[Deck] Vial Goblins

[Zombie]

You can also Kiki-Jiki that thing and just go absolutely postal on their board.

[kombatkiwi]

I'm going out on a limb and say that Volley Veteran is an upgrade to Incinerator because it does the same thing but is attached to a huge body at 4/2 (and counts itself.) It will always be Incinerator + 1 *and* a 4/2 or better to attack with, many times with haste from Warchief. In a deck where 4-drops are common (Ringleader) I don't think this is unreasonable at all, and likely better than Incinerator. Vial@4 isn't uncommon in goblins.

I may be completely wrong, it's happened plenty of times, but seems good to me.

I'm thinking of non-christmasland scenarios where you need to kill a thing before turn 4
At least in situations where removal is not very good Gempalm just cycles (or you are looking for a land etc)
It's very hard for me to view this as better than Lightning Crafter and I don't think there's space to play both (is also nuts with Kiki Jiki)

[Ace/Homebrew]

I'm going out on a limb and say that Volley Veteran is an upgrade to Incinerator because it does the same thing but is attached to a huge body at 4/2 (and counts itself.) It will always be Incinerator + 1 *and* a 4/2 or better to attack with, many times with haste from Warchief. In a deck where 4-drops are common (Ringleader) I don't think this is unreasonable at all, and likely better than Incinerator. Vial@4 isn't uncommon in goblins.

I may be completely wrong, it's happened plenty of times, but seems good to me.

I suspect Volley Veteran will be a better card in Goblin Stompy than in Vial Goblins.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

I suspect Volley Veteran will be a better card in Goblin Stompy than in Vial Goblins.

I'm in the camp that if either do anything for the classic archetype it will be Volley Veteran. The other one looks like Grenzo, Dungeon Warden to me, but not as large. Technically does what the deck wants, but fixes zero issues. Volley Veteran is comparable to Gempalm but leaves a relatively huge body for us. I'm really interested in testing out the 4/2. I think it's viable if you run a high number of Tarfire for the early game. It is probably better in stompy, but I am interested.

I liked Flametungue Kavu.

[Tokugawa]

Goblin Trashmaster
2RR 3/3
Other goblins you control get +1/+1
Sacrifice a goblin: destroy target artifact.

Potential?

[kombatkiwi]

Goblin Trashmaster
2RR 3/3
Other goblins you control get +1/+1
Sacrifice a goblin: destroy target artifact.

Potential?

Considering I've been maindecking Tuktuk Scrapper basically since it was printed I am gonna say hell yea
Where is this spoiled? (edit nvm, google)
All I ever wanted was a Goblin Manic Vandal so to get something that's arguably a lot stronger is a nice surprise

[LeoCop 90]

Oh my god, a playable goblin! A good goblin actually! Not that it will solve the real problems of the deck (beating combo) but it's a start. Let's hope at some point they will give us a goblin hatebear and a better goblin removal spell, and we will be good to destroy legacy :)

[potatodavid]

Goblin Trashmaster
2RR 3/3
Other goblins you control get +1/+1
Sacrifice a goblin: destroy target artifact.

Potential?

I mean this just flat out replaces Tuktuk right?

[Olaf Forkbeard]

I mean this just flat out replaces Tuktuk right?

Yes.

It's better in so many ways. Dodges, the who knows why anyone is running that, Torpor Orb. Bigger, more relevant effects. Can play cat and mouse with Stifle.

[egoblinsw]

Yes, I think this straight replaces Tuktuk, no question for me. It's arguably slightly worse with Kiki, but the oportunity to immediately kill multiple equipment, and the pump as a "worst case bad lord" make this awesome.

[Quackers]

Goblin Trashmaster, great card, better name.

We had a lot of buzz around it on the Legacy Goblins Facebook page, so I'll try and sum up some of the conversation over there to spark more conversation in this medium.

General Consensus is that he's good.
His floor, or worst case scenario, is that he sac's himself to destroy one artifact. (Not that bad)
His Celling is keeping all artifacts off the field until he is removed.
The ability is instant speed so no need for playing around flickerwisps or batterskull bounce.
Reduces the need for chieftain in classic lists that primarily have him in there for the anthem affect.
Reduces the need for a 2nd tuktuk in the board, freeing up a sideboard slot for our bad combo matchups.
He works better in the classic list than in the winstigator list. Main reason being mogg war marshal providing additional bodies. Additionally the cost reduction is great from warchief since the pump is redundant with chieftain.
This doesn't mean winstigator won't run him. Still generally better than Tuktuk.
Pithing needle becomes a problem if they know to name this card to protect their artifacts. Revoker less so, since we can kill it with removal. However, there are a lot better targets for pithing needle to name, such as vial.
He survives a jitte at 2 counters to be able to play an additional dork to then blow up jitte. (Albeit a bit mana intensive.)
The anthem affect is still great in matchups where artifacts don't matter.
Survives Elesh norn and provides anthem effect to allow other x/2's to stick around.
Food Chain enthusiasts are excited to sac squee to this guy for even more value.

