No
Yes
I don't think 241ing with Mogg Fanatic is that important to Mogg Fanatic's viability in Goblins because there aren't that many 1/1s or 2/2s Mogg Fanatic is going to meet with in the combat step but given the popularity of Exalted Hierarch and Green Sun's Zenith alone it's still a R Stone Rain that curves out the deck and has more relevant targets now vs. Ux decks than it did pre M10.Originally Posted by Gheizen64
Despite the nerf, I think the card is worth playing more now than before.
My vote is NO on the brainstorm ban. The format is fine. And I've only owned blue duals for a month now. Snapcaster on any 1 mana spell, especially removal, is still going be just as strong without brainstorm. And without brainstorm in the format snapping back preordain or ponder would actually be a pretty common play. To be sure, bolt and swords will still be more common targets, but if the best draw spell available is ponder/preordain, why wouldn't you want to snap it back?
Just print a red 2/1 for two with a sick ability and we'll call it even.
Mother of Runes + Ethersworn Canonist = Best friends.
"I made a Redguard that looks like Kimbo Slice. He wrecks peoples' shit. And dragons." - Bignasty197
I disagree. I think Snapcaster makes pretty much every one-drop instant and sorcery that is widely played oppressive. Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Stifle, Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, High Tide, hell even Dismember. I wouldn't even be surprised to see some weird non-High Tide Storm deck pop up in the next few months that abuses it somehow. It just does too much for too little investment. I'm not saying anything should be banned yet, but if it comes to that Snapcaster is the clear target.
If I'm casting Snapcaster Mage targeting Brainstorm, I feel like I'm probably way behind and need a miracle to pull out a victory, and if that's the case, I probably already have one in my hand. All of that cheap removal and countermagic is what makes Snapcaster so scary, not being able to blow Brainstorms early knowing I can flash them back later. And really, if I am casting Brainstorm in my Snapcaster deck, it's usually so I can find a Snapcaster and use it to flashback something scarier than a Brainstorm.
What kills me is that the people calling for a ban are the same ones who argue to ban the engine card every time. Guess what, folks - Snapcaster is the engine card! Just because it's a creature doesn't make that any less true.
Because you don't get to do any nifty combat tricks with Snapcaster's flash ability. It doesn't really seem that relevant anyway... from my experience, 9 times out of 10 the card that gets flashed back is Swords or Lightning Bolt or some other form of removal anyway.
Jesus Christ People, the format is fine, leave it alone and adjust to changing times. That's what this is about, people want to point a finger rather then adapt to change. I've been reading this crap all over the place for over a month now. What's wrong with people these days. Do we have to ban everything? really? There is a format like that, it's called Modern, it's boring.
When I started playing this format it was pretty stable. Then a year, maybe 2 or so ago they banned Survival, a card that was concidered Tier2 until vengevine came along, then right out of the blue, lets not adjust people, lets ban, few months time, just like that, ban. And ever since it's like poeple want a ban every few months. That's what it feels like to me at least. I'm sure you all read sdematt posting 'Talking Shop...', well the guy makes sense. The fact that this poll says 78% No to banning Brainstorm makes sense. It's the people that complain that don't make sense.
Also what's the point of banning brainstorm. Do you really think combo is going to take the hit, really? No control is going to take the full hit. Decks that play 24 land and need brainstorm or die like UW BladeControl and Landstill. Combo adjusts like it always does.
I just think if the people who started this silly debate were seeing more GWx Maverick and Combo Elves decks in their meta they would not cry wolf so fast.
We just banned Mental Mistep and we have a brand new meta because of it, people demanding a ban after a ban this quick is just absurd.
The ban on mental misstep did feel a little fast--some decks got hosed by it, but some decks get hosed by new cards every set.. They should wait a good year or so and get enough tournament results in before they do anything.
I am not directly interested in this discussion because I dont play legacy, but I watch the format for a while...
I never understood banning of Mental Misstep. I have seem many red decks with 4 Lightning bolts, dropping first mountain and start to burn... If you pay 2 life for phyrexian mana - well the spell was countered :D Creature/permanent removal on CMC 1 is something different of course.
