[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

[Ronald Deuce]

Thanks for the insight! I'll try out the 2x DP, 1 Ad Naus, 1 PiF, 1 ToA package at the next weekly. Would replacing one of those DPs with Burning Wish work out?

[DISCLAIMER: I'm no expert.]

I'm not sure you'd want it in place of a Petition in that build. The red mana is a big hurdle to jump in this deck, you won't be getting (likely unprotected) turn-1s with it without Lotus Petal and LED/a bunch of rituals, and you can't rely on LED to get red mana unless you've got enough mana to Infernal Tutor for the Wish, in which case you're probably already in a spot where you can go for a PiF kill or an Ad Nauseam.

I'm still interested in trying out a singleton Wish, but I'm not running Petition (for the time being). The main reason I want to try it is that I sometimes feel like I need an extra business spell, but I still don't know whether it's better than Chrome Mox or Rain of Filth and I don't want a 5-spell or Grim Tutor. Anybody have any testing data? I don't get to play nearly as much as I'd like to.

[Miscanthus]

[DISCLAIMER: I'm no expert.]

I'm not sure you'd want it in place of a Petition in that build. The red mana is a big hurdle to jump in this deck, you won't be getting (likely unprotected) turn-1s with it without Lotus Petal and LED/a bunch of rituals, and you can't rely on LED to get red mana unless you've got enough mana to Infernal Tutor for the Wish, in which case you're probably already in a spot where you can go for a PiF kill or an Ad Nauseam.

I'm still interested in trying out a singleton Wish, but I'm not running Petition (for the time being). The main reason I want to try it is that I sometimes feel like I need an extra business spell, but I still don't know whether it's better than Chrome Mox or Rain of Filth and I don't want a 5-spell or Grim Tutor. Anybody have any testing data? I don't get to play nearly as much as I'd like to.

I have tested with Burning Wish a bit. Overall I was pretty disappointed. It can be ok as a sideboard card for situations where you expect to face a fair amount of discard + exile effects (surgical extraction, etc.), but overall as a maindeck card the red mana requirement and not being able to efficiently get Ad Nauseam when needed (and to a lesser extent the fact that it cannot be used in a Past in Flames loop) is just too much. Running multiple red producing lands in the deck (I.e.: something like 2x Volcanic Island, 1x Badlands) alleviates this a little bit, but even then it felt just less effective than a Dark Petition/Grim Tutor.
I found that what would often happen is that you have an excellent hand for a Past in Flames loop (or an Ad Nauseam with plenty of life) with one or two floating mana remaining to keep your engine going afterward, and you just need to find a tutor. And then you draw/find Burning Wish. Sad times...

[nevilshute]

Got around to playing magic again: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...0ybOc5nw1-21n5

[Ronald Deuce]

Got around to playing magic again: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...0ybOc5nw1-21n5

Excellent! Great to see you're at it again!

[thefringthing]

Surfinbird's got a new sideboard for the 2 DP, 1 PIF, 1 AN, 1 TOA list:

1 By Force
1 Culling Scales
2 Dread of Night
2 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Flusterstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Pyroclasm
1 Rending Volley
1 Sudden Shock
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod's Crypt

So this is -2 By Force, -1 Pyroclasm, -1 Dread of Night, -1 Surgical Extraction, +1 Culling Scales, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Hurkyl's Recall, +1 Rending Volley, +1 Sudden Shock.

I'm slightly inclined to keep playing their previous sideboard just because I A) don't want to hunt down a Culling Scales, B) don't want to learn a new sideboard map, and C) don't want to write down a new sideboard map. :P

[Ronald Deuce]

Where does By Force excel? I definitely get why it's up for consideration, but what makes it better than Hurkyl's Recall? I get that actually destroying things is theoretically better than bouncing them, but how often will it matter? I feel like in the games I lose to Chalices and such, I wouldn't be any better off with straight-up shatter effects than I am with the Recall.

On a related note, anybody having success with 3x Hurkyl's at the moment?

Haven't gotten the chance to test too much lately, but went 2–1 last week, losing to Show and Tell. Was trying out the double-Island, sideboard Bayou plan. Funnily enough, it screwed me in both games in the match I lost, then didn't matter the rest of the time. With that said, having Tropical Island wouldn't have gotten me out of those rough spots either (needed black mana), so I'm chalking it up to bad draws.

