I wanna play a fast aggro version, with a CC very low...i didn't like the black version very much, but maybe it's my head that wouldn't see blackOriginally Posted by danielcrocker
Has anyone ever tested a red/black/white version? I splash black for weirdings, but I miss my plows and disenchants. I know green has grip, but plows are just so good...
3c goblins plays a lot differently than 2c goblins.
The jump from mono to 2c is much less significant than the jump from 2c to 3c for this deck.
With 2c, you are always splashing one color.
However, with 3c (in your case RBW), you'd have to be careful about what you fetch. Fetch black, draw swords. Fetch white, draw weirding. It would make it much more difficulty.
And honestly I don't think that would be worth it.
As an aggro deck, we should keep our objective more focused.
So personally I think it's probably a bad idea.
And to the guy who said the white splash is inferior to the black splash, that is untrue. Current metagame, black is probably better. But people can have funky metagames. And I think that's the general consensus.
White has proven it can place, though it was a while ago, it had two in the t8 of an SGC event. One was even playing path to exile.
Well I was considering it as an alternative to RBG. The split second ability of grip is very important, but plow is better targeted removal than anything RBG can muster up, so it's worth considering IMO. As for RB vs RW, I still like RW but feel I need to run non-targeted removal for decks like reanimator and NO bant.
Tariff isn't horrible for NOProg or Reanimator, as far as a white alternative. It's a double edged sword, so it's bad CA and tempo, but I don't think they'll be paying 7-10 mana for their creatures, since the point is not to.
I will just move the discussion from the R/B Tribal Goblin thread to here:
As said before: Tin Street is useless for me a lot of times just because it needs to be cast, therefore can be countered. You can even shoot yourself by having a warchief ingame which makes it impossible to destroy Jitte with Tin Street.
From my point of view an active jitte is gg like 60% of the time, assuming Turn 3/4. When it comes down late, it's too late.
The most fearsome decks i've met with jitte are cbtop-bant and u/w tempo, everything else seems to be quite fair. Anyhow my gameplan vs jitte, because nothing outside of Krosan kills it effectively, is to just ignore it and kill the creatures it's attached to.
Thanks to perish this works better vs bant than vs u/w tempo and death & taxes, damn mothers shutting down the spot removal.
Maybe i should also give needle a spot in the sb.
It is a common misconception that warchief stops TSH.
It's not true. Please test him for a couple weeks before judging. I used to have the same belief, but when I tested him, it's clear that that interaction is surprisingly irrelevant.
If warchief is in play, you are probably doing fine. It is usually immediately targeted by jitte anyways, at least by good players (and bad ones you might be able to play around the jitte).
Decks with Jitte + Counters are usually fairly good matchups. Merfolk, random fish decks, the majority of bant decks, etc. UWT I assume is a bad matchup (because it's the best deck in the format of course) but I don't worry about that deck so much for now.
We will have to wait and see how popular stoneforge mystic is before deciding if we need to reevaluate our jitte hate.
TSH is not that great of a card. But as far as goblins that destroy jitte, he stands out above tinkerer and scrapper. It's a metagame consideration.
But the best answer to jitte is often just killing the creature, like you said.
Jitte is a tempo sink. If we play with this in mind, and try to take advantage of the lost turn (unless its t4 already then you're fucked hah), it is easier to play around.
Has anyone had trouble against new horizons?
"don't call me a dog ...just say it backwards "
Nope. Perish is there for us.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Do you still run Pyrokinesis now that you run Perish? (havent had any testing in lately)
I'm running this sideboard atm:
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ravenous Trap (maybe switch these for Relic)
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Perish
3 Kinesis
1 TukTuk Scrapper
2 Anarchy
I would like to add Cabal Therapy against combo (ANT) but I'm hesitant to run less graveyard hate. So that would mean getting rid of Kinesis or Perish or a combination of both and possibly TukTuk Scrapper.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
Yes, I do. One is not a substitute for the other. Knesis is a must agains't Goblins, Folk, Elves, GStompy, Slivers, Death and Taxes, and Zoo (also useful un other MU's, like fish, Dredge, fearies, etc.). Of those, I only side in Perish agains't Zoo, gStompy and Elves (of course). Perish now also owns New Horizons, Counter Top, Tempo Thresh, NoProg, Bant Aggro, Supreme Blue, Survival...
I don't see me running thm both in my board any time soon.
My SB is like this:
4 Planar Void
4 Perish
3 Kinesis
1 TukTuk Scrapper
2 Pithing Needle
1 Red Elemental Blast
I only run 4 grave hate cards, because thats all I ever felt I needed. And I chose Planar Void after a whole lot of testing, and it has proven to be the best option for me.
1 Scrapper, 2 Needle and 1 REB aer meta choice, though I think Needle is underplayed.
Teh only combo hate I run is 1 MD Earwig Squad. I just plan on not getting paired agains't them.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
@ Nelis, I don't think you should play ravenous trap. The #1 priority for GY hate today should be too hit reanimator. Hitting other decks is nice too, and most graveyard hate will. Ravenous trap sadly falls short. But pretty much every other GY hate card does hit them and other decks.
Do you ever board in 4 perish + 3 kinesis together? That just seems like a hella lot...
