All B/R update speculation.

[Ace/Homebrew]

in a world of things to care about, this is way down there

Agreed.

Thanks for filling me in.

[clavio]

Dr_D already covered your post, but I'd like to add that High Tide is currently (still) dead (aka a fringe deck) and needs a buff anyway.

I don't think Frantic Search even does enough to save High Tide.

[Dice_Box]

Save, no, make Feline happy anyway? Likely.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Could possibly make Spring Tide better

[Admiral_Arzar]

Reanimator already can get a turn 1 or turn 2 fatty, often with protection. I don't know how you expect a 3 drop instant to speed reanimator up. High tide still needs lands in play to go off and wants to wait as long as possible. You can't even go hightide -> frantic search off of two islands. Sneak and Show has lotus petal to power out turn 1 show and tells, would they even run search? This isn't a comment on if the card should remained banned or not, but I don't understand your comments about its effect on these archetypes you mentioned.

This about sums it up. Reanimator should have functionally won the game long before it has enough mana to cast Frantic (and plays like 15 lands to boot). Sneak doesn't need shit filtering that is card disadvantage and also wants to just win the game when it hits three mana. High Tide (all varieties) loves it, but those decks range from bad to awful so who cares.

I think it enables combo a bit too much. It provides card draw, filtering, and it's basically free.

Yeah, free once you have three lands in play. How many Legacy combo decks want to wait until they have three lands to play their "filtering" spell?

3 lands in play, cast Frantic Search....oh look I have 6 mana counting delve. It's not getting unbanned for both fair and unfair reasons after Khans.

Just think about that for a moment, if opponent has access to 4 mana (3 lands at least in that counting) with 1 extra card in hand they could dig 2 deeper, find a Gurmag, untap 3 lands, and before you ever got priority to use DRS slam Angler. That's probably the most innocuous, yet still likely overpowered, interaction that is already knowable with Frantic Search.

Yes, because Delver decks that play Gurmag Angler (and Brainstorm lololol) usually have 4 lands in play in games they're winning. And need more than 1 or 2 lands to cast their Angler on turn 4 (or earlier). And never run into Daze when tapping out for their three-mana "free" spell. I wish I could play against your local Delver players!

[tescrin]

Yes, because Delver decks that play Gurmag Angler (and Brainstorm lololol) usually have 4 lands in play in games they're winning. And need more than 1 or 2 lands to cast their Angler on turn 4 (or earlier). And never run into Daze when tapping out for their three-mana "free" spell. I wish I could play against your local Delver players!

Not to mention that it's card disadvantage. Delver can deal with 1-for-1's and try to get you early, and run some 1-for-2s; but I don't think any delver player voluntarily does a 1-for-0 except especially important Daze plays or 2-for-1 with Force plays; which are essential for it's tempo plan. I doubt we'd see FSearch all the sudden, a 3-mana spell CDA spell, that is 1-mana more efficient than Thought scour, but played 2 turns later...

Long story short, Frenzied Search is reasonable, but literally just High Tide until someone combos it with.. blood scrivener? That'll do the trick.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

This about sums it up. Reanimator should have functionally won the game long before it has enough mana to cast Frantic (and plays like 15 lands to boot).

Jace, Vryn's Prodigy has to occupy the same spot in that deck (and does more for the deck) and it's like, what, a 1-2 of?

[Lord Seth]

Yeah, looking at it, it's hard to give a real justification for Frantic Search being banned. Despite being "free" it still costs 3 mana which is a pretty high amount for what a Faithless Looting or Careful Study will give you on the first turn.

The only deck I can see running it is High Tide, whose biggest finish in the last year was to win a Trial at GP Prague. I don't think a minor boost to such a deck is something worth worrying about.

[Ronald Deuce]

One side complained, then Elaine Chase tweeted an apology. Then the other side complained that Wizards were too fast to apologize and they should have stood their ground. Then everybody (almost?) forgot about it. Because who cares.

It's a good thing they're paying attention to what matters. Oh, wait.

Seriously, it feels like they're getting paid to devote their energy to stuff that isn't their job.

[EDIT: Maybe because this is the first time I've heard of the teapot tempest in question I'm a bit surprised that's the thing people got upset about; not "satanism" in both Innistrad blocks, not the obvious decapitation in Grisly Spectacle or the Hobo-with-a-Shotgun carnival gorefest that is Rakdos, not "idolatry" in Theros and Amonkhet. But, well, priorities and shit.]

[Gheizen64]

Search isn't that good but honestly i think the list in general is a mess with several low power cards on it with things like brainstorm or petal off the list which are both cards that create a longer list and a less interesting format that if they were on the list themselves (brainstorm with miracle cards and clunky combo lists like SnT, and petal with every shade of fast combo compared to say, bargain, frantic search etc...).

I think Search would be playable in high tide and maybe fringe in some other list but i can't think of what. It's way too slow for reanimator, cloud of faeries is better for most creature-based decks, maybe some kind of enchantress/replenish list? Which wouldn't be anywhere near T1 of course but still interesting.

[Tittliewinks22]

I asked this before but I think it got buried.

Does anyone have a thought on Tolarian Academy

Is this too broken compared to Gaea's Cradle and Serra's Sanctum.

I don't think it has the mana rocks available that Vintage does in order to break it, but maybe I'm overlooking the power of LED/Petal?

[Dice_Box]

Artifacts are easier to cast on mass, harder to destroy and often more efficient than Creatures at disruption and acceleration. Academy is in my view, the third most broken land ever printed. The other two being Workshop and Bazaar. All of these lands are unsafe in my opinion.