[thefringthing]

Where does By Force excel? I definitely get why it's up for consideration, but what makes it better than Hurkyl's Recall? I get that actually destroying things is theoretically better than bouncing them, but how often will it matter? I feel like in the games I lose to Chalices and such, I wouldn't be any better off with straight-up shatter effects than I am with the Recall.

By Force flips as a 1 to Ad Nauseam, not shut off by Chalice or Prelate on 2.

[owerbart]

Hello. I'm new to storm, so pardon me if this has already been asked: cutting green in favor of an exclusive Grixis list set in stone? I own all the manabase of the regular (old?) storm with trop and bayou for decays and xantids in the side. It is still effective? Or should I start on a full grixis list? I've never played storm before so i guess whichever list i take will stay for like 2-3 months.

[ScottW]

G is still valid and I don't imagine that will change anytime soon. It's just not a must in the absence of CB and SDT. Not sure what to recommend for a beginner but I think Togores always plays a more streamlined list. I think he's playing AD as well.

[CabalTherapy]

Hello. I'm new to storm, so pardon me if this has already been asked: cutting green in favor of an exclusive Grixis list set in stone? I own all the manabase of the regular (old?) storm with trop and bayou for decays and xantids in the side. It is still effective? Or should I start on a full grixis list? I've never played storm before so i guess whichever list i take will stay for like 2-3 months.

Some guys prematurely cut green causing more guys to follow the herd. Made no sense to me since Decay is the cleanest way to get rid of permanents having still a wide range of relevant targets in a post-CB/top-meta. Xantid is not
an issue here since it's not really needed but can be a solid option.

[fangzie]

Some guys prematurely cut green causing more guys to follow the herd. Made no sense to me since Decay is the cleanest way to get rid of permanents having still a wide range of relevant targets in a post-CB/top-meta.

This was my logic as well. It's paid off with the rise of the new miracles packing a billion hatebears as well, and has rarely handicapped me (only when the only land in hand is a trop, and opponent is on wasteland.dec). I also tend to think some overestimate how much damage a trop does to the mana base

[ScottW]

I also tend to think some overestimate how much damage a trop does to the mana base

Me too. 2 Island does not seem that good. Sure you can double cantrip in a turn but too often I like to access to B early and 2B for the combo turn. Are there other reasons for the 2 Island that I'm missing? Seems like it is just to have a very reliable set up for eventually going into a nude combo. Casting a DR then discard or using a LP, GP? This is fine obviously but I wouldn't like to be actively looking for a LP with my cantrips.

[WashableWater1]

Me too. 2 Island does not seem that good. Sure you can double cantrip in a turn but too often I like to access to B early and 2B for the combo turn. Are there other reasons for the 2 Island that I'm missing? Seems like it is just to have a very reliable set up for eventually going into a nude combo. Casting a DR then discard or using a LP, GP? This is fine obviously but I wouldn't like to be actively looking for a LP with my cantrips.

A third basic let's you hit land drops without opening yourself up to wasteland against Delver so that you can play around Daze/Spell Pierce

[ScottW]

A third basic let's you hit land drops without opening yourself up to wasteland against Delver so that you can play around Daze/Spell Pierce

Thanks for the reply.

Daze never seems to be a problem for me and I'm generally glad when they cast it as it just adds to storm. SP is something I'd be playing through via ritual or taking with with discard, in which case I'd almost prefer 2 Swamp if I played 3 basics.

[fangzie]

Thanks for the reply.

Daze never seems to be a problem for me and I'm generally glad when they cast it as it just adds to storm. SP is something I'd be playing through via ritual or taking with with discard, in which case I'd almost prefer 2 Swamp if I played 3 basics.

This, more or less. Typically, I'd rather risk a wasteland than fetch a second island. Having double island, 1 swamp in play doesn't really let you do much

[owerbart]

G is still valid and I don't imagine that will change anytime soon. It's just not a must in the absence of CB and SDT. Not sure what to recommend for a beginner but I think Togores always plays a more streamlined list. I think he's playing AD as well.

