All B/R update speculation.

[btm10]

You really think they'll make a major ban two months before GP November? I can see it happening in the B/R Update after that GP if blue is 6 of 8 slots in the top 8.

I highly doubt that anything will be banned, but I could see a low-impact unban because of the GP. Sort of like releasing prisoners on the eve of negotiations as a goodwill gesture, except in this case it's to create uncertainty about the GP meta. I'd be super excited for Frantic Search or Earthcraft.

[(nameless one)]

Remember when they banned Temporal Mastery? Maybe Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time will have the same fate.

[Jeff]

It's not good in multiples and if you draw a Treasure Cruise off of a Treasure Cruise you'll see why. It's a 1-of in good blue lists and a 2-of in blue lists that haven't figured out the first item yet.

Do you say this because you expect that's how it's gonna work, or do you say it because you've tested and that's the case?

I'm asking because I'm on your side on this argument, but my playgroup is aggressively testing the card and they seem to have come down on the decision that it's a 4of in pretty much every blue deck, so I'm wondering if other people who are testing have had different results.

[FoolofaTook]

Do you say this because you expect that's how it's gonna work, or do you say it because you've tested and that's the case?

I'm asking because I'm on your side on this argument, but my playgroup is aggressively testing the card and they seem to have come down on the decision that it's a 4of in pretty much every blue deck, so I'm wondering if other people who are testing have had different results.

I've done some testing in BUG Control at this point and a friend in RUG Delver. He thinks the card is total garbage at this point because the list is so tight that he has to remove something he doesn't want to remove to put it in and when he actually casts it Treasure Cruise is win more most of the time in games he's already won. RUG Delver doesn't really come back well against anything and drawing a Stifle, a bolt and a land doesn't change that basic fact. He's still testing though.

In BUG Control I'm finding it be good as a 1-of and problematic as a 2-of. I just pull a TNN for it and things seem good. If I have to pull a second card for it, well that becomes a Jace or a targeted discard spell and things are a lot more hinky all around.

[btm10]

I've done some testing in BUG Control at this point and a friend in RUG Delver. He thinks the card is total garbage at this point because the list is so tight that he has to remove something he doesn't want to remove to put it in and when he actually casts it Treasure Cruise is win more most of the time in games he's already won. RUG Delver doesn't really come back well against anything and drawing a Stifle, a bolt and a land doesn't change that basic fact. He's still testing though.

In BUG Control I'm finding it be good as a 1-of and problematic as a 2-of. I just pull a TNN for it and things seem good. If I have to pull a second card for it, well that becomes a Jace or a targeted discard spell and things are a lot more hinky all around.

I don't think Cruise is an auto 4 of in a lot of decks after spending most of the day testing with a couple of lists.

I think a RUG variant is probably possible, but Goose is unsupportable alongside it. In BUG Control, Dig Through Time is a house, but still not broken, and there just aren't many decks to support it. The format is fine. Delvecestral Recall won't break it. If you're on 4 Cruise, you're probably playing some sort of UGx Loam strategy or otherwise building around Delve. Maybe Lands? But I don't see 4-Cruise Lands taking over any time soon because graveyard strategies are among the easiest to hate.

[FoolofaTook]

I don't think Cruise is an auto 4 of in a lot of decks after spending most of the day testing with a couple of lists.

I think a RUG variant is probably possible, but Goose is unsupportable alongside it. In BUG Control, Dig Through Time is a house, but still not broken, and there just aren't many decks to support it. The format is fine. Delvecestral Recall won't break it. If you're on 4 Cruise, you're probably playing some sort of UGx Loam strategy or otherwise building around Delve. Maybe Lands? But I don't see 4-Cruise Lands taking over any time soon because graveyard strategies are among the easiest to hate.

If you're playing Lands and you want more spots for draw what you really want is Treasure Hunt not Treasure Cruise. Put that in a list with 40+ lands and Life from the Loam and you've got a resource that makes Treasure Cruise look like a piker.

