[Deck] Burn

[Forgottenforce]

Interesting builds, Jares. I myself have been slow to adopt HSE and always thought of Sparky as bolt 17-20. Keep us updated on the list turns out.

DKA has brought us little, mostly a new SB option but has anyone given any thought to Faithless looting (the first card and possibly the best card spoiled)? Since its printing Magma Jet, was often time considered a staple due to its ability to dig. Looting gives us this and more. It provides card quality, choosing to discard useless lands lategame for much needed burn. In addition, it accelerates threshold needed B. ring or fuel for the less favored Mancer. I think a build with HSE compliments Looting very way adding even more advantage to the card.

[jares]

Interesting builds, Jares. I myself have been slow to adopt HSE and always thought of Sparky as bolt 17-20. Keep us updated on the list turns out.

DKA has brought us little, mostly a new SB option but has anyone given any thought to Faithless looting (the first card and possibly the best card spoiled)? Since its printing Magma Jet, was often time considered a staple due to its ability to dig. Looting gives us this and more. It provides card quality, choosing to discard useless lands lategame for much needed burn. In addition, it accelerates threshold needed B. ring or fuel for the less favored Mancer. I think a build with HSE compliments Looting very way adding even more advantage to the card.

I guess the main reason for why I'm trying to swerve away from the direction of HSE is because I'm uneasy with the damage output of HSE for 2 mana, given that this damage also has to go through the combat phase (against other blockers, removal spells, etc.). Spark Elemental looks much more attractive to me specifically because of what you mentioned - it works like an extra Lightning Bolt, especially in the first few turns when there's less resistance. At the end of the day, though, HSE might be the superior choice because it's able to give a total of 6 damage.

DKA has been disappointing from the point of view of the Burn player, but I'm not surprised - how often to we get a new card that we can seriously consider anyway? I find that Faithless Looting might be useful in some configuration of Burn, but it's unlikely to be in the configurations that I'm using/testing. After all the pros and cons are left on the table, I still find that I'd be happier to draw into a burn spell with at least 3 damage rather than a Faithless Looting. I guess that this is why Magma Jet is the much more superior choice - because it deals 2 damage. Also, Magma Jet is able to provide the card filtering without the prerequisite of drawing into "dead cards" (as Faithless Looting will only be able to provide some value if you already have some cards to discard for it - this seems like a very strange prerequisite for card advantage). Filling up your GY is what the card is very good at, which is why Dredge has gone nuts when this card was printed (myself also being a Dredge player).

Cheers,
jares

[redhamjack]

Hey Guys,

Just got back from a small tourney in Ann Arbor. 14 people came out so we had 4 rounds with a cut to top 4. This report will be brief as I'm tired and doing this on my smart phone.

For refrence here is my list:



4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Rift Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Flame Rift
4x Fireblast
4x Price of Progress
4x Bump in the Night
3x Sensei's Diving Top
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Grim Lavamancer

9x Fetchlands
2x Badlands
8x Mountain

Sideboard:

3x Volcanic Fallout
3x Surgical Extraction
3x Pyroblast
3x Vexing Shusher
3x Sulfuric Vortex


I honestly don't know where the sb is going, I need to fix it asap.
On to the report:

Round 1 - Tezzfinity

Game one I keep a slow hand, not knowing what he's on and get blown out by dubs Signal Pest and a Etched Champion.

Game two he is slow and I price of progress him twice for 16 total damage.

Game three he has a pretty nut draw and I try to kill his guys but I made a couple big play errors. I killed a Vault Skirge thinking he had double black to move his plating instead of bolting the ornithopter. Then next turn, I kill the ornithopter in combat and scoop em when he moves it without realizing I would now be at 1 instead of zero cause of the one less artifact. Aww well, you live and learn. I should have won that match though.

Round Two - UWg Stoneforge Mystic

In this matchup, bridge was so money. When I played it, he kinda did a double take. Anyway bridge plus top and hellbent equals gg for him.