Would make Time Spiral quite the card though. Amongst others too.

[Lemnear]

I asked this before but I think it got buried.

Does anyone have a thought on Tolarian Academy

Is this too broken compared to Gaea's Cradle and Serra's Sanctum.

I don't think it has the mana rocks available that Vintage does in order to break it, but maybe I'm overlooking the power of LED/Petal?

The issue with Academy is that many powerful artifacts of the format cost 0-1 mana and most of them produce mana themselves, so with Academy we would face a snowballing effect like Elves has with Cradle, except even stronger. With LED, Petal, Mox Opal, Diamond Mox, etc an Academy could easily produce 2+ blue mana T1 and following turns. I don't think I need to point out how powerful such an effect would be in context of cantrips and combo decks

[TsumiBand]

It's a good thing they're paying attention to what matters. Oh, wait.

Seriously, it feels like they're getting paid to devote their energy to stuff that isn't their job.

[EDIT: Maybe because this is the first time I've heard of the teapot tempest in question I'm a bit surprised that's the thing people got upset about; not "satanism" in both Innistrad blocks, not the obvious decapitation in Grisly Spectacle or the Hobo-with-a-Shotgun carnival gorefest that is Rakdos, not "idolatry" in Theros and Amonkhet. But, well, priorities and shit.]

Well every group gets their jabs in from time to time. Some people took it personally that Deicide came out in a set timed near Easter, 100 years ago parents were worried that a game with references to Demons was just secretly prepping children to make good on that antediluvian blood pact we were all warned about in CCD, etc etc.

[JDK]

I don't think Frantic Search even does enough to save High Tide.

Save, no, make Feline happy anyway? Likely.

On a sidenote: Watched her stream yesterday. Had to stop watching despite being Twitch addicted. I recommend less talking, singing and saltyness, if you want to get viewers. Inexperience with MODO paired with practice room random matchups is cancer.

Search isn't that good but honestly i think the list in general is a mess with several low power cards on it with things like brainstorm or petal off the list which are both cards that create a longer list and a less interesting format that if they were on the list themselves (brainstorm with miracle cards and clunky combo lists like SnT, and petal with every shade of fast combo compared to say, bargain, frantic search etc...).

You cannot stop your Brainstorm hate, can you? :D

I doubt that a format without Brainstorm would be more interesting, but if you have fun with even more BR Reanimator and Co, be my guest.

[Crimhead]

On a sidenote: Watched her stream yesterday. Had to stop watching despite being Twitch addicted. I recommend less talking, singing and saltyness, if you want to get viewers. Inexperience with MODO paired with practice room random matchups is cancer.

Feline has a Twitch stream?

[Lava Snacks]

What's the ranking of unbans, exempting ante and dexterity cards, that would be the most ridiculous?

I'm having real difficulty narrowing it down. They're all bonkas, I tells ya.

1. Mishra's Workshop
2. Black Lotus
3. Moxen
4. Strip Mine
5. Tolarian Academy
6. Demonic Consultation
7. Balance
8. Ancestral Recall
9. Mental Misstep
10. Mana Crypt

[Jander78]

What's the ranking of unbans, exempting ante and dexterity cards, that would be the most ridiculous?

I'm having real difficulty narrowing it down. They're all bonkas, I tells ya.

1. Mishra's Workshop
2. Black Lotus
3. Moxen
4. Strip Mine
5. Tolarian Academy
6. Demonic Consultation
7. Balance
8. Ancestral Recall
9. Mental Misstep
10. Mana Crypt

Mishra's Workshop being a land (and was legal in the Type 1.5 format that Legacy was built from) makes it much less dangerous than a lot on that list. It's not even close to being as bonkers as the ability to play 4x Black Lotus or 4x Ancestral Recall. Mental Misstep is more annoying than broken, I wouldn't have that anywhere near a top 10 most ridiculous to unban. Yawgmoth's Will should definitely be in the top 10.

[Fox]

Yes, because Delver decks that play Gurmag Angler (and Brainstorm lololol) usually have 4 lands in play in games they're winning. And need more than 1 or 2 lands to cast their Angler on turn 4 (or earlier). And never run into Daze when tapping out for their three-mana "free" spell. I wish I could play against your local Delver players!

Note that I called that specific Search/Gurmag interaction innocuous. The point is that there are cards with delve, and Frantic Search reads: see 2 more cards, make 3 free mana. It isn't about a specific scenario, but understanding that the mechanical implications are inherently troublesome and easily able to spin out of control. It's a card that more than most has really earned its place on the ban list.

[Lemnear]

Mishra's Workshop being a land (and was legal in the Type 1.5 format that Legacy was built from) makes it much less dangerous than a lot on that list. It's not even close to being as bonkers as the ability to play 4x Black Lotus or 4x Ancestral Recall. Mental Misstep is more annoying than broken, I wouldn't have that anywhere near a top 10 most ridiculous to unban. Yawgmoth's Will should definitely be in the top 10.

Funny, as I consider Yawgmoth's Will one of the safer cards on the list in terms of Legacy, IF Lions Eye Diamond was not legal in the format. The powerlevel of YW is tied to the cards you are able to loop and if you can cast overpowered & restricted cards like A.Recall, T.Walk, Lotus, Gush, etc. you end up with a very swingy card by itself. In Legacy, the amount of broken cards to replay is very limited and as WotC was clever enough to exclude LED/Petal loops on Past in Flames, we can see that the effect and resulting cardadvantage is powerful, but not broken by itself.