[DTB] U/R Delver

[pateuglow]

Nice! Will try and check it out. Will you record it?

Yeah, all my streams are archived on twitch for up to 3 months I think

[CabalTherapy]

I'll be streaming UR Delver tonight on Twitch in the Community Legacy League on MTGO

8:30 EST

www.Twitch.tv/pateuglow

Go with the Guide list.

[pateuglow]

Go with the Guide list.

Monastery Swiftspear and Stormchaser Mage have been too good to me to leave behind.

I will be playing my usual list, with 1 Thunderous Wrath and 1 Fireblast

[CabalTherapy]

Monastery Swiftspear and Stormchaser Mage have been too good to me to leave behind.

I will be playing my usual list, with 1 Thunderous Wrath and 1 Fireblast

4 GGuide
4 Swiftspear
4 Delver
2 Stormchaser

Ok, good luck. 8:30 EST unfortunately is too late for me.

[grendl]

I'm playing the Bazar Of Moxem legacy tournament in Paris this weekend. (all sold out, 450 participants)

I would like some input on my list and sideboard strategy.

It's a stock UR delver list with a slight variation for:
- 2 grim lavamancer main: I like this card over true-name nemesis and bedlam reveler, lavamancer gives extra removal against all the x/1 and x/2 creatures in the format and gives more reach.
- 3 price of progress main: this card is one of the main reasons to play this deck, that's why I play three main and none in the side. If it's good it stays in, if not i board them out.

main 60 cards
_____________

4 delver of secrets
4 monastery swiftspear
1 grim lavamancer
3 stormchaser mage
1 true-name nemesis

4 daze
4 force of will

4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
3 price of progress

4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 gitaxian probe

2 island
2 mountain
3 volcanic island
4 scalding tarn
2 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
1 bloodstained mire

__________________
sideboard 15 cards
__________________
2 pyroblast
2 flusterstorm
2 surgical extraction
1 grafdigger's cage
1 roast
1 dismember
2 smash to smithereens
2 sulfuric vortex
1 electrickery
1 grim lavamancer

other cards I considered:
- vendilion clique
- winter orb
- pithing needle
- null rod
- shattering spree
- dismember
- true-name nemesis
- bedlam reveler

________
miracles
________
- 3 price of progress - they have enough basics
- 2 probe
- 2 chain lightning

+ 2 pyroblast
+ 2 flusterstorm
+ 2 sulfuric vortex (very good against control decks)
+ 1 surgical extraction (target terminus or swords)

_____________
death and taxes
_____________
- 1 daze
- 2 probe
- 1 force
- 1 ponder
- 1 price of progress

+ 1 electrickery
+ 1 grim lavamancer
+ 2 smash to smithereens (vial, equipment)
+ 1 roast
+ 1 sulfuric vortex

_______
eldrazi
_______
- 4 probe - not sure about this, maybe split between 2 probe and 2 chain lightning?

+ 2 smash to smithereens (chalice)
+ 1 roast (against the big eldrazi bodies)
+ 1 dismember

_____________
shardless BUG
_____________
- 4 fow
- 4 probe

+ 2 sulfurix vortex
+ 2 smash to smithereens (baleful strix, shardless agent)
+ 2 pyroblast (baleful strix, shardless agent, blue spells)
+ 1 roast (tarmogoyf)
+ 1 dismember

______
infect
______
- 4 probe

+ 1 electrickery
+ 1 grim lavamancer
+ 2 flusterstorm

_________
reanimator
_________
- 3 price of progress (they usually have only 2-3 lands in play)
- 2 probe

+ 2 surgical extraction
+ 1 grafdigger's cage
+ 2 flusterstorm

_____
elves
_____

- 3 price of progress

+ 1 electrickery
+ 1 grim lavamancer
+ 1 grafdigger's cage

______________
sneak and show
______________

- 1 probe
- 1 price of progress
- 2 chain lightning

+ 2 flusterstorm
+ 2 pyroblast

_____________
grixis delver
_____________
- 4 fow
- 2 probe

+ 2 pyroblast
+ 2 electrickery
+ 2 roast

___________
storm combo
___________
- 3 price of progress
- 1 ponder
- 2 probe

+ 2 pyroblast
+ 2 flusterstorm
+ 2 surgical extraction

[TheManWithaPlan]

I'm playing the Bazar Of Moxem legacy tournament in Paris this weekend. (all sold out, 450 participants)

I would like some input on my list and sideboard strategy.

