind Ensnaring Bridge.

Vehicles (versus Equipment) have the potential to get blown out by sweepers, but they are more resilient to spot removal. If I have looter scooter on the board and I cast a creature, I can still crew the vehicle if they target the creature with StP, Bolt, or whatever. If it were a Jitte instead the spot removal would be a time walk.

Heart of Kiran was the only foil card I pre-ordered from Aether Revolt. $30 seemed like a safe bet as I expect it will find a place in Standard or Modern.
My favorite interaction is casting Chandra, Torch of Defiance, using her +1 to add , then casting Heart of Kiran. There's also the potential to untap with a Heart out, cast Koth of the Hammer, use the +1 to make a Mountain a 4/4, crew Heart with the loyalty counter you just added to Koth, and swing for 8 while still having Heart around for blocks on the opponent's turn.

[Darkenslight]

Do these even have a home outside of Standard? Vehicles look like such ass, but tbh I've never played one

IMO, Copter's strong enough to find a home in aggressive decks that lack card-draw. But it definitely sees play in Vintage, Commander and was quite heavily-played in Standard upto that point. But there was a vicious U/W deck that was doing the rounds that could abuse both Reflector Mage and the Looter Scooter.

As for Wizards, this is what happens when you push so hard from having powerful answer cards to having powerful proactive cards.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Hah!

Thug just spiked 250%

[Ronald Deuce]

Bracing for a deck called, "RAAHN! GAOOUU, GET TO DE CHOPPEEER!"

[Dice_Box]

Hah!

Thug just spiked 250%

Saw that coming. It's not good enough. Troll was a win con when Cage was out, that was actually more important than the Dredge number a surprising amount of the time. The deck is not going to recover from losing it. You can resuscitate the deck sure, but life support ain't much of a life.

"Tied to machines that the make me be, cut this life off from me."

[iatee]

I think the deck is not just gonna be fine, it's going to still be tier 1. Prized Amalgam was the thing to ban if you really wanted to kill the deck. This makes the deck a half turn slower maybe, but you're still inevitable g1 vs fair decks and people will probably run slightly less graveyard hate, which is the only thing that really beat the deck.

[Dice_Box]

The issue is the ease that some decks can find that hate. I honestly think Ancient Stirrings will bite the bullet soon.

Cage I don't see going away just yet. If people do put that hate away, I will punch them with Elves.

[iatee]

It's a lot easier for Dredge to squeeze in 8 anti-hate cards in their board than it is for the other decks to play and find their 4 hate cards. Plus you win g1 so often that you can afford to lose a g2.

Yeah I have been on the ban Ancient Stirrings boat for a long time. If that card were blue more people would recognize how busted it is in Modern. The second best cantrip in the format is draw scry 2, this is dig 5 for a draw. It's been the core of countless decks by now.

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

Here is a link to a reddit poll on legacy unbans: https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...s_poll_results

[Whitefaces]

Thanks, Reddit seems like the best place to get a good, unbiased opinion on this.

[Dice_Box]

I needed that laugh.

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

Thanks, Reddit seems like the best place to get a good, unbiased opinion on this.

Yes, like this forum is any better... Seriously though whats wrong with reddit? from what Ive seen their legacy subreddit is much more mature, polite, and intelligent than the manchildren of this forum could ever dream of being.
Edit: Im generalizing here of course but we all know this is true...