Game two I brought in vortexes and the were also amazing. A constant source of damage is so good. I kinda got lucky in this one. He had top active and couldn't find a Snapcaster, Counterballance (his sb plan) or a second krosian grip so I won.

Round Three - Enchantress

Game one, he resolves Solitary Confinement at 2 life, but eventually has to sac it because he violent get his draw engine going. I bolt him.

Games two and three: one card, leyline of sancity. I can't beat it. I don't run enough dudes to beat it at all.

Despite being out of contention for top four, I need experience for gp indy so I keep playing.

Round four - Pox with a twist

Game one I keep a slow hand and he wastes my badlands (first time all day) and keeps me off my mana. I discover his twist is a reanimator win con though.

Game two, I play much more conservatively. He reanimates something, playing eight life. Next turn I burn him out.

Game three, he never gets off one land. I hate it when that happens.

Overall, I went 2-2 (6-5) but had alot of fun. The Ann Arbor store is fun. The meta is diverse, and the players are genuinely nice too.

For the deck. Bump was ok, but felt gimmicky. I think I may cut it. Top and Bridge were mvps. Top gives you a ton of reach, and bridge is such a road block. Grim lavamancer was also underwhelming. The must I ever got out of it was 4 dmg and I felt like it just made their removal relevant. On the other hand, I was always happy to see vortex. That card is nice. All said thought, I'm pretty happy with how I did considering how long its been since I last played.

Finally, I need a better SB strategy. It felt so scattershot to me. Any ideas on that? Also, sorry for any typos. Blame my smartphone.

[jares]

Overall, I went 2-2 (6-5) but had alot of fun. The Ann Arbor store is fun. The meta is diverse, and the players are genuinely nice too.

For the deck. Bump was ok, but felt gimmicky. I think I may cut it. Top and Bridge were mvps. Top gives you a ton of reach, and bridge is such a road block. Grim lavamancer was also underwhelming. The must I ever got out of it was 4 dmg and I felt like it just made their removal relevant. On the other hand, I was always happy to see vortex. That card is nice. All said thought, I'm pretty happy with how I did considering how long its been since I last played.

Finally, I need a better SB strategy. It felt so scattershot to me. Any ideas on that? Also, sorry for any typos. Blame my smartphone.

I like the typo for Sensei's Diving Top - sounds like something from Unglued

My experience with testing Bump in the Night was also the same, and I concluded that the splash wasn't worth it.

I've been considering placing Sulfuric Vortex in the MD for some time now, and I'm happy to see good results for this card. I'm unsure, though, if the MD investment will be worth it. A few SB slots might be the best way to go.

As for the SB, mine currently looks like this:

2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Relic of Progenitus
4x Vexing Shusher
4x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Smash to Smithereens

I hope that helps.

Kind Regards,
jares

[264505]

I play burn a bit on MTGO. I was wondering what are the best options for SB graveyard hate? I have been playing with Relics, but they are pretty ineffective at stopping fast reanimator starts. I guess it really comes down to Crypt vs Macabre. Any thoughts?

[jares]

I play burn a bit on MTGO. I was wondering what are the best options for SB graveyard hate? I have been playing with Relics, but they are pretty ineffective at stopping fast reanimator starts. I guess it really comes down to Crypt vs Macabre. Any thoughts?

If Reanimator is your main concern, then I believe that Faerie Macabre is the card you're looking for, simply because it can't be countered (except for Stifle of course). Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus would work better against Dredge. Also, there's Grafdigger's Cage, but I personally prefer using the more definitive choices for GY hate, as Grafdigger's Cage can easily be bounced or destroyed if the opposing deck is prepared for it.

I hope that helps.

Kind Regards,
jares

[iamfrightenedtoo]

I am a decade long Pox player. I was getting tired of getting called a netdecker because of the recent uprising of Poxless Pox decks, so I decided to actually become a netdecker, and stole a friends Sligh deck.

I have really only one question.

I understand how to get by Reanimator, but is there something that Sligh can do after Iona resolves? I never really believe that just having the right cards in your deck will win, you have to draw them still.