Spell able to counter CMC 1 spells specifically got banned only because people are used to play on very low mana base... Ok, next edition came out wth... There is CMC2 creature with flash with possibility to re-cast those low mana spells...
Snapcaster lowers the effect what mental misstep had on the format and Mental Misstep in format could make Snapcaster not as strong as it is now.
People are just used to play "the good cards", and when something is preventing to play them "oou its too strong, lets ban it". I have to congratulate to guys who are directly responsible for the Legacy bannings. Once Innistrad came out Mental misstep should be unbanned because of Snapcaster.
If the Brainstorm is strong because of Snapcaster, Mental Misstep back in format will make it weaker again.
Arguing that "blue is becoming too powerful" is not really good argument. How many people are playing mono red and how many people are playing mono blue?
I think most people will agree that Snapcaster into Mental Misstep would have been game breaking beyond compare. Snapcaster would not weaken Mental Mistep but make it even worse then it already was. I never called for the ban of Mental Mistep but I'm glad it is banned now that we have Snapcaster.
So you are saying it is nothing but a way better Gatekeeper of Malakir featured in blue. hmmmm
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
This thread is funny and all, but honestly ... the ban of brainstorm... just no.
Eternal format are powerful and blue will always be the best eternal color. This has almost ever been the case, this will almost ever be the case.
Once that said, it is just a question of how interesting is the meta right know and if it's balanced. And imo, yes it is very interesting and yes it is pretty much balanced, without any doubt. Yes brainstorm is powerful, but if I wouldnt like to deal with... well I would certainly play modern.
When I see that in previous pages of this topic, brainstorm was compared to trall ... seriously. SERIOUSLY. Try to snapcast a trall and let me know how this could be compared to a brainstorm, even played 3 time. Tell me how broken is "BBB1 : put a 2/1 in play and draw 6 cards. you could play that at instant speed". Let's stay realistic.
I can imagine far better targets for snapcaster as Mental Misstep or Brainstorm. Dark ritual for example?
There is a bit difference between players who play constructed 60x4 decks and 100x1 decks. Some players still feel need of casting a spell in first turn, no matter of real impact on game. I as EDH/Highlander player have different opinion about this.
too many cards, chance to have cmc 1 or less on opening hand is quite low if you dont play one plan decks.
If someone is playing more than 20 cmc 1 cards in format where Mental Misstep is legal in 4 cards per deck , and then he start whinning that Mental Misstep is broken then I believe that problem is not with Mental Misstep, but with dudes who cannot evolve with metagame and adapt to new cards.
Mental misstep is far less broken as Daze or Force of will. Gives oportunity to counter a spell at the beginning of the game, CMC 1 specifically, but it never affect as wide range of spells as FOW does.
No offense, but it feel like you never actually played against misstep. Not playing 1 cmc spells isn't a viable strategy in this format. Not playing 1 cmc spells would be like not playing duals because waste exist. The card is widely played even in vintage where decks like shop exist and where the 2 and 3 cmc slot is much more important than in Legacy (null rod, dark confidant, spheres, snapcaster, time vault, tinker, oath, chalice, standstill, mana drain, will, time walk, merchant scroll, demonic tutor etc...).
Considering the number of 1-toughness creatures, wouldn't an accel-powered Plague Spitter also be somewhat decent right now?
to Gheize:
I played not against it but with it, but in completely different format (EDH). There its impact is of course much smaller.
to make some better comparations, lets take few CMC 1 blue spells in stiflenought.
Lets say I have Island in play and Stifle, Brainstorm and Daze on hand. I have also Phyrexian dreadnought in library. Whan should i do?
I will not stifle the first fetch and wait for his first spell. If he plays nothing I try to brainstorm and then I possibly find the Dreadnought. I will cast him and then stifle. I the oponnent was smart he try to daze the Stifle. I will respond with my own daze.