I havent been testing at all lately so I never tried it out. Atm I'm basically going on advise of you guys. I'm not sure if I would play them together. I do feel that kynesis isn't good enough vs Zoo so I would probably only put in perish. But I'll have to test.
@Scatman X: I dont want to mulligan towards graveyard hate. I have bad experiences vs decks that depend on the graveyard so thats why I want 6.Planar Void is a nice choice but I feel that vs certain decks you want to remove whole graveyards especially if there's already a few cards in those graveyards.
I already was thinking of changing Mindbreak Trap into Relic so that's a definite. I also forgot that Perish is also good vs Progenitus so those Anarchies are removed from the sideboard.
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Perish
3 Kinesis
3 Cabal Therapy (maybe, just maybe add another one in and take out 1 graveyard hate, or otherwise add 3 Thoughtseize.)
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
I have 3 questions to ask:
1. What do we do against moat if we don't use anarchy? Do we just swarm and ping with Siege-gang?
2. Is leyline as effective as crypt, relic, macabre?
3. How effective is cabal therapy against combo adn what do we name when when playing it?
"don't call me a dog ...just say it backwards "
Just agains't Zoo, and I don't think that's over kill. Actually, overkill agains't Zoo is fine. Post SB I have 3 Gemplam, 3 Weirdings, 1 Stingscourer, 4 Perish and 3 Knesis, and am really happy with that. Knesis gets better if they're running Lavamancer of Figure of D., but it is always great to have.
@ Nelis: I understand the the slots agains't grave, but don't think they're so necessary in my meta. If it were, I'd probably run youre those 6 cards.
@danielcrocker: from those questions, I can only anweser the 1st. YES. If you have Lightning Crafter, better, but SGC is enough. 1st: keep a fast hand.Then you should have inflicted a lot of dmg by turn 4-5. 2nd: use Wastelands and Port; they delay Moat. 3rd: Vial is your best friend. Vial SGC in the end of they're turn, sac a shitload of goblins, then do it again your turn, before Warth. StP/Path are a problem, but you can sac him in repsponse, and get him back with (a vialed) Wort later.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
1. I ignore Moat. I don't feel its common enough to worry about. The decks I want to be able to fight are: Zoo, ANT, Ichorid, Merfolk and to lesser extend Aggro Loam, *****, countertop variants and the mirror.
Against most other decks the sideboard cards are also good or the deck itself is good enough to fight them. I don't care about decks like Enchantress, Staxx. They're tough matchups for sure but they're never really contenders to win an tournament. Sure there are people who play them but should I come across them i'll take my losses.
Basically my philosophy is: Only put in cards vs your hardest matchups (ANT, Ichorid) unless the deck is not that common (Staxx, Enchantress)
2. Leyline sure is effective but I just don't like them. You always have to mulligan towards them. Of course it's the same against the real hard match ups like Dredge with the anti graveyard cards I run. But there are also a lot of matchups where you dont need graveyard removal on turn 1 but later. It has the same problem like Planar Void, it does not remove cards already in the graveyard. And what if you want to play it and are stuck on 3 mana or stuck on 1 black source? That's why I'll never play them.
3. Combo will always be a very hard match-up, if people decide not to take combo into account in building their sideboard I completely understand. I wouldn't play Cabal Therapy if it wasn't good vs other decks as well. It gives you a chance to get rid of Moat for instance. That's why I like to have some form of discard in my sideboard.
Vs ANT I think its best to name Infernal Tutor. Just hope they don't have a brainstorm in hand. Other options are Mystical tutor or Ad Nauseam. But I'm not 100% sure on that.
Vs Belcher I think it should be Goblin Charbelcher beacuse it's auto lose. At least we have a fighting chance against Empty the Warrens, which can always be named once you've seen their hand.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
For question 3, I wouldn't name mystical tutor if they have a mana open for obvious reasons. LED, ritual, and infernal are all good options IMO. But I wouldn't play cabal therapy as an answer to combo for the same reason I dont like thorns or pillars. You can't be sure you'll pick the right piece out unless you've seen their hand, so you often have to wait until turn 2 when you flash it back. Answers that wait until turn 2 can lose to combo. A quicker answer is a duress, thoughtseize, mindbreak trap, or chalice for 0. Another consideration is that they'll play discard on turn 1, which pretty much rules out mindbreak trap and the 2-drops.
This is my SB:
x3 Pyrokinesis
x1 Tuktuk Scrapper
x3 Tormod's Crypt
x2 Relic of Progenitus
x3 Chalice of the Void
x3 Thoughtseize
I'd love to find room for Perish, but I'm having a worse time against ANT and Dredge than Zoo at the moment, so it's hard to justify taking any of those cards out.
If there's that many combo I think its better to play something else. But if I would have to play in a combo heavy environment I would also cut Perish.
Yeah the discard they play is so annoying. I understand why you don't like cabal therapy but I really like the fact that it can take out two of their cards. I really have to test more to see if its really worth it but nobody around here plays ANT and I'm not good at playing combo at all myself.
I asked in the ANT topic btw. 1 reaction so far.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
If you cast CT VS ANT, name Dark Ritual or LED when you have 0 information about their hand. Your plan should be to slow them down and kill them.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
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