[Deck] Goblins

[orcanmail]

I use relics from SB for Goyfs and Goose, and tarfire main takes out delvers. Piledrivers and Krenko can then bash through

[Cleston]

Krenko is supposed to be good at this matchup, isn't it?

Creating blockers, drawing removal from your real beaters, and demanding something like a dismember if chieftain in play.

I run 2 krenkos and 3 chieftains nowadays, and this has been my main focus when testing against my RUG friend. he cannot deal with a swarm.

the problem is always getting to this swarm, for sure. EDIT: thus, in order to achieve a great deal of creatures in play, I usually only remove goblins for other goblin creatures that might lie on the sideboard, and never turn in cards like leyline of the void, to increase my chances on hitting good ringleaders and keep the pressure coming. I also found that upping a vial all