[apple713]

when is the B/R list coming out? isn't it this week?

[Dice_Box]

when is the B/R list coming out? isn't it this week?

22nd it comes out. Some time in the early AM US time. Like 2 AM.

[Ace/Homebrew]

22nd it comes out. Some time in the early AM US time. Like 2 AM.

53 minutes from now.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/m...en-at-11-00-am

[iamajellydonut]

I wait with bated breath for "Standard, Modern, Legacy, Vintage: No changes".

[Ace/Homebrew]

I wait with bated breath for "Standard, Modern, Legacy, Vintage: No changes".

Yeah but until then the announcement could be anything! It could even be a boat!

[Quizzlemanizzle]

I wait with bated breath for "Standard, Modern, Legacy, Vintage: No changes".

It would be hilarious if Brainstorm got axed with SCG marketing an all-out Brainstorm GP New Jersey.

I would not mind if Sensei's Divining Top, Deathrite Shaman, Delver of Secrets and maybe Brainstorm got the axe. Format would get interesting after that.

Goblins might become valid again.

[iamajellydonut]

I would not mind if Sensei's Divining Top, Deathrite Shaman, Delver of Secrets and maybe Brainstorm got the axe. Format would get interesting after that.

Yeah, axing 70% of the relevant meta would be really interesting.

[testing32]

I wait with bated breath for "Standard, Modern, Legacy, Vintage: No changes".

:(

[Quizzlemanizzle]

DRS has a huge influence on the meta game. It warped the entire meta game towards BUG lists whether it is Bug Delver, Bug Midrange or Shardless Bug.

Sensei's is bannable simply because of the time durdling that makes it simply annoying to play against.

Delver and Brainstorm basically have the same argument as DRS except it is more extreme. Yeah you can say none of these decks make up more than 10% of the meta so everything is fine but in reality if you put together all Delver Archetypes that are basically built around the same shell than you have Delver taking up more like 20%+ online, likely more than that in paper.

[FoolofaTook]

I wait with bated breath for "Standard, Modern, Legacy, Vintage: No changes".

Yep, December will have the bans. They're not going to make a major change before the November events because they don't want the focus of the Magic community to be off of Khans of Tarkir and Standard during that time period.

If they ban Delver of Secrets or Brainstorm it will shake up the Legacy meta enough that people who want to play in November will be focusing on Legacy instead of Standard for the next six weeks.

DRS is a possibility in March if the meta warps too much after something blue is removed in December.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

according to the data I am looking at DRS is the 4th most played non-land card in legacy after Brainstorm, Force of Will and Ponder.

35% of all decks play a full set of DRS. Compared to that Delver (3rd most played creature after DRS and Tarmogoyf) looks weak at only 20% representation (also a full set on avg).

The biggest argument pro-banning DRS in my opinion is that the presence of DRS in the main of so many decks has pushed many fringe competetive graveyard based decks almost out of the format. So not only is DRS simply incredibly strong but as a side aspect it also screws over several archetypes.

[Dice_Box]

When they do shit like this it makes me wonder what they are planing. 4 min and I will know I guess.

Never mind: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2014-09-22

[Ace/Homebrew]

No changes

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2014-09-22

[FoolofaTook]

according to the data I am looking at DRS is the 4th most played non-land card in legacy after Brainstorm, Force of Will and Ponder.

35% of all decks play a full set of DRS. Compared to that Delver (3rd most played creature after DRS and Tarmogoyf) looks weak at only 20% representation (also a full set on avg).

The biggest argument pro-banning DRS in my opinion is that the presence of DRS in the main of so many decks has pushed many fringe competetive graveyard based decks almost out of the format. So not only is DRS simply incredibly strong but as a side aspect it also screws over several archetypes.

I agree with all of this. I hate the fact that DRS has made Dredge such a bad play. I've never played Ichorid but it bothers me that it's out of the meta as a factor. I've played a lot of Loam and it really bothers me that Loam is out of the meta as a factor.