Reanimator can be stopped, but with only having one color of spells in the deck, what can be done to get Iona off the table?

[Darklingske]

Except for stacking up in your Sb on both Surgical Extraction & Faerie Macabre (wich is not a good idea) there is not much you can do against them. Hope that they don't have the T2 Iona and that you have an opener with Faerie in it. Also watch out for the Exhume trick. If they want to exhume a non-critical critter (ie: no Iona, Imperial Archangel or Sphinx ot Steel Wind) just let them do it. If you remove the target, they can still entomb with the exhume on stack, but after the faerie has resolved.

[Darklingske]

Oh, and after DKA is legal, having some Grafdigger's Cages in the board doesn't solve your problems. You still need to have them in your opener.

[jares]

I am a decade long Pox player. I was getting tired of getting called a netdecker because of the recent uprising of Poxless Pox decks, so I decided to actually become a netdecker, and stole a friends Sligh deck.

I have really only one question.

I understand how to get by Reanimator, but is there something that Sligh can do after Iona resolves? I never really believe that just having the right cards in your deck will win, you have to draw them still.

Reanimator can be stopped, but with only having one color of spells in the deck, what can be done to get Iona off the table?

Unfortunately, based on my experience, there's not much that you can do except the "outs" that have already been mentioned. Some players here have opted to splash Blue for Brainstorm, Snapcaster Mage, etc., so that might provide some options in the SB (e.g. Chain of Vapor).

By the way, this is the Burn thread, and I believe that there's a thread dedicated for Sligh. You might want to check out that thread for an additional input.

Kind Regards,
jares

[lyracian]

Reanimator can be stopped, but with only having one color of spells in the deck, what can be done to get Iona off the table?

The only things you have left are Barbarian Rings, unearthed Hellsparks and any Artefacts you play. If there life total is low enough you might get there but mostly it is an auto-loss once she hits.

[dsck]

You could board in Phyrexian Metamorph, now thats something your opponent wont expect from burn

[jares]

You could board in Phyrexian Metamorph, now thats something your opponent wont expect from burn

Hehe, that sounds pretty sneaky. Which other match-ups will Phyrexian Metamorph help though?

Cheers,
jares

[Ace/Homebrew]

I'm not arguing for giving Metamorph a spot in the board, but it DOES get around Iona...

Also helps against:
Natural Order -> Progenitus
Umezawa's Jitte
Vendilion Clique
Thrun, the last Troll
Gaddock Teeg
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Let's you copy Batterskull too.

[iamfrightenedtoo]

I was thinking of Phyrexian Metamorph for deleting an Iona, and many other Legacy staples. That is what I used for Pox because mono black has the same problems every other mono colored deck has against Iona.

and to kill two birds with one stone,
Jares, I play a more burn oriented deck. Sligh players and Burn players have two different mind sets, I play like a Burn player, even when I played Pox. which is why I posted here, for like minded peoples.

[jares]

I'm not arguing for giving Metamorph a spot in the board, but it DOES get around Iona...

Also helps against:
Natural Order -> Progenitus
Umezawa's Jitte
Vendilion Clique
Thrun, the last Troll
Gaddock Teeg
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Let's you copy Batterskull too.

I guess the question is "how many SB slots do you give to Phyrexian Metamorph if you'll be using the card?"

I personally would rather be prepared by not allowing Iona, Shield of Emeria to come into play at all, which is why Faerie Macabre, Tormod's Crypt, and the like have become the staples for addressing graveyard-centric decks. Not only do these cards address "Iona, Shield of Emeria", they also address the entire game plan of the decks that you'll be boarding them in for. Having alternatives is always good, though.

Cheers,
jares

[jares]

I was thinking of Phyrexian Metamorph for deleting an Iona, and many other Legacy staples. That is what I used for Pox because mono black has the same problems every other mono colored deck has against Iona.

and to kill two birds with one stone,
Jares, I play a more burn oriented deck. Sligh players and Burn players have two different mind sets, I play like a Burn player, even when I played Pox. which is why I posted here, for like minded peoples.

