[DTB] U/R Delver

[JDK]

the drain 2 owl needs Cavern Harpy's ability that with this Mentor is a 3 life loss each time combo.

This Mentor just kill Aluren combo if it sticks (but it will not)

-1 +2 -2 = -1 (ignoring previous DRS and Owl Lifegain and any form of removal or flooding the board with Agent, Strix etc.)

A world where swords to plowshares is a banned card.

It was obviously a rhetorical question, as we are nowhere near a format without StP, Decay or Bolt...

[Chatto]

You do realize the difference between "fine" and "impressive", right? ;)

As for the Dragon: In which world would you not play TNN first?

As a matter of fact yes ;) Still Aluren is slow, we can do a lot of damage in the early stages of the game. But it's not the best way to fight this combo, and chances are Mentor won't stick anyway.

As for the dragon, like I said: at first glance yes, at second glance no. At this point it 'dies to removal', which is a dead give-away, but a valid reason nontheless. And yes, TNN is stricktly better.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

So are you guys just not excited about Harsh Mentor, or just nobody's bein' a Chatty Cathy?...Cuz I'm pretty excited.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Jonny Tempel]

The fact that Harsh Mentor triggers on each top activation makes it very interesting in the miracle MU.
There are of course many other situations where this card can sneak in some steady shocks if he survives a couple of turns.

[Poron]

-1 +2 -2 = -1 (ignoring previous DRS and Owl Lifegain and any form of removal or flooding the board with Agent, Strix etc.)

exactly: it kills Aluren owl combo as I said.

[jattra]

To me, Harsh Mentor looks like cheeper Sulfuric Vortex (in context of Miracles matchup).
Disadvantage is that the mentor can be easily removed and does not turn off Batterskull and other life gain.
The mana cost is much better though and he has 2 power to hit the opponent during each attack.

[Ralf]

I think Failure is a very nice tempo card that might help revive Patriot Delver.

But from my perspective, UR Delver should also look into a tiny white splash, just for the card.

Even if it is all speculations (and need testing), it seems failure could be useful for UR Delver:


Pros:

- Counter AD for a turn or two turns in the early game (protect your creature)
- Could potentially trigger prowness twice with 1 card even if unlikely (you would need to play both sides during your turn meaning having access to 3 mana...)
- Huge tempo boost (Oppo turn -> Failure, your turn -> Comply) against any CMC 2+ removal spell
- The same could be said for delaying oppo's creatures spell.


Cons

- CMC 2 for Failure. CMC 1 would have been OP...
- Not very good against CMC 1 removals but could be another constraint for your opponent's manabase (having early access to 2 white for STP for example)
- Force you to leave 2 mana opened (makes you "readable" but you can always bluff)
- Force you to have more lands in play to use it properly in many cases.

That card might be bad after testing but well, who knows ?

What do you think ?

[Poron]

he can Decay in response. Boros Charm is 100% better and more versatile than that.

Rejected. It can save in combat (double strike), it can save in response to destroying effects (all but Terminus and StP) it can get you there in every other case. At Instant speed

Failure/comply doesn't do anything like that.
The W splash would be for SFM and Boros Charm

[CabalTherapy]

The W splash would be for SFM and Boros Charm

Certainly not. Can't imagine a worse card than SFM in this deck.

[Ralf]

he can Decay in response. Boros Charm is 100% better and more versatile than that.

Rejected. It can save in combat (double strike), it can save in response to destroying effects (all but Terminus and StP) it can get you there in every other case. At Instant speed

Failure/comply doesn't do anything like that.
The W splash would be for SFM and Boros Charm

1) Decay in response of what ? Comply ? If I say early game, it means that if your opponent as already spent GB for decay he doesn't have any mana left during your turn, so that Comply actually works (even if not playing AD during his turn is not big of a deal as he will use it on your next turn). Comply is definitely more for sorcery speed type of cards.

2) Boros is bad against terminus and STP. Failure works against everything (Terminus and STP included).

[Poron]

Certainly not. Can't imagine a worse card than SFM in this deck.

joking right? Young Pyromancer + equipments is just crazy.
it simply becomes much more controllish

[Poron]

1) Decay in response of what ? Comply ? If I say early game, it means that if your opponent as already spent GB for decay he doesn't have any mana left during your turn, so that Comply actually works (even if not playing AD during his turn is not big of a deal as he will use it on your next turn). Comply is definitely more for sorcery speed type of cards.

2) Boros is bad against terminus and STP. Failure works against everything (Terminus and STP included).

So Comply is for...? To Timewalk his Show and Tell once?
Isn't Silence 100% better then?

I prefer Boros Charm over this

[Whitefaces]

What on earth is going on.

[TheManWithaPlan]

What on earth is going on.

LOL, my thoughts exactly.

But realistically, I don't think that Failure//Comply will see play. It is just far too inefficient. You could play Gitaxian Probe and Chis Pikula (Meddling Mage) if you really want that effect.

Also I would never put Stoneforge Mystic and Boros Charm in the same deck. If you were looking to play a more aggressive style Patriot Delver deck, I would dismiss Stoneforge Mystic entirely.

However, in my opinion, I just don't think Patriot Delver is good and I don't think warping the UR manabase is worth it for the white cards.

[CabalTherapy]

joking right? Young Pyromancer + equipments is just crazy.
it simply becomes much more controllish

Are you?
Things this deck does not want to do.

[Chatto]

Not to sound as a dick, but we're still straight UR. I really don't see the upside in splashing white, and kill a rocksolid manabase. Right now the only card I find interesting to debate is Harsh Mentor. Aside of 'dies to removal', I think it is a pretty briljant one-sided Shock-effect. Question is, do we want to test the card at all (be it as MD- or SB-option)?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Oh, I see. I wish I had said nothing. You aren't Chatty Cathys, you're Crazy Carlas.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Chatto]

Oh, I see. I wish I had said nothing. You aren't Chatty Cathys, you're Crazy Carlas.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

No idea what you're trying to imply, but if you're calling me a crazy girl, please call me Carrie.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

No can do.

The implication was that I asked for conversation about the new Mentor and what came immediately after was a spastic reaction to other rather unplayable spoiled cards, not meaningful in any way to this thread or the conversation requested lol.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[theMonster]

I'd like to ask a specific question about Harsh Mentor. Since the Shock effect will disincentivize people from using fetches and Deathrite activations, do y'all think Mentor is better suited for Stifle/Wasteland shells that want to punish people's mana development? Having the opponent finally cave and play into Stifle while also taking 2 seems decent. Plus Stifle/Wasteland (instead of Price) helps Mentor survive more things and chip away for more damage because they wouldn't necessarily have the lands to cast their removal. Granted this would be a very different-looking list than the Prowess versions, but I wanted to get thoughts on the idea.

Thanks!