Some guys prematurely cut green causing more guys to follow the herd. Made no sense to me since Decay is the cleanest way to get rid of permanents having still a wide range of relevant targets in a post-CB/top-meta. Xantid is not
an issue here since it's not really needed but can be a solid option.

thanks for the replies

[Sloshthedark]

Got around to playing magic again: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...0ybOc5nw1-21n5

Thanks, it's great to have you back!

This, more or less. Typically, I'd rather risk a wasteland than fetch a second island. Having double island, 1 swamp in play doesn't really let you do much

yeah, I've never felt like Island provides more value than screwing you up being Island occasionally, I can see it defensible in the more safe quad preordain list but it's a handicap for most other imo i'd rather go for mythical 10fetches or 3rd sea rather than 2nd island... fwiw I basically ignore wasteland (I partially have to due to my deck design but also as a tool to outplay my opponent) and do not feel like I lose too many games to it... if there was the most common mistake for me to stress out it would be T1 fetch- island, which should be a conscious decision depending on the gamestate not a mindless automatism

[WashableWater1]

Obviously every game is different, but I usually fetch basics most games, unless I'm Duressing into brainstorm etc. Alrhough losing to wasteland does not happen much, but it does happen, particularly in soft counter matchups where one mana can be huge. I also don't see myself ever needing more than 4 duals right now, but a 9th fetch could be alright.

[JamieW89]

Grinded a bunch of Legacy this weekend at GP Amsterdam, and maybe some more tommorow. Went a terrible 2-2 and 2-2 on Friday with a 1 PiF/1 AdN/1 EtW/1 ToA list (some bad matches and luck, but also sloppy play in general). Added a DP today over 3rd Preordain and Mox over 15th land without green SB. Ended up 3-0 into ID twice, and dropped from the third event at 1-1 because I was exhausted (if I was fit I feel like I'd have gone 3-0 again). The DP felt like a really good addition, perhaps the Empty isn't needed main with the matchups I got, but if there is a lot of Delver it's nice.

Event-1: 2-2
?? - W (forgot)
BUG Delver - L (get to a great spot in g1 after his drs into delver+hymn with 2x fow backup, but bs failed to find a black source. g2 I need to find a castable spell of Ponder but don't)
Maverick - L (Lost dieroll and bad 6 g1, clear his stuff postboard but never find a tutor)
BR Reanimate - W (Karakas won it)

Event-2: 2-2
Goblin Stompy - L (could have waited a turn on Hurkyl's in g3, was quite surely a better chance - only bad if he draws one of his few burn spells or another Chalice)
Elves - W
Burn - L (topdecked his single Trap g2 after I won g1)
Blade - W

Event-3: 3-0
UR Delver - W
ANT - W (some missplays from both, really interesting match)
Elves - W (guy got kicked out for being drunk later, I think he was 6-1 for the day at the time, with a few more beers than rounds played)
MUD - ID (beat his Food Chain for fun)

Event-4: 3-0
Deathblade - W (Massacre was good)
Sneak & Show - W (Survived an Emrakul hit to win in g1)
BUG Delver - W
Burn - ID (to consume energy, but should have played and ended the day)

Event-5: 1-1
Elves - W
Deathblade - L (bad 5 g1 and bad keep g2 but wasnt able to play well anymore)
BUG Delver - Scooped but would have won the 1 game we played.

For a total of 11-5. With better play it could have surely been 13-3 or so.

[Morden]

why everyone thinks that empty is good vs delver? yes, if you can make 10-12 goblins on turn 2 it's ok. But under discards, daze, pierce, force, it's not so easy to have an early storming. If they have pyromancer in play, they can throw spells just to make tokens to block. I lost against an opponent with 10 goblins in play and against a lonely pyromancer, bringing him to 1 life point and loosing against a gurmag. Other situation, 14 goblins, against delver/delver/DRS/gurmag/pyromancer, opponent with no cards in hand.

I'll keep EtW if I am on the play vs grixis, and just for eldrazi. I was thinking to have them MD (I have to replace a mox), but at this point I'll insert a fatal push: low cmc for nausea, it's an out against eidolon/thalia/leovold/gaddock, 1 more slot in the SB. Basically it's the md decay slot for people who play green.