There are actually a bunch of decent Champion targets in Hunter's list. Matron, and Redcap are the ones I'm thinking of.Originally Posted by Blastoderm
I also live for ridiculous crap like:
Kiki and Redcap on the board, play Crafter.
Copy Crafter with Kiki, copy champions Redcap, tap to bolt face.
Original Crafter's Champion trigger resolves, championing Crafter copy, returning Redcap, shocking opponent.
[QUOTE=Blastoderm;908618]Ah for the sideboard I suppose it's fine. I just hate putting these 1-of "toolbox" creatures in the maideck (kikjiki, goblin settler, etc). However I do have a Tuktuk scrapper in the main since blade will most likely become a thing again. My toolbox creatures of choice are only sided in if thought to have a significant impact:
I mostly agree with this to many one of toolbox creatures makes akward draws more and more likely which works against the consistency of matron and moggcatcher. I left alot of those cards in sideboard because largely they werent useful enough save a few matchups. That being said there are probably other main deck combos that could be exploited in lieu of kikki-jikki that ones just my personal favorite. I will say one thing though SCG and rabblemaster were by far the best all around cards to be using in most situations.
Played a few rounds tonight with the following list:
______________________________
4X Chalice
4X 3 ball
4X Blood Moon
3x Moon Man
4x Moggcatcher
3x Rabblemaster
1x Redcap
1x Tuktuk
1x Krenko
1x SGC
4x Matron
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Kiki Jiki
1x Settler
2x Stone Rain
3x Chrome Mox
8x Mountain
4x Cavern
4x Tomb
4x City
SB
1x Emrakul
1x Ensaring Bridge
1x Boil
2x Revoker
1x sharpshooter
1x Stingscourger
3x pyrokenesis
1x pyroblast
1x shatterstorm
2x sulfur elemental
_________________________________
Round 1: BUG good stuff
1. Bloodmoon turn 1. He asks if he can fetch or if they were just mountains, then scoops.
2. He gets a goyf and a drs out. Counters my redcap. I bloodmoon. His 2 creatures get there as I draw nothing but land
3. Bloodmoon, turn 1. Moonman turn 2. Stone Rain turn 3. scoops.
Round 2:
Digless Omnitell.
Game 1. Turn 1 rabblemaster is a clock. He show and tells turn 3, which i sandbag a 3 ball when he shows omni.
Game 2. He plays a pyromancer... wat? Cantrips for a few turns. I get a krenko out, he releases the ants on me.
Game 3. Turn 1 rabblemaster. He probes. See's I have emrakul, and ensnaring bridge. Passes back. I go to attack, he bolts my rabblemaster precombat. I deal him one. Play a moggcatcher. Moggcater fetches another rabble while he plays cantrips all of his cards. I keep waiting for him to release the ants and kill me. He doesn't. I fetch Kiki Jiki, copy rabble. Swing for the win.
Deck was fun. Changes: -1x Krenko, +1 Rabble.
Rabble is just a clock. I am looking forward to playing this deck more.
Yeah, Krenko is horrible in this deck.
I'm not a huge fan of either Matron or Recruiter in this deck because they don't require your opponent to answer them. I prefer to force my opponent to have answers to everything I play or lose.
By the way, here's what my list looks like now:
4x Moggcatcher
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Rakka Mar
1x Stingscourger
4x Blood Moon
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere
1x Umezawa's Jitte
11x Mountain
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
Sideboard:
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Anarchy
2x Pyrokinesis
2x Koth of the Hammer
1x Goblin Settler
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Stingscourger
1x Dualcaster Mage
Chandra's parents have been seeming better than the second Rakka Mar lately. They seem to add a bit more utility to the deck IMO. I'm also down to one equipment, having cut the SoFI a while back.
In the sideboard, the third Anarchy has been in flux with a third Pyrokinesis for a long time now. I can't really decide which I like better. The Dualcaster Mage is in there for hilariousness. He can really mess with decks like Reanimator and Miracles.
No goblin sharpshooter? This is great vs D&T... are you having that much trouble vs mono W?
Why the stingscourger maindeck?
I too have been wanting to try Mom&Dad Chandra. Maybe they'll replace a hound of griselbrand or two in my list.
I'm not a huge fan of either Matron or Recruiter in this deck because they don't require your opponent to answer them. I prefer to force my opponent to have answers to everything I play or lose.
