Well, the orb IS the cleanest answer...Originally Posted by frogger42
Curious: has anyone done math on dmg from rabblemasters vs garrison? I do like that it has a 3 toughness, makes MD sweepers more valuable.
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Uncontested, a rabblemaster will kill one turn faster. That's all the math I did. It's pretty rare for rabblemaster or Garrison to go completely understand though. And as you said, garrison is better with sweepers, also you can leave back tokens as blockers. You also aren't forced to attack into a batterskull or jitte which can be relevant.
Rabble: 1+6+8+10=25
Garrison: 0+4+6+8+10=28
Jeff Hoogland did amazing with Chandra Tribal featuring our very own pinkfrosting. I've been hooked on any prison variant since SDT departed.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTbURBLIUc
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Blood Moon
3 Bottled Cloister
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Fiery Confluence
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Trinisphere
11 Mountain
-------------------
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Boil
2 Null Rod
2 Volcanic Fallout
Last edited by onemancannon; 09-27-2017 at 03:10 PM.
I absolutely HATE Bottled Cloister. It competes with the higher curve cards, it does nothing when it comes in, it can leave cards stranded in limbo if they kill it at the right time. If it's there simply for synergy with Ensnaring Bridge, I think there are better options. This build in the above post has no beaters except for 3/1's from 6 mana Chandra, which is a 1-of in the list. Additionally, you have Torch of Defiance AND Pyromaster, both of which give you "card advantage" during your turn, without turning on Ensnaring Bridge.
Although the mirror is generally very unfun, I enjoyed this match. As I told Jeff in chat I didn't know the planeswalker rule kicked in early before the official release of IXL. I've since been playing a list with 3 chandra, pyromaster. Not a fan of 6 mana cards so I'm not playing flamecaller, and I like just playing more pyromasters vs cloister because it's more flexible and not an artifact.
Not in front of my PC at the moment but I'll post the list tonight. Got a 5-0 this morning with it, it's been strong. Also playing 3 sorcerous spyglass in the board and I'm going to try 4. It's been incredible at dealing with cards we traditionally struggle against, namely JTMS, EE, pernicious deed while also being flexible enough to always do something even when we're not naming a scary card.
Congrats man! I watched the link above of Hoogland 5-0ing. Got me interested in jamming some Legacy again. I'm also not sold on Cloister, but I am excited for the potential gains the deck gets with Spyglass.
I do too. It makes it relivant that it doesn't trade versus Snapcaster/Pyromancer/Thalia/etc. like rablemaster.
Then again, it could be that the days of traditional stompy are over. I've gotten this notion after playing in several tournaments over the past year or two that our creatures, vis à vis wincons, are outclassed most of the time. Winning in the red zone isnt what it was. Perhaps the debate over rabbles vs garrison vs arc slogger etc is moot. Do we need to just go oops, all Chandras and bridges and sweepers? This is a legit question
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Hey guys,
I played a small 4 rounder yesterday and went 2:2, not great but it was closer than it looks.
Round 1: UR Delver Won 2:1
Round 2: BUG Control Lost 1:2 (Totally mana screwed in G2+3 and no Moon effects at all)
Round 3: UR Delver Won 2:0
Round 4: Burn Lost 1:2
The two UR Delver MU's felt easy but burn is nearly unwinnable because they have so many stuff to play around Chalice especially in postboard games. The nonexistent clock doesnt make it better.
I got super unlucky vs BUG Control and was totally screwed in G2+3 after landing Chalice on 1+2 but with only 2 Mountain in play for the rest of the game. In G3 I had a good 1st turn with chalice but double Ancient Tomb without any red source until T8/10 or whatever sucked hard, a TNN killed me in 2 swings after he decayed my lonely Bridge.
I was not happy with 4 Great Furnace because of so many PoP im the room and I also dont like it vs Wasteland or Kollaghans Command...Will go down to 2 for the future, its enough to support 4 Quicksmith Rebel.
I will also replace 2 Hazoret with 2 Chandra Pyromaster because most of the time he cant attack because of bridge and paying 3 mana for a worse shock is not that strong I think, Chandra Pyromaster gives us more extra draws and the 1 damage ability is more relevant than one think.
