Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SIMMERING POT OF FECAL MATTER]

[Mr. Safety]

I'm thinking the +2/0, hast and vigilance land might be good in Zoo, perhaps in Big Zoo.

EDIT: I'm not sure if it'd be better than Kessig Wolf Run in Big Zoo though. And there are only some many utility lands you can cram in a deck.

Top deck Wild Nacatl, swing for 5. Top deck Qasali Pridemage, swing for 5. Top deck Goyf, swing for 6-8. Nice. I like it as a 1-of in a zoo deck that packs a healthy amount of Sylvan Library's (2-3.)

[Infinitium]

..Shouldn't you be more concerned about pumping Nacatl and be able to cast Pridemage in the first 2 turns rather than being tricky on turn 5?

Sure the opportunity cost of playing a colorless land isn't all that great, but neither are the gains of either card in the cycle spoiled this far. There are only so many colorless lands fitting in a manabase, and neither of those would be consistently better than Waste/Factory/Ruins/Tower imo. Maybe the second can get a spot in GWr Maverick for KotR shenanigans but that's the only non-corner case use I can see really.

[Mr. Safety]

It's not about being tricky...it's about getting decent mileage out of late-game top decks that would normally be 'meh'.

[hi-val]

You have to consider, that you will weaken your Landbase with this card. So you have to ask yourself the following question: Is it worth it? Can another utility land provide you with more bang for your bucks? And there are many utility lands, that are strong in Legacy.

I'll also note that it's a legitimate play to run lands in spell slots. If you normally run 23 land in a bigger Zoo deck, you can run 25 and support these.

[DrJones]

Back when blue was the only winning color in legacy and there wasn't any way to stop blue tempo decks to free timewalking you (I said back then but it's still true), I had one idea to balance Legacy. I thought it was good to have blue tempo ravage combo decks and some other decks in the meta, as long as at least one archtype in the meta was impervious to counterspells, forcing those decks to pack other forms of disruption instead of just a bunch of free counters.

I contacted MtgAaron on twitter and passed him a card idea via the WotC wiki. Any card on the WotC wiki automatically belongs to WotC, so they can actually see if the idea has merit and can be used by them. That was the card I suggested:


***CLARIFICATION: CARD I ORIGINALLY SUGGESTED. NOT ACTUALLY PRINTED ON AVACYN RESTORED***
Artifact-deck enabler
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool. If that mana is spent on an artifact spell, that spell can't be countered by spells or abilities.
Sacrifice THIS: Add 1 to your mana pool.
***CLARIFICATION: CARD I ORIGINALLY SUGGESTED. NOT ACTUALLY PRINTED ON AVACYN RESTORED***

The idea was giving aggro chalice/trinisphere decks a tool against blue tempo that couldn't be abused by belcher, the only fast combo deck that relies on casting an artifact to win. I chose artifacts because white, green and red had plenty of tools to deal with artifacts, so making blue weak against artifacts decks felt fair. It couldn't enter the battlefield tapped, and I added the sacrifice clause so that it could replace one of the 2-mana lands as aggro chalice/trinisphere decks couldn't add yet another colorless land to their build.

Inalienable Key aspects: Being a LAND. Being a MANA ABILITY. That means it can't be countered, it can't be stifled, and it can't protect 0 mana artifacts.

I felt pushed to come here and write this long explanation after I've found the following rumored card from Avacyn's Restored on the rumor mill:

***THIS IS THE ONE THAT YOU'LL FIND IN BOOSTERS***
Awesome Land
Land
As CARDNAME enters the battlefield, choose a creature type.
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Spent this mana only to play a creature of the chosen type. That creature cannot be countered.

This card basically does all the things I asked WotC to do, and it's actually more fair than the one I suggested. I'm confident now that thanks to this card legacy will stop being the bluefest it has been since forever. I'm a happy man now!

[joemauer]

You are finally getting your wish DrJones, a way to circumvent Force of Will!

It would be funny if rumored land just makes Snapcaster Mage more powerful.

