All B/R update speculation.

[majikal]

Fetchlands (lol), reusable with Witness and Loam.


EDIT: Gerry might now have played witness though.

He's talking about Knight of the Reliquary and GSZ.

I will be extremely fucking pissed if they ban something out of this deck. It's pretty much the only non-blue aggro deck that can compete in the current meta.

But I shouldn't expect anything less, honestly. Every time I've picked up a deck in Legacy and played it for more than a month or two, something has gotten banned from it.

[Dia_Bot]

I would really be surprised if they would ban something out of maverick. It just makes no sense to ban a perfectly fair (argueable but this is still legacy) tutor out of the only non-blue deck getting results in this "ocean" of blue deck decks.

[Barook]

I would really be surprised if they would ban something out of maverick. It just makes no sense to ban a perfectly fair (argueable but this is still legacy) tutor out of the only non-blue deck getting results in this "ocean" of blue deck decks.

It would be the perfect trolling for the Legacy community, though.

People everywhere going ballistic for at least two months about blue's dominance and banning Brainstorm - instead they'll rip apart the main anti-blue deck of the moment.

Oh, the irony.

[DragoFireheart]

WotC is extremely idiotic if they ban cards that will weaken Maverick.

[Erdvermampfa]

I could rather imagine Stoneforge Mystic being banned. They might cite it as a measure to weaken all those UWx Stoneforge/Jace decks, that are, in my view, one of the main reasons why all this hate against the typical Blue decks originated..

[Gheizen64]

I could rather imagine Stoneforge Mystic being banned. They might cite it as a measure to weaken all those UWx Stoneforge/Jace decks, that are, in my view, one of the main reasons why all this hate against the typical Blue decks originated..

Sadly i'm starting to think they'll do this

Man i can't even express my disappointment if they really do this.

[Deviruchi]

Since MMS ban to get to the finals of big (100+ people) tournament you have to:

1. Play blue with FoW
2. Play with blue but without FoW:
a) TES b) ANT
3. Play without blue:
a) Maverick b) Zoo

Making this format even more blue by making decks from point 2 and/or 3 even weaker would be very bad. I hope WOTC will notice it.

[Fl0do]

Here's a recent tweet from Forsythe: https://twitter.com/#!/mtgaaron/stat...18640905838593

I can't help but imagine that SFM (and maybe GSZ, though it sounds more like SFM) is in jeopardy of being banned, considering R&D already hates tutoring to begin with... especially a really powerful tutor like SFM. Am I being paranoid from a random tweet or is this something to be actually worried about?

Maybe its worrysome that a nonblue Deck has to play that much tutors to compete with the current metagame ...

I think there is some work to do regarding Show and Tell. In my opinion this is the main reason why Aggro-Decks are pushed out of the metagame by blue decks. Blue is the insurance to not get an autoloose against any combination deck and that's the reason why blue is overplayed. Because the shadow of combination decks is lurking everywhere and for this there are not that much reasons to play nonblue decks.
You can deal with Storm-Combo with the sheer amount of hatebears but against Show and Tell it can be very frustrating and unfun to get beaten by Emrakul or Hivemind with Counterbackup for your very narrow answers against those type of decks.

You have to ask yourself: Should Legacy become a), the combo format for everyone or should Legacy become b), a format where metagaming, deckbuilding and real interaction matters?

a) to play blue will become inevitable more and more to have a decent matchup against everytyhing.
b) playing combo will require more skill and effort you put in developing those decks to get an advantage, nonblue Decks will therefore get more viable and at least, combat math matters.

Just my thoughts about that. Feel free to discuss.

[BVB09]

I don't think the answer is to ban Brainstorm, Delver of Secrets or Stoneforge Mystic. They should unban some cards, they have to be ''brave'' in that sense, just they same way the print powerful cards like Snapcaster Mage, Delver of Secrets or Mental Misstep. What I think should be unbanned:

Survival of the Fittest
Land Tax
Memory Jar
Mystical Tutor
Mind Twist

Other cards I think they should consider are Earthcraft and Mana Drain... But possibly too risky.

[cheerios]

Sadly i'm starting to think they'll do this

Man i can't even express my disappointment if they really do this.

I would rather have them ban batterskull instead of stoneforge mystic to nerf stoneforge

[DragoFireheart]

I would rather have them ban batterskull instead of stoneforge mystic to nerf stoneforge

But that isn't how WotC works. They would ban the enabler first (SFM).

Frankly, I'm fucking sick of all this talk of bans. It's fine in this topic but It's getting old seeing so many "ban/unban" Brainstorm topics.

Mods, didn't you clearly state NOT to have talks of bans outside of this topic? Correct me if I am wrong...

