[OLD] UGb Threshold

[Shugyosha]

Bad plan. Really bad plan. Considering that the typical threshold manabase looks like this:

No it isn't (look at the 2nd place; the deck made top8 more than once). It's just a bad plan in a deck that plays Stifle/Waste and it fits white better because you can also board Teeg against Landstill.

The non-Waste base of every Threshold deck but 4/5c can be build to contain 3-4 basics and 8-10 fetches. 2-3 constant mana sources is all you need with this deck.

[Valdez]

i worked the list out, in expectation of a loam/landstill meta, based on a list of "der_imaginäre_freund".

nqg/w is also a special case, cuz you're able to fetch every basic and still every dual with any fetchland.
nqg/b has by far the worrst manabase for b2b in that regard, since we don't have any b/g or u/g fetchlands.

[raharu]

*Facepalm* That's a list that BattleToadz was working with a while back before Internet Hate Machine had 5c threshold built. I can't believe that I forgot about that, but it still stands that it's a miserable idea in UGb.

[Adan]

No it isn't (look at the 2nd place; the deck made top8 more than once). It's just a bad plan in a deck that plays Stifle/Waste and it fits white better because you can also board Teeg against Landstill.

And that is why it IS bad. That was always the problem of UGb Threshold, it might be consistent, but the manabase sucks since you don't have access to the Basic Forest which might be essential in certain metagames. Running Windswept Heaths/Wooded Foothills would ruin the manabase and make it inconsistent.

Ok, I never played non-Island lands in Threshold, but that's why I am not running Back to Basics. Since no one plays Loam anymore (Eternal Garden/42Lands) I don't find it necessary. It requires a lot of setup as well.
I prefer to maintain the manabase with cardquality and Pithing Needle.

[Holiday]

Has there ever been discussion about including Hymn to Tourach? With the BB casting cost the manabase would probably need to be altered and I am not sure if it is feasible. Thoughts?

[Adan]

Has there ever been discussion about including Hymn to Tourach? With the BB casting cost the manabase would probably need to be altered and I am not sure if it is feasible. Thoughts?

Simply "No"? What sense should it make?

[Poesjuh]

// Lands
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [b] Tropical Island
1 [PT] Forest (1)
1 [APL] Island (3)
2 [b] Underground Sea
1 [IA] Plains (1)
2 [u] Tundra

// Creatures
4 [OD] Nimble Mongoose
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [RAV] Dark Confidant

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [NE] Daze
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [LRW] Ponder
3 [CS] Counterbalance
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
2 [LRW] Oblivion Ring

How would a list like this (4C) look like without Counterbalance? I really don't like that card, it's just to lame for me since I won't be playing any tournaments I think, just with friends. I'd like to play 4C because I generally like StP and Mystic Enforcer, but also want to include Dark Confidant en Thoughtseize. Please consider that I'm an absolute newbie to legacy and I've never played a Thresh deck before, I'm just a bit stubborn with some things. That's why I don't want to play Counterbalance :P I'd like to play a deck that's a little more agressive.

I think that my list would look something like this:

// Lands, 18
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Windswept Heath
2 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Plains
2 Tundra
(copied from above as you can see, possible that this will change a little)

// Creatures, 13
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
1 Mystic Enforcer

// Spells, 28
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Thoughtseize
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Vindicate

1 slot left ^^ I think for maybe an extra land, Enforcer, or some random tech.

Would this be any good?

[Brushwagg]

I can say I don't like the mana base at all. It's nice that you play around Moon effects and Wastelands, but it looks like you could get color screwed easy.

List without Counterbalance.

4x Delta
2x Strand
4x Trop
3x Sea
2-3x Tundra
1-2x Island
( This is close to what I would run in 4color). But it gets wrecked by a resolved Moon. Probably needs some tweaks.

4x Goose
4x Goyf
3x Bob
1x Mystic?

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
3x Predict

4x Force
3x Daze
3x Spellsnare/Counterspell
4x Thoughtseize
4x STP
2x Engineered Explosives.

SB: This is what I would run in my meta.
3x Krosan Grip
3x BEB
3x Crypt
3x Stifle
1x E.E.
2x Echoing Truth/Rushing RIver/Snapback (For Moons)

@Top: There is really no reason to run Top without Counterbalnce. You have Brainstorm and Ponder to fix your draws.

@Vindicate: Not sure about this. It costs 3 and it needs two off colors. So..

[Poesjuh]

Oke, thx, that lookes pretty solid :) Which card is better, Predict or Serum Visions?

[Elf_Ascetic]

Oke, thx, that lookes pretty solid :) Which card is better, Predict or Serum Visions?

Predict.

[raharu]

Predict.

But if you want to play another cantrip, there's always Portent :3

[Poesjuh]

I was just wondering if I should play Portent or S. Visions, hence the question.

edit: I meant Predict vs S. Visions obviously. However Portent is also a good alternative offcourse :)

[Brushwagg]

Well I like something that draws extra cards outside of Bob. Since he usally draws alot of hate. Portent and Serum Visions only cantrip and you can find yourself with a empty hand alot of the time. Hell that happens even with Predict in the deck.

[Shriekmaw]

I was just wondering if I should play Portent or S. Visions, hence the question.

If you are looking for a third cantrip outside of brainstorm and ponder, I would have to go with portent since it lets you dig a lot deeper in the deck than predict. I always believed that card quality outweights card quantity. This is especially true in threshold.

I still prefer the canadian version of the deck, but this would be my second choice. I love the fact that top/counterbalance have been cut in some lists. I believe the deck gets a lot stronger by not including those cards.

[Elf_Ascetic]

I believe the deck gets a lot stronger by not including those cards.

Come on, if you state something like that, at least explain WHY you think that.

[Poesjuh]

I have no idea what list is stronger, I just personally don't want to play counter-top, looks to boring to me. Given the fact that I only play casual with friends it doesn't really bother me :)

[undone]

Isnt dark confidant needed as a 4 of? It seems like this deck is so much worse without one in play.

Is smother or ghastly demise better as the removal spell?

Why are some lists cutting the 4th daze?

[Shriekmaw]

Isnt dark confidant needed as a 4 of? It seems like this deck is so much worse without one in play.

Is smother or ghastly demise better as the removal spell?

Why are some lists cutting the 4th daze?

I guess it depends on what version of UGb threshold you are playing. I really like the tempo thresh version that plays snuff out as your removal. I like the card a lot better than either smother or ghastly demise.

I don't really like Dark Confidant. I understand the card advantage he provides, but I think the loss of life is something to consider. You are already playing fetches and thoughtseize, along with snuff out which I love.

[b4r0n]

I guess it depends on what version of UGb threshold you are playing. I really like the tempo thresh version that plays snuff out as your removal.

Is Ugb Tempo Thresh really any better than Team America? Or is Team America what you're referring to?

[Adan]

I think he's referring to this (very terrible) list:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=21766

Not playing Dark Confidant is like... SRSLY WTF. Well, Snuff Out has got a huge anti-synergy with Dark Confidant, maybe that is the reason why he's not playing Dark Confidant, but Dark Confidant is just too good.

While the red variant only played 8 creatures (according to goobafish because no other creature would have fit into the concept), Black has got Dark Confidant which fits right into the concept of the deck.