Edit: Assuming the rumored land is for real, this set may have the biggest impact on Legacy in most rececnt years.

[Vacrix]

Are you kidding? I'd find a way to play that in Belcher dude. Think about post-board. You could board those in. As long as you can land Belcher, blue usually loses unless they board in Pithing Needle. Misfires are irrelevant if you can Belch again. Trust me, thats my post-board plan in PSI and it works like a fucking charm. I board IN 2 lands.

[Zinch]

Are you kidding? I'd find a way to play that in Belcher dude. Think about post-board. You could board those in. As long as you can land Belcher, blue usually loses unless they board in Pithing Needle. Misfires are irrelevant if you can Belch again. Trust me, thats my post-board plan in PSI and it works like a fucking charm. I board IN 2 lands.

I think you missunderstood DrJones... the rumored land is the second one

I saw the land in mtgsalvation and thought in my (long forgotten in the shelf) goblin deck... may this land be enough to make it playable again?

[Humphrey]

Goblins is playable since MM ban.

[JDK]

I saw the land in mtgsalvation and thought in my (long forgotten in the shelf) goblin deck... may this land be enough to make it playable again?

Thought exactly the same.

[(nameless one)]

Are you kidding me? I'm running that land on MUD. Can't counter my Wurmcoil bitches! Take that blue-base tempo!

[morgan_coke]

Pretty positive that's not a real land.

[markbris]

Pretty positive that's not a real land.

It can't be the way he has it written. They are figuring its either completely fake or he's leaving something out like legendary, CIPT, no colorless mana, somethin lke that. Prolly CIPT if anything i bet.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Delver and Snapcaster are both Humans.

[Freggle]

Avacyn Restored is the most exciting set for Magic the Gathering since Future Sight, and possibly ever.

If the above land is real this set is re-donk.

[majikal]

I have no reason to believe the land is fake. The guy that posted it was cracking packs and posting pictures of some of the cards.

[Vacrix]

I think you missunderstood DrJones... the rumored land is the second one

I saw the land in mtgsalvation and thought in my (long forgotten in the shelf) goblin deck... may this land be enough to make it playable again?

No I certainly didn't misunderstand him. I don't take issue with it being real or not, that wasn't the point. He said it would be a land that Belcher cannot abuse.. because its a land.. so only MUD and such would play it. But Belcher could easily abuse it post-board because if they land Belcher they win eventually. The deck has over 40 mana so if you land it, your opponent needs to put a really good clock on you if they want to live. Its an uncounterable protection spell for Belcher. Every Belcher deck would play 4 in the board.

EDIT:
This was also spoiled.. but the source is hard to confirm because the card is faded and in a different language.. but:
1R
Instant
Discard your hand, then draw (2 or 3, can't remember) cards.
Common

If its draw 3, I can see Burn running that to refill their hand.

[Kich867]

No I certainly didn't misunderstand him. I don't take issue with it being real or not, that wasn't the point. He said it would be a land that Belcher cannot abuse.. because its a land.. so only MUD and such would play it. But Belcher could easily abuse it post-board because if they land Belcher they win eventually. The deck has over 40 mana so if you land it, your opponent needs to put a really good clock on you if they want to live. Its an uncounterable protection spell for Belcher. Every Belcher deck would play 4 in the board.

EDIT:
This was also spoiled.. but the source is hard to confirm because the card is faded and in a different language.. but:
1R
Instant
Discard your hand, then draw (2 or 3, can't remember) cards.
Common

If its draw 3, I can see Burn running that to refill their hand.

Wow ... O_O;; If this is true, this is going to be a pretty sick card for burn. For combo even, I mean, why not right? Play all your stuff, put this on the stack, crack an LED or two in response, keep digging..

[Greenpoe]

Pretty positive that's not a real land.

It's not even that good. Vial already makes creatures un-counterable, plus it accelerates.

[Oiolosse]

No way that would be instant. Too powerful. It would need to be sorcery or at least 2R.

Entreat the Angles looks awesome in UW Control.