It's a stock UR delver list with a slight variation for:
- 2 grim lavamancer main: I like this card over true-name nemesis and bedlam reveler, lavamancer gives extra removal against all the x/1 and x/2 creatures in the format and gives more reach.
- 3 price of progress main: this card is one of the main reasons to play this deck, that's why I play three main and none in the side. If it's good it stays in, if not i board them out.

List
_____________

Sideboarding
_____________

Looking at your list I feel like you do want a little more top end. I feel like you may want to move a Grim Lavamancer to the sideboard to put a True-Name Nemesis into the mainboard. I am not quite sure how I feel about 3 Price of Progress main, but I think it's fine. If you find the 3rd one to be not great, then I would replace it with a Fireblast.

As for the sideboard, I don't really like Roast when you could just pay for Dismember. Also Submerge is pretty good in most of the same matchups that Roast is good in. I would definitely try a Bedlam Reveler out to be able to grind better. I could also suggest Rough/Tumble over Electrickery in the sideboard. It kills most of what Electrickery does but also kills stuff like Sanctum Prelate, Deathrite Shaman, etc. Another effect of this sort you could try is Sudden Demise.

For Death&Taxes, I feel you could take out more Dazes and Forces, and maybe another Probe to bring in 2 Roast and 2 Vortex. I could also see going down to 2 Price of Progress for the chance it could be blanked by a basic heavy draw from the opponent. The 2 Roasts are a great answer to Sanctum Prelate and Batterskull tokens. Vortex shuts off the life gain from Batterskull and Umezawa's Jitte.

Against Shardless BUG, I feel like boarding out 4 Force of Will on the play is fair, maybe keep one in. However on the Draw Daze loses a lot of strength so I would only want 2 and probably go back up on a Force or a Probe. I am not totally enamored with Pyroblast in this matchup because of the number of high impact spells they play that aren't blue. Personally I just leave them all in the sideboard, but I can see boarding in one.

To talk other BUG decks like Reid Duke's BUG deck, I feel like boarding in both Pyroblasts is appropriate here because they are playing much more blue than Shardless BUG. I would also keep in more Forces in this matchup because True-Name Nemesis backed up my multiple Noble Hierarchs is a thing.

For Infect, I don't love taking out all 4 Probes because information is very valuable in this matchup.

Looking at Sneak&Show, I would probably cut a 1-2 Price of Progress due to it being somewhat unreliable as they can just fetch basic lands to play around it.

Please do keep in mind that these are only suggestions and are based on my experience.

Anyway, best of luck in the event!

[grendl]

Looking at your list I feel like you do want a little more top end. I feel like you may want to move a Grim Lavamancer to the sideboard to put a True-Name Nemesis into the mainboard.

mainboard - 1 grim lavamancer + 1 true-name nemesis
sideboard - 1 electrickery + 1 grim lavamancer

i would like to find one more space in the sideboard for 1 extra true-name nemesis to board in against miracles and BUG decks

As for the sideboard, I don't really like Roast when you could just pay for Dismember. Also Submerge is pretty good in most of the same matchups that Roast is good in.

sideboard - 1 roast + 1 dismember

I'll make a split, the life loss due to dismember is quite heavy.
I allready tried submerge, I liked it, especially in response to a fetch, but found it too situational and it's not usuable in the eldrazi matchup.

I would definitely try a Bedlam Reveler out to be able to grind better.

I used to play two main, then one, then one in the sideboard. It's good in grindy matchups, but there true-name nemesis is just better.