4 Quicksmith Rebel were strong and I really like this guy! Totally worth it.
Nevertheless I will try out the new Chandra version without any big beaters because its quite good positioned in a value grindy meta with so many 4c CzechPile/Stoneblade/BUG/Grixis decks out there. I also really like the fact that it totally blanks the opposing removal spells and has great synergy with the 6 sweepers in the MD and around 4 in the SB.
This was my list
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Quicksmith Rebel
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Hazoret the Fervent (Now 2 Chandra Pyromaster)
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Fiery Confluence
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chrome Mox
7 Mountain (Uped to 9)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace (Now only 2)
Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Kozileks Return
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Sudden Shock
2 Abrade (Now 2 Koth of the Hammer)
2 Sulfur Elemental (Now 2 Boil)
1 Trinisphere
Greetings
Last edited by Manipulato; 10-01-2017 at 02:42 PM.
Currently playingEldrazi
Do you have the deck list for your 5-0? Did you record your matches?
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http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17027&d=305342&f=LE
Currently playing
I think so as well. As much as I like rable/garrison and smashing in. I played a lot of games the last 2 weeks with the garrison and then I cut them wanting a sweeper or lock or mana. I think the meta hate (online at least) has tuned to creatures and makes creature threats not the best right now. I am running 2/4 split pyromancer/torch and I am still running 2x Hazoret. With chalice on 1 and Indestructible I feel this is pretty safe, Hazoret has won the game itself with just the discard ability more than once for me.
Here is my list for reference
before
https://imgur.com/zYn7jRz
MD:
-4 Garrison
+1 Lotus Petal
+1 Fiery Confluence
+2 Rolling EQ
SB:
-1 Abrade
+1 Trinisphere
after
https://imgur.com/ucEDiPc
Hey Stompinistas:
Tournament impressions for the advancement of the deck and your own play.
Mox Boarding House Legacy Preservation Series 1k
9/30/17
1st place (68 competitors)
5-1-1 in swiss
Moon Walker Stompy (inspired by JA Eliso's list here)
Watch the VOD here while you can
List:
4x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2x Koth of the Hammer
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Hazoret the Fervent
4x Blood Moon
3x Magus of the Moon
4x Fiery Confluence
3x Rolling Earthquake
3x Trinisphere
3x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
11x Mountain
SB:
4x Faerie Macabre
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Pyrostatic Pillar
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Null Brooch
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
3x Chaos Warp
1x Ghirapur Aether Grid
Reasoning for this deck:
- Meta. Despite my own solid results tinkering with a Grixis Control list for several 1k events, I decided to stop fighting fire with fire and instead use water - a soaking, drenching, tidal wave of water. Dragon Stompy tosses cold water all over my local meta which strongly mirrors the online meta (Czech Pile, flavors of SFM control, and creature decks). Furthermore, there are a number of "zaggers" who opt to try to beat those decks (Lands and Aggro Loam players, for example). Moon Stompy has a positive matchup against all of those decks and more, therefore I chose this deck. There were a few more "zaggers" than expected at this event and many Burn players showed up, thankfully I dodged most of them.
- Recent deck advancements. The advancements in the deck have been phenomenal recently. Moving AWAY from creatures and embracing the direction to which Fiery Confluence naturally moves us is the BEST direction for us. Rolling Earthquake was a great find as Fiery Confluences #5, 6, and 7.
- Rules changes and Ixalan. Chandra, Pyromaster is much better than Bottled Cloister (though I did very much enjoy playing the latter). Playing her side-by-side with our MVP Chandra, Torch of Defiance is a great feeling. Also, Sorcerous Spyglass from Ixalan is super real, which I'll expand on below.
Individual cards:
- Chandra, Pyromaster. While I didn't go as far as the Chandra Stompy list posted earlier in the thread, I did include Chandra, Pyromaster in my list. I would go up to two next time. She is great and excellent alongside Chandra, Torch of Defiance. I never used her +1 but I could see where it might be useful. The planeswalker rules change is great. I haven't given any thought to using other Chandras, as Chandra, Pyromaster was an easy upgrade over Bottled Cloister. However, I wouldn't rule them out. Koth of the Hammer was solid but my next list will likely trim him to 1. I also might cut Hazoret in favor of another planeswalker.
- Sorcerous Spyglass. This card is real. It dodges our own creature sweepers AND isn't a 1-drop (Chalice). The peek effect is surprisingly strong. Look, this deck is all about making sorcery speed choices NOW that will affect the rest of the game. When you get to look at your opponent's hand at any point in that continuum, you fundamentally change your own decision-making. Sorcerous Spyglass should be a staple in this deck going forward. With that said...