Now which of those blue CMC1 cards are expendable? Brainstorm accelerated the situation, but its the Stifle and Dreadnought which is required for this deck to work... Each other card did a great supportive job, with acceleration or protection.
So if the Misstep would be legal in Legacy, then the opponent will be able to counter all of those four spells, althought he require only to counter single one - Stifle. And yes the Misstep is making it easier by paying life instead of tapping or bounce lands.
But read it also like this - pay CMC1, oponnent loses 2 life and discard a card.
Coin has always two sides. In the case with dreadnought it was pointing to the weakest point of the strategy. Directly destroys 2 cards, wastes 2 mana and indirectly reduces effect of Brainstorm. But is mental misstep so miraculous? No. Any sucessfull counterspell would do same. Even absence of Daze on my hand, while one daze present on the oponnents hand.
The basic question is whether is better to counter Brainstorm, or to deal with its subsequences. But Ban brainstorm, let say I play Halimar Depths instead of island or Ponder with island to keep daze working and let it work with , and next turn I will still be able to try stiflenought. with same result depending whether I have or dont have daze.
So much for Brainstorm banning. Its the most effective spell of this kind (because of instant speed), but its certain that there is plenty of spells with similar power level, so any banning of Brainstorm seems to me completely pointless no matter of snapcaster.
From my previous experience Brainstorm has great effect, but its mostly it is single card which I want to have on hand. If I require two or three cards it means that my deck screwed somehow and chance that Brainstorm will do the miracle is just extra chance, but not solution.
Exactly. If you want combat tricks you should have a target, or else you probably aren't running enough removal. But if you want to dig for something, flashing back a main phase preordain would be the play. Sure it's not as good as EOT brainstorm but if that's the best play for you then it's the play you make. Agreed that this would be rare, but other people have already stated that snapping back brainstorm happens rather infrequently anyway. It's an option, but a rarely needed one.
No offense, but you sound terrible. You're not going to Stifle their first fetch because you happen to have Dreadnaught in your library and instead are going to waste it on an irrelevant Brainstorm without a fetch up? Come on. That's like every cliche of a bad Legacy player all wrapped up in one example.
That's because you're using your Brainstorms terribly. I would think Force of Will was a bad card too if I was using it to stop irrelevant spells all day instead of Ad Nauseum.From my previous experience Brainstorm has great effect, but its mostly it is single card which I want to have on hand. If I require two or three cards it means that my deck screwed somehow and chance that Brainstorm will do the miracle is just extra chance, but not solution.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
Well lets be honest, the health of the format right now is harmed by the presence of Snapcaster Mage and I doubt that it's sustainable with these circumstances. This card obsoleted every kind of other conventional nonblue (non-dredge) strategy such as the Rock etc. People keep arguing that Delver is also a reason why the format has shifted to blue even more, but come on, it's just a nacatl which can be pitched to fow and it's power level isn't as high as snapcaster's by far...With this in my mind I keep redundant to test any blue deck right now as I feel that the format's current ban list won't be the same in near future and I highly suspect Brainstorm to be the one who gets the hammer...why? Seriously, if they banned Snapcaster (a card of the most recent set...) right after they banned Mental Misstep, I'd be definitely less confident with buying WoTC products any more. This may sound like ranting, but why would I spend so much money on a inprint legacy playable card, which might be listed in the next B&R Announcement anyway? This has been the case with Vengevine, Ad Nauseam etc. and those prints made them ban Survival and Tutor in the end. It's really sad that this seems to be the new trend but they got to sell their new sets I gues...
I never said that Snapcaster wasn't an amazing card - just that Brainstorm flashbacks have very little to do with it, in my experience.
A flying Nacatl that can be pitched to FoW and doesn't require a 3 color investment? It's leaps and bounds better than Nacatl, which until recently was the strongest one drop in the history of Magic. In blue. There are more Delvers in winning lists than there are Snapcasters since Innistrad's release. Delver is at least as responsible for Blue's recent surge as Snapcaster is.
Would love to play with the old RV! But doubt thats gonna happend :D Kinda self want to play thoes powerful 1 toughness creatures.
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