I made some sideboarding tweaks based on your suggestions!
Thanks for the input!

[TheManWithaPlan]

So after dabbling with Fireblast on Friday night and some more today I have come to a conclusion for now. I do like Fireblast. I feel like even if it sits in your hand it can still be cast at almost any time. My problem with Reveler and Wrath is that they sat in your hand because you couldn't cast them, where as Fireblast sits in your hand because you don't want to cast it. So in conclusion, Fireblast has my seal of approval.

Quick report of FNM and today.

FNM
R1: Win 2-0 vs. Death&Taxes
R2: Win 2-0 vs. Miracles (he drew kind of poorly)
R3: Win 2-1 vs. Death&Taxes
R4: Win 2-0 vs. Burn

Today
R1: Loss 1-2 vs. Miracles (same miracles player from Friday)
R2: Loss 0-2 vs. Dark Thresh (didn't draw too well)
R3: Win 2-0 vs. Elves
R4: Win 2-1 vs. BUG Aluren
R5: Win 2-1 vs. Burn

Ended up in 9th (sadface) after losing to likely the best player in the room R1 and losing the pair up R2 which should've made my breakers better but my Miracles opponent lost rounds 3 and 4 but rebounded and won round 5 and squeaked in at 8th.

[CabalTherapy]

What do you guys think about the URg list with 2 Become Immense from that KMC tournament?
Looks interesting.

[TheManWithaPlan]

Working on updating the primer to add Sneak&Show and Grixis Delver to the matchups section as well as some version of BUG. What version of BUG would you guys like to see? Ried Duke BUG, or BUG Delver? Also adding Thunderous Wrath to the primer.

[Chatto]

What do you guys think about the URg list with 2 Become Immense from that KMC tournament?
Looks interesting.

Saw that, immediately looked at the manabase, and was not convinced. I like the stability, and simplicity of straight UR, so take my comment with a grain of salt

[Jonny Tempel]

Thoughts on the new spoiled 1-drop?

Soul-Scar Mage R
Prowess
If a source you control would deal noncombat damage to a creature an opponent controls, put that many -1/-1 counters on that creature instead.
1/2

[TheManWithaPlan]

Thoughts on the new spoiled 1-drop?

This just seems like a worse Monastery Swiftspear. Even though it makes your Lightning Bolt effects better against bigger creatures like Tarmogoyf and Thought-Knot Seer, I feel like the application is far to niche to warrant a slot.

[Tokugawa]

This just seems like a worse Monastery Swiftspear. Even though it makes your Lightning Bolt effects better against bigger creatures like Tarmogoyf and Thought-Knot Seer, I feel like the application is far to niche to warrant a slot.

Against decks with 0 or few creature(Miracles, Storm), it doesn't work. Against decks with creatures but not fatties(Dnt, Elves…), or decks with fatties that too fat(SnT, Reanimation…), also does't work.

These decks constitute what percentage of the meta…80%?

[jdc5011]

Hey guys. Just went 2-1 at LGS Thursday night legacy. Made a meta call to play 3 PoP main since it's full of greedy delver/wasteland decks.

R1: 4C control 2-1
G1: He mulled to 5 and couldn't answer a flipped driver. It's over when I float RR, sack both mountains for fireblast giving me 6 instant/sourceries I the GYM and slam Reveler.
+2 flusterstorm +2 pyroblast +1 dissmember
-1 reveler -4 daze
G2: I miss play kind of here. Op played goyfe (instant land creature sourcery in the bin). I did something and passed back. He plays strix. I pyroblast the strix on the stack. Then I BS into dissmember but goyfe is too big now cause of the artifact. Should've waited to dissmember the goyfe then blast the strix. Oh well.
-2 flusterstorm -3 FoW +3 daze +2 vortex
G3: double delver gets the job done real fast.