[kiblast]

I'm really sad Survival will not come off the banned list soon. It should be the first card to be discussed to come off the banned list. I think that the right thing to do is not only to unban ''safe'' cards (Mind Twist, for example) but also to unban ''viable, and in fact good'' cards, that would shake the format a bit.
If we analyze the top tier decks at the moment, Survival is not even as close as a the good deck it was pre ban:

Maverick: has an insane amount of hate vs Survival, even maindeck, and things are even worse post side:

maindeck stuff:
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Green sun's Zenith

side:

0-2 Krosan Grip
0-3 Surgical Extraction
Enlightened Tutor toolbox
Bojuka Bog
etc...

RUG Tempo:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage

Thanks to those 8 slots, Rug should probably only worry about adding a 4th Surgical in his sideboard. Imho, Survival would have really hard times in trying to stop and race a turn 1 Delver + Disruption...

Now every color has access to an instant speed Extirpate effect, which is also reusable through Snapcaster by blue decks; and the most played non-blue deck seems to have a bye vs Survival on the paper. I really think Survival should come off the banned list.

Edit: Basically, imho they should unban SotF , Mind Twist and (probably) Land Tax. No bans.

[cheerios]

But that isn't how WotC works. They would ban the enabler first (SFM).

Frankly, I'm fucking sick of all this talk of bans. It's fine in this topic but It's getting old seeing so many "ban/unban" Brainstorm topics.

Mods, didn't you clearly state NOT to have talks of bans outside of this topic? Correct me if I am wrong...

Sad but true.

[Surging Chaos]

Sad but true.

I don't think it's sad to go the approach of banning the enabler instead of the card(s) that piggyback off of the enabler. The Necropotence fiasco back during old Extended showed what happens when you don't ban enablers... if you just ban the cards around the enablers, enablers will just find new friends to cause the same problems with. That's why Wizards banned Survival instead of Vengevine. Why risk a new card coming out that would break Survival in half if you banned Vengevine? Would you ban that card as well just so you could keep Survival afloat?

That being said, I don't want SFM banned at all. It would be silly to ban SFM in the same format that is littered with all sorts of ridiculous cards.

[Rizso]

Really hope they arent gonna ban either GSZ, stoneforge, brainstorm or what ever. Stoneforge and GSZ makes quite fair decks like Maverick little bit less unfair. In legacy you have to play unfair things to match your opponents unfair cards. Smashing with creatures is a fair gameplan that with or without equipments.

Even as versatile GSZ is in legacy I doubt it would be banned. Still Smashing with creatures in a format with storm combos, other combos, FOW, Jace and other unfair things.

[Koby]

I don't think it's sad to go the approach of banning the enabler instead of the card(s) that piggyback off of the enabler. The Necropotence fiasco back during old Extended showed what happens when you don't ban enablers... if you just ban the cards around the enablers, enablers will just find new friends to cause the same problems with. That's why Wizards banned Survival instead of Vengevine. Why risk a new card coming out that would break Survival in half if you banned Vengevine? Would you ban that card as well just so you could keep Survival afloat?

That being said, I don't want SFM banned at all. It would be silly to ban SFM in the same format that is littered with all sorts of ridiculous cards.

Hate to nitpick, but Necro is not an enabler. It's a fucking engine. One-card-fucking-combo. Survival is like that too, only requiring an obscene amount of mana. Land Tax is an engine also.

SFM on the other hand, is an enabler/tutor, but it doesn't do anything broken.

[sir]

It would be the perfect trolling for the Legacy community, though.

People everywhere going ballistic for at least two months about blue's dominance and banning Brainstorm - instead they'll rip apart the main anti-blue deck of the moment.

Oh, the irony.

Yup ... I would be extremely butthurt.

[Sloshthedark]

That being said, I don't want SFM banned at all. It would be silly to ban SFM in the same format that is littered with all sorts of ridiculous cards.

littered.. ridiculous cards (which ones?).. ahh people grow up or play standard...

I think the main problem of legacy is its growth - resp. new players who think they know the format after 2 months of playing it

btw. I'd love to have SFM (resp. Batterskull) banned, its so boring playing against it and brainless

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Banning SFM and GSZ probably returns Countertop, Merfolk, Goblins and Zoo as format heavy-hitters.

[Amon Amarth]

Banning SFM and GSZ probably returns Countertop, Merfolk, Goblins and Zoo as format heavy-hitters.

You're deluding yourself if you think this will actually happen, the antecedent or the consequent. I'm not sure why people all of a sudden wanted to ban really benign cards. They aren't format warping or terribly unfun, or combo cards, aren't ubiquitous or obnoxious enough by any metric that is used to ban cards. No, "boring" and "brainless" don't count either.