-this was supposed to be a quote-
I would like to take a second to stress that the moggcatcher list is not a standard stompy deck its a deck geared much more towards the prison archetype. The use of tutor effects like matron are to gain what the other versions lack which is consistancy and value oriented lines of play. The idea is that your not overly reliant on your lock pieces and can play a normal game where you have more of a game plan than play a 4/4 hope it kills you. Im not in anyway trying to pick on anyone I just felt from a number of comments people were viewing it through the wrong lense.
I think Recruiter can be good as it can fetch basically anything in the deck including all our threats. Matron is strictly worse: goblins are always 2 power or below...
I found matron to be extremely useful. Had a guy put a needle on my mogg catcher on friday. matron helped me search up the scrapper.
I also found it to be the best S&T drop. They drop a grislguy. I drop a matron search up a stingscourger. Seems alright.
Admittedly so, but a playset of Imperial Recruiter costs $728.36. A playset of Goblin Matron costs $1.96.
Blastoderm, are you arguing the increased versatility of Recruiter is worth $726.40 in a deck that is mostly Goblins (WhiteHeart's list had 5 humans)?
It definitely is, especially when you consider that a deck with multiple moggcatchers, recruiters and magus allows you to play a staple of cavern of souls and put them into play announcing humans!Blastoderm, are you arguing the increased versatility of Recruiter is worth $726.40 in a deck that is mostly Goblins (WhiteHeart's list had 5 humans)?
According to MtG Goldfish, buying WhiteHeart's 7th place list from scratch (maindeck) costs $710.26. A playset of Imperial Recruiters costs more than the rest of the deck! And it allows you to fetch 2 other cards (a 4-of and a 1-of). It also hurts the current strength of naming Goblin with Cavern of Souls.
I do not doubt Recruiter's strength as a card. I am pointing out that in WhiteHeart's list, Goblin Matron does everything Recruiter would do except grab 5 humans (which isn't actually true... Recruiter cannot fetch Krenko, Mob Boss).
Remember when replying in a forum that the conversation usually involves the last several posts. Yes Zango, Recruiter is a good card. But WhiteHeart's 7th place finish with his list was unlikely to improve had he added 4 cards that cost more than the other 56 in his deck.
I enjoy your posts. Should've hoped on the stompy bandwagon when I first saw you play it back in 2012, now I'm effectively priced out (but I bought a new watch, so I got that going for me.)
What makes me even happier- came for your take on Stompy, delighted to find a light pissing match discussing Goblins (still stompy, but not dragons).
Joy
If I had Recruiters I still wouldn't play them (don't like how it slows the deck down). I was merely pointing out that I find it better than Matron since it can find Magus of the Moon and Moggcatcher. I didn't know "budget" was a constraint in this discussion (we aren't in the Cavius budget forum). Reminds me of the time when I suggested in the pox thread that it should play 3x Tabernacle maindeck. My suggestion wasn't welcome and was shot down.
Edit: I tested mom&dad nalaar, was great!
That is completely fair!
And I agree if the only goblins you use are 3 Siege-Gang Commanders and a Tuktuk Scrapper!
Budget wasn't a constraint, but it is a factor. If you see a list with Moat, Chains of Mephistopheles, or Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale they usually appear as singletons.
The only constraint was that we were discussing WhiteHeart's list.
You stated "Matron is strictly worse", and it is more nuanced than that.
The list (not including Matron/Recruiter) uses 5 humans and 11 goblins. There are another 4 goblins in the sideboard.
If you use Recruiter, the mix is 9/11.
If you use Matron, the mix is 5/15.
When you are using Cavern of Souls, you want as much of your creature base to be homogenous as possible.
Krenko in the list also adds a point in Matron's favor because Matron can get it but Recruiter cannot. THEN factor in the +$700 card difference.
Someone for the Love of God Play a Moat//Chains List.
In my case it was sort of a budget issue but after testing I prefer matron to recruiter primarily for the cavern of souls choice being easier and to tutor for krenko. In all fairness however they are both viable optuons and likely come more to a matter of personal preference rather than which is better.
Oh also matron can be moggcatchered for and recruiter cant (the sweet synergy) not that it matters much.
Lol you tutor for a goblin to put into play which tutors for another to put into your hand.
I'd rather spend my turns playing threats instead of tutoring for them.
Its technically a source of card advantage and also can help you prepare to recover after a supreme verdict ot terminus. So yes in rare instances it is the proper line of play.
I have since made the aforementioned changes to the list and so far they are working well while im not a big city of traitors fan its a somewhat necessary evil.
I've aldo dropped a krenko in favor of a third rabblemaster Krenko is powerful but having more than one wasnt making it better since he's best against the decks that already have trouble removing him.
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