Really a great card and it only takes 4 years of complaining for the little guys to get heard.

[Sagratho]

(...) since the pump is redundant with chieftain.

In a creature oriented deck, pump is never redundant.

Thats why Instigator List is better than Classical List. The Early pumped game from Instigator list is unstopable.

As merfolks plays... a lot of pump cards. In Instigator List, mana cost is not a problem ether. So maybe more than one Trashmaster MD.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Thats why Instigator List is better than Classical List.

Them's fight'n words. /s

I personally have had way more success with classic than WInstigator. WInstigator has a harder time pivoting beatdown and control, and I play better when I can get more malleable than that.

Some meta's though just need to be double Lackey'd into Goblin Settler, Kiki-Jiki.

[Quackers]

Them's fight'n words. /s

I personally have had way more success with classic than WInstigator. WInstigator has a harder time pivoting beatdown and control, and I play better when I can get more malleable than that.

Some meta's though just need to be double Lackey'd into Goblin Settler, Kiki-Jiki.

I've had success with both lists and I also first struggled with the winstigator pivot. I've found that the real difference between the lists, as I still run ports in my winstigator list, is MWM vs Winstigator. MWM is an amazing card and as is winstigator. However they operate on almost opposite spectrums. To explain my point I like to bring up the goyf scenario. 1 Goyf vs 1 MWM means 3 turns where the goyf will get chump blocked, that's great. 1 Goyf Vs 1 Winstigator, the goyf can't risk attacking at all because the threat of the crack back is far too great. This scenario exemplifies the proactive impact that winstigator has on the board state versus the reactive impact that MWM has. Winstigator does have a lot of high reward plays with forcing your lackeys through at the cost of some card advantage, however if you take the more conservative route when you need to, the game style is very much similar to the control style that classic plays in that scenario.

[jrw1985]

I am so ready for Trashman to be released. He really blows up some bad matchups. DnT can be super rough because they take over the late game with equipment. They could do so because our only answer (Tuktuk) fucking sucked and couldn’t answer multiple artifacts. Well, Trashman can kill all their equipment and their vials. DnT is no longer a close match for goblins. We should win it easy.

How nice is it that we don’t have to maindeck Tuktuk as Jitte insurance anymore? We had to devote a slot to a 4 drop that did nothing if opponents ran no artifacts , and also did not do enough if opponent ran multiple artifacts! Now if opponent runs no artifacts we get a cumulative pump for a combat and tempo advantage. And if opponent runs multiple artifacts we clear the board and laugh and laugh.

Trashman’s usefulness against combo is still suspect, but consider the following opening hand on the play: Lackey, MWM, Trashman and two lands. That lets us nuke five artifacts t2 or attack for 9 t3. Tuktuk by comparison would kill one artifact and the t3 attack would be for 5 damage. This shit ain’t close. Trashman all day.

Show and Tell has always been a rough match, especially when gobbos doesn’t splash white. Trashman doesn’t add a ton of value there, but if you play out two trashmen your horde is Pyroclasm-proof. Trumping a sweeper in any matchup is significant for us. It just gives us fewer ways to lose.

Miracles was already a good matchup, but Mentor could outrace and pressure us. Tuktuk did nothing there. Trashman at least has a bigger body so he doesn’t trade with Snapcaster and his pump helps us tremendously against Mentor tokens. More value added there.

The Trashman pump is also a significant advantage against the Grixis Delver decks. Having our goblins larger than Elemental tokens and DRS is super significant for combat math. Double Trashmen also protect each other from Bolts (something Chieftain did not). And there’s also insurance here against Marsh Casualties, even with the kicker.

The 4 color control matchup is improved in some significant ways. We can nerf Strix as necessary rather than attack into it. Toxic Deluge is no longer a one-sided sweeper because at the least X = 2, so their DRS can’t just hang out anymore. We also get another body too big for K Command to fuck with, and our x/2s are pumped out of K Command range.

I guess Trashman doesn’t do much against Br reanimator, but at least he does more than Tuktuk did. And he survives Elesh Norn solo, blanks it in pairs.

Dark Depths is a rough one, but Trashman kills Needle to turn on our Wastes, nerfs Expedition Map if they can’t immediately crack it, and makes x/2s beat Hexmage in combat. And of course, as against any style of combo deck, the Trashman pump should help us close out the game a little more quickly.