- Faerie Macabre. Every out that my opponent's would sideboard in to beat me were designed to blow up permanents. Don't play more permanents, if you can help it. Faerie Macabre is better than Leyline of the Void for just that reason. Yes, there will be some % of games you lose because Macabre doesn't do enough, but I think the games you would lose because they can eventually beat your Leyline before your (slow) clock finishes them off are much more frequent.
- Chaos Warp. Yeah, this card is just what the doctor ordered. I think the card speaks for itself. Great catch all against troublesome permanents. The "drawback" is whatever and pretty entertaining, to boot.
- Rolling Earthquake. What a great find! Not sure who first implemented this card, but it complements Fiery Confluence. A few times I used it to "shorten" the game and KO my opponent. Besides its obvious creature sweeping effect, it also speeds up your clock to end the game instead of giving your opponent three or four more draw steps as you slowly deal 2 to them per turn with Chandra, TOD +1. Great card but I can see that three copies of it might be too much, depending on your meta.
- Abrade. I'd like to try this card next time. There were a couple situations where I'd prefer to have Abrade over other cards in my SB.
General deck impressions:
- Away creatures, hello prison. Yeah, we've been moving this way ever since Fiery Confluence became a four-of. Embrace it. Fiery Confluence is one of the best cards ever gifted to this archetype. It's anti-synergistic with goblins (whether caught or rabbled), revokers, rebels, etc. Just keep going with Rolling Earthquake. Embrace the sweep. Embrace the prison. I think that, if the meta were to be filled with Miracles in the future, a deck that incorporates creatures might be best... otherwise, let's please continue advancing the prison direction.
- Burn is really hard to beat. Not sure what to do about this. I guess we just hope to dodge? I wonder if there are cards to shore up the UR Delver matchup that might also be good here...
- ANT is really easy to beat. We can cut some SB hate and focus on other matchups.
- Sneak/Show and OmniSneak. Let's use our SB space here. Ideas for best cards?
- Add a lotus petal. I've seen this in recent deck lists and I like the change. Would consider for next time.
- Yeah, this deck is great. The recent changes and updates have made this a more robust deck. Maybe we can keep it secret for a while longer...
This was a great event and I highly encourage you all to attend one if you're in the area! Plenty of knowledgeable and skilled opponents. Among my prizes included an invitation to the "Legacy Preservation Series Invitational", which will be held in July. If you like watching Legacy streams, Card Kingdom streams every week on Mondays and once a month on a Saturday for these 1k's. You can catch me casting on there regularly and I'd be happy to answer any questions.
Would love your guys' impressions. Enjoy the VOD. I've added a few notes in the chat to some of the more apparently "puzzling" lines I had in the finals. I'm no expert with the deck and I sometimes miss triggers (don't we all) but I hope you enjoy the ride! I play against a gamely and courteous Eldrazi Taxes opponent - some of the highlights include T1 Chandra, TOD and gain the Monarch with SSG!
Last edited by korstructure; 10-02-2017 at 08:07 PM.
Regular Rolling Earthquake = 60$ ...
FTV FOIL Rolling Earthquake = 4$ ...
And I fucking hate, abhor, detest, vehemently oppose, and loathe foils. Fuck ... my ... life ...
If you're going with confluence AND abrade, I'd make a case for a one-off liquimetal coating. You can side in leyline of sanctity against burn but that's also not a guarantee. When you're sporting ancient tombs, burn is going to be tough.
I couldn't disagree more. In a deck with no selection, you shouldn't run bad cards to make good card better.
Agree with ZTurgeon. Though, there might be a future when there are enough of these split utility cards that a deck like this could work. There would have to be a hefty critical mass of quality cards at each CMC, though.
If Burn is heavy in your meta you could opt for a couple of Dragon's Claw in the Sideboard. Since both sides of the table play red that should keep you alive for a while.
Intriguing idea! Thank you. Another suggestion I heard was using Godo, Bandit Warlord along with Batterskull. Might be reasonable. Unfortunately for all of these suggestions: Burn sideboards in up to 4 Smash to Smithereens (and at least 2) against us. Regardless, it might be better than nothing!
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