It's worth noting that the recent Burn deck that placed 1st in the last SCG tourney was configured with a somewhat Sligh-like variation, but was, of course, built (and played) with a Burn game plan in mind.

Cheers,
jares

[troopatroop]

The reason Figure is good in Burn, is because the deck ALWAYS runs out of gas. If you haven't won, and you tried, you're going to be without cards, so Figure is the perfect mana sink for the deck. I also noted the lack of Grim Lavamancer, and while it's true that it's not a very "fast card", he's also playing Figure! Weird, I also don't like FoD. The reason I don't like it, is because Delver and Nacatl are much better one drops to be playing. Splashing in Legacy is so easy to do, that unless you really want Price to deal 0 to you, there's little reason not to be playing the best creatures. Hellspark, Keldon Marauders, and Figure just don't do it for me.

[iamfrightenedtoo]

Jares
you are right about Metamorph it is not worth the SB slot. Mcabre and whatever else Crypt/new cage (if you dig it) are more Viable, easier to cast and are not on the top of your mana curve.

[iamfrightenedtoo]

@ troopatroop
when I was thumbing through the cards while I was building a burn/sligh deck, I saw Figure of Destiny, sneered at it, and tossed it aside. needs 6 mana to finish it off, and for five mana it is a 4/4 seemingly large dork.
I have played Pox forever, and have played Affinity since I drafted it when Mirroden came out. I will tell you this.

While playing Pox, and I never played the new versions, I played with 4 Pox and 4 Smallpox, I was aggressive, I am a burn player, not a control player. while playing with 8 Pox effects in my deck, I more often than not found myself being able to cast a Corrupt. now, I have never played the card Corrupt 6 mana cost, to deal an amount of life loss to an opponent and gain that much life equal to the number of swamps you control, because in Pox it would be stupid. Never the less, almost every match I found myself looking for an answer thinking "I really wish I had a Corrupt right now."

So as I was thumbing through the cards, and after I had flicked the FoD out of the build, I looked over the card again, and remembered all my Pox matches, and put it back in. It is easy to get it to be a 4/4 which is pretty large in Legacy, and if it is really late in to the game for whatever reason, it is not outside the realm of possibility to make it an 8/8. it is, however, hard for me to deal with casting a 4/4 for five total mana throughout its transformation, since I have been casting 4/4s for free since 2003 when Mirroden broke the system. holy crap that was 2003? I have been playing Pox for a lot longer than a decade. its been almost 15 years, 1998.

I hate Mauraders(sp) hate them. every single one of my magic friends tell me to play them, they all give different reasons. most of them are because it will almost always kill off a Zoo creature, and the shock the player. But best case scenario, you cast it, deal one damage, then attack next turn unblocked, then it dies and deals a damage, that is 5 damage over 3 turns which is terrible and extremely inefficient.
I have always had similar arguments over Flame Rift, even before Yost got there with them, I have always thought Burn players should be playing it. What other spells beyond Price of Progress, and a free Fireblast deal 4 damage, for 2 mana?
Burn's clock is so much faster and consistent than any other decks, why would it matter that it also deals 5 to you?

I like Figure of Destiny, I like Hellspark Elemental, and I like guide. I liked it more when it was attacking me, and letting me nab my lands, but a hastey 2/2 for one isnt bad. that is about it as far as sligh goes. Figure also goes against what I believe in as far as MtG is concerned. Aggressive attacking, and I do not mean with creatures. Defense, is not in my nature, offense is. Figure is a defensive play, but not defensive towards your opponent as much as it is towards your deck mana flooding. Which is why I think it works.

as for Grim Lavamancer, I do not love the Manancer, some do some dont. But if you were to run it, why not run Cursed scroll? your in top deck mode so quickly, it would help in flood situations the same with figure, the activation is on top of the mana curve, but in top deck mode, it is awesome to have in play. I may be championing this card because I desperately would like to hold onto my Pox days, and have played it in Pox forever, but I loved it in Pox, and would like to try it in Burn, but have yet to do it.