Damn, Trashman is value city!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Trashman has been testing really strongly for me. I'm not running finishers in testing, I'm running him.

[Sibelius]

Scatman has written an article on Goblins, hope you all enjoy it!

https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com/goblins-in-2018/


Sib

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Scatman has written an article on Goblins, hope you all enjoy it!

https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com/goblins-in-2018/


Sib

I did enjoy it, thanks Scat.

---

I've come to the conclusion that I am going to run 1 Trashmaster in pretty much all of my lists here on out, he's solid. He needs supplimented against D&T with actual shatter goblins or shatter effects though thanks to SB Pithing Needles totally shutting him down. 2 Abrade, Wear // Tear, or another Tin Street Hooligan and you are golden. He's more than a shatter though, he's a non-abrupt-decayable lord.

[woodjt5]

I played Magic for the first time in a while today in a 4 round Legacy tournament. I went 3-1 in the Swiss (wins: Grixis Delver, Grixis Delver, UW Stoneblade; Loss: Tin Fins) and then split the finals after a cut to top 4. Lots of Grixis Delver in the room. Here's my list:

4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
2 MWM
4 Matron
4 Warchief
2 Chieftain
4 Ringleader
2 Krenko
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (This will be a Trashmaster)

3 Tarfire
2 Gempalm Incenerator
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Stingscourger

4 Vial

12 Mountains
4 Cavern
4 Wasteland
2 Port

Board:

3 Ashen Rider (If Sneak and Show isn't around, these aren't necessary)
2 Blood Moon (this is the right number)
2 Chalice of the Void (this also feels right)
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Mindreak Trap (This should probably be another Cage)
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (This will still be a Scrapper after M19. I like the first better than a second Trashmaster)
1 Goblin Sharpshooter (Maybe this should be Chainwhirler?)

I played against Grixis Delver twice in the Swiss (2-0). It seems like they are playing with less True Names and less Cabal Therapy, both of which really improve the match up from our side. I only lost to mana screw and a top decked bolt on the turn before I could swing in for lethal.

I got a fairly easy 2-0 over U/W Stoneforge and lost 2-0 to Tin Fins. Neither match was particularly close. I will note that Spell Queller was annoyingly sized when playing Tarfires.

In the Top 4, I beat Tin Fins by expertly drawing my hate cards and then split with Grixis Delver in the finals. All in all, the deck felt pretty good.

I'll add a Trashmaster to the main after M19 is released and give Chainwhirler a try in the sideboard. I don't think the 4 mana 4/2 Flametounge guy is good enough. 4 mana is a lot and I prefer Gempalm for that effect.

[Quackers]

I played Magic for the first time in a while today in a 4 round Legacy tournament. I went 3-1 in the Swiss (wins: Grixis Delver, Grixis Delver, UW Stoneblade; Loss: Tin Fins) and then split the finals after a cut to top 4. Lots of Grixis Delver in the room. Here's my list:

4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
2 MWM
4 Matron
4 Warchief
2 Chieftain
4 Ringleader
2 Krenko
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (This will be a Trashmaster)

3 Tarfire
2 Gempalm Incenerator
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Stingscourger

4 Vial

12 Mountains
4 Cavern
4 Wasteland
2 Port

Board:

3 Ashen Rider (If Sneak and Show isn't around, these aren't necessary)
2 Blood Moon (this is the right number)
2 Chalice of the Void (this also feels right)
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Mindreak Trap (This should probably be another Cage)
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (This will still be a Scrapper after M19. I like the first better than a second Trashmaster)
1 Goblin Sharpshooter (Maybe this should be Chainwhirler?)

I played against Grixis Delver twice in the Swiss (2-0). It seems like they are playing with less True Names and less Cabal Therapy, both of which really improve the match up from our side. I only lost to mana screw and a top decked bolt on the turn before I could swing in for lethal.

I got a fairly easy 2-0 over U/W Stoneforge and lost 2-0 to Tin Fins. Neither match was particularly close. I will note that Spell Queller was annoyingly sized when playing Tarfires.

In the Top 4, I beat Tin Fins by expertly drawing my hate cards and then split with Grixis Delver in the finals. All in all, the deck felt pretty good.

I'll add a Trashmaster to the main after M19 is released and give Chainwhirler a try in the sideboard. I don't think the 4 mana 4/2 Flametounge guy is good enough. 4 mana is a lot and I prefer Gempalm for that effect.

Hey, Congrats on your good run. I was wondering why only 2 ports? Also, how is piledriver nowadays.