R2: elves 1-2
G1: got him to 3 with a delver in play. 3 FoW in hand. He plays NO. I force pitching force. He plays 2nd NO and gets me. I aggressively targeted his early creatures with bolt/chain lightning. Not sure if that's right or not. Would appreciate any insight into this matchup.
+1 cage +2 vortex +1 FoW +1 needle
-2 reveler -2 ponder -1 PoP
G2 turn 1 delver into turn 2 cage is pretty solid. Had him at 13. BS into land fireblast and something irrelevant. Managed to do 13 on the dot with delver PoP and fireblast.
G3: went to turns. Close game but he edged it out in the end.

R3: Noble Bant 2-0
G1: couple missplays. Forgot about the exalted trigger on the sprit dude who sacs to counter an instant/sorcery unless you pay equal to its power. In the end PoP was just too good here.
+2 pyroblast +1 needle +1 null rod +2 vortex +2 smash
-4 daze -1 reveler -3 swiftspear
G2: he plows my early threat but I had multiple delvers as backup. Probe revealing jitte so I promptly needle it on turn 2. He can't really draw any action. Double delver finishes it fast.
Think I probably leave the swiftspear in and dump FoW instead next time. I just felt underwhelmed with swiftspear in this matchup because multiplier active moms in a major clog up on the ground.

Overall I was very pleased with the way it played. I felt like most of the time I knew what the "correct" line of play was. Never really felt out of the game even when I was down and needed to find answers. I like reveler a lot. I'm not sold on 2 though. I had a hard time casting storm chaser. In fact I think he was in my hand multiple times and once got pitched to FoW the other time got discarded to reveler. I do want a pyroclasm in the 75. Especially since elves is a major contender at the shop. Is Rough//Tumble any better? I feel like you only ever cast the Rough side which is effectively exactly a pyroclasm reprint (plus I own a pyro and I don't own a Rough//Tumble).

Anyway, id appreciate any advice on SB techniques. I ran pretty much a stick lost with the following tweeks:
3 FoW main
3 PoP main (meta call to punish the BUG/Bant/4C decks infesting the LGS)
0 Thunderous Wrath

Sideboard looked like:
2 surgical
2 pyroblast
2 vortex
2 smash
2 flusterstorm
1 needle
1 dissmember
1 null rod
1 FoW
1 cage

Thinking about replacing Null Rod with pyroclasm.

[Hanni]

Rough//Tumble is better because it doesn't hit your own Delvers.

[jdc5011]

Rough//Tumble is better because it doesn't hit your own Delvers.

Doh. Feel dumb for missing that one. Yup. Makes sense.

[Jonny Tempel]

This just seems like a worse Monastery Swiftspear. Even though it makes your Lightning Bolt effects better against bigger creatures like Tarmogoyf and Thought-Knot Seer, I feel like the application is far to niche to warrant a slot.

I believe he will behave like a worse copy of Swiftspear most of the time but there may be certain scenarios where his second ability could be relevant. Call me dumb or simply overly optimistic but he actually makes combat worse for our opponents. You can simply attack into a Gurmag Angler, 4/5 Goyf etc and if your opponent blocks just respond with a bolt to kill their creature while the mage lives on (not possible with swiftspear alone). I you have 2 soul scar mages, a single bolt just outright kills a Tombstalker/Angler or makes the mighty Griselbrand into a 1/1 for the rest of the game.

Haven't there be numerous posts about stormchaser mages cmc2 beeing to expensive?
Yeah you cannot pitch the new guy to FoW and he lacks evasion and haste (critical points i know) but he seems very interesting in my opinion. Going soul-scar into swiftspear + Spell converts into at least 4 (often 7 with a bolt) damage whereas swiftspear into stormchaser mage gets in for "only" 3 damage on turn 2 without the option to cast a cantrip/bolt.


Greetings

[pateuglow]

Taking UR Delver to the Worcester Open tomorrow. Gonna get the #prowessgang all together.

[TheManWithaPlan]

Taking UR Delver to the Worcester Open tomorrow. Gonna get the #prowessgang all together.

Best of luck, get on camera!