Avacyn Restored Card Discussion [SIMMERING POT OF FECAL MATTER]

[allek]

Misthollow Griffin = inf mana with Food Chain, right?

Great design for a mythic card, just wish they would stop with the CGI-artwork.

[majikal]

Misthollow Griffin = inf mana with Food Chain, right?

Well that didn't take long.

[Gheizen64]

This. "Pitch it to Force, spend a million mana to get a 3/3 that dies to my opponent's 3/2 that he flipped on turn two" does not seem like the best thing ever.

I mean, on turn four in blue, you can tap out for Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Why in God's name would you ever want to tap out for a 3/3 flying? Or wait until you can cast a 3/3 flying with mana up? That seems terrible in every way. The marginal extra value you get from Force won't matter when you're still required to pay retail to actually get it.

I agree, seems more cute than actually good, and sadly JTMS trump everything in blue at 2UU. However, it's really really cute. Force with no card disadvantage? Misdirection for 0? Relic of progenitus for infinite recursion?? Relic is already borderline maindeckable anyway.

[Kich867]

Who said anything about maindecking it? It seems like it breaks Stoneblade mirrors wide open and probably has some applications against a few other grindy decks.

MUC might want it. It's just a good card. It's well-designed.

^ This.

This is why I don't understand a lot of complaints about magic these days. People cry about powercreep but, shit, if the card isn't insanely broken it's the worst fucking thing on Earth. You do it to yourselves. Do I need to recap on the dozens people who legit said that R for 4 damage was mediocre at best? Or that a 1 mana 4/3 was just barely legacy playable?

Can you imagine if every card was this well designed and not just gross powercreep? Good cards that have subtle synergy with the decks they belong in, that fix and solve problems in an interesting way without being just horribly overpowered.

I would shit bricks if they went back to designing cards like this more often, but they don't, they just cram as much bullshit into each new set as they can because they think it's going to make each successive set feel that much more epic. But what they don't realize is that what made awesome, recognizable cards in the first place was their scarcity in a sea of mediocrity. And not that mediocrity is bad, but there was a point when cards were chosen because they were good, not because they were broken.

[DLifshitz]

Something that actually seems worth tutoring up with Personal Tutor.

Looks like Maverick has a problem, for the next couple of months at least.

On an unrelated note, I'm selling my playset of Korean FNM Brainstorms altered by H. R. Giger and ceremonially sanctified by Cardinal Ratzinger.

[Basaka]

Misthollow Griffin = inf mana with Food Chain, right?

I want to build this now. lmao

8 mana dorks
4 food chains
4 bird
3 Emrakul
4 intuition...

[Tinefol]

I don't like this shit with Food Chain, really. You get an added bonus of free Force of Wills for a combo deck? A permanent, which is hard to hate on? Please, no.

[Kich867]

I don't like this shit with Food Chain, really. You get an added bonus of free Force of Wills for a combo deck? A permanent, which is hard to hate on? Please, no.

If you think it through it's not even remotely scary.

They need to have emrakul in hand, food chain out, and this card. The deck has no other reliable means of winning. There have been easier 3 card combos that have been dismissed as unplayable.

[Basaka]

Well, blue has an instant Demonic tutor for 2U...

[Vacrix]

Noxious Revival is looking better and better as they spoil more Miracles. It looks DOPE with Terminus.

[Tinefol]

If you think it through it's not even remotely scary.

They need to have emrakul in hand, food chain out, and this card. The deck has no other reliable means of winning. There have been easier 3 card combos that have been dismissed as unplayable.

I don't really consider Emrakul a part of combo, since food chain can easily run stuff like Fierce Empath to double on it and a shit load of digging creatures (Mulldrifter, Raven Familiar, Court Houssar, Coiling Oracle, Wall of Blossoms) to find anything it needs. And uhm, why wouldn't you run Show and Tell in such kind of deck, giving you another edge of attack with Emrakul? And Brainstorm to setup on early turns?

And even if you don't find Emrakul, dropping a bunch of flying 2/2s and 3/3s on table as early as on turn 2 isn't that bad, right?

There's also an Imperial Recruiter route, which can let you combo off of a single Recruiter. Or even something as shitty as Maga, Traitor to Mortals and god knows how many other possible kills.

[lordofthepit]

I imagine that a U/G Food Chain combo deck would run Coiling Oracle and Green Sun's Zenith, with probably a Fierce Empath to quickly assemble the combo.

[xfxf]

Well, blue has an instant Demonic tutor for 2U...

Can you guys include textual descriptions as well. Sometimes the images don't load.

[Vacrix]

No blue does not have a Instant Demonic tutor for 2U do you have any idea how good that would be...

He's referring to Long-Term Plans in combination with Miracle, which is still terrible. Lim-Dul's Vault is way better.

[bruizar]

Just bought out 4 foil food chains. Mercadian Masques+Rare+foil=ingredients for becoming expensive. was already a high potential card, and this exile bird at the very least will bring more attention to the card. I like it.

[Willoe]

I don't really consider Emrakul a part of combo, since food chain can easily run stuff like Fierce Empath to double on it and a shit load of digging creatures (Mulldrifter, Raven Familiar, Court Houssar). And uhm, why wouldn't you run Show and Tell in such kind of deck, giving you another edge of attack with Emrakul? And Brainstorm to setup on early turns?

Well, that is a point, but the Sphinx does not necessarily break the deck in half. Being able to create infinite mana is nothing when you don't have anything to spend that mana on. While I agree it is indeed nice to be able to ramp up to Emrakul or any other large creature by just using this, ramping up in Food Chain decks is not that hard anyway. The -real- advantage with using the Sphinx is that it is replayable when pitched to FoW, thus rendering it immune to discard afterwards since it is now exiled. Having FoW backup and this in hand when playing Food Chain seems like a strong play, but the problem with Food Chain has at some point always been that you have to pass a turn unless you already have a creature on the battlefield which in most cases you haven't because most opponents can figure out to kill your pre-Food Chain creatures since removal won't help them once Food Chain is on the battlefield.

Talking about Food Chain, I'd prefer to squeeze 1-2 Griselbrand into the deck rather than this unless of course it is possible to do both. Being able to draw 7-14 cards seems much more appealing than creating infinite mana, actually. Myojin of Seeing Winds was insane already, but that was much more expensive (although blue mana is easier to ramp up) and drew less cards.

EDIT: Well, it wasn't insane, guess it was mediocre :D. Griselbrand is a much stronger draw engine and a win condition (although shaky) itself.

[mrjumbo03]

No blue does not have a Instant Demonic tutor for 2U do you have any idea how good that would be...

He's referring to Long-Term Plans in combination with Miracle, which is still terrible. Lim-Dul's Vault is way better.

I think based on what he said prior to that, he meant Intuition.

[lavafrogg]

Has anyone considered Wind of Death as playable? Seems like it would be playable but I'm not sure if it is better than smother.

[bruizar]

With that UG Flash land, we could generate infinite mana during opponents turn. Cute, but most likely a useless interaction requiring way too much mana.

Has anyone considered Wind of Death as playable? Seems like it would be playable but I'm not sure if it is better than smother.

I think it's too mana intensive. Black has too many better alternatives. Darkblast, Ghastly Demise, Dismember, Frailty, Go for the Throat, Diabolic Edict, Tragic Slip, Smother, etc.

[Basaka]

I think based on what he said prior to that, he meant Intuition.

Yes, I mean intuition. Going to go pick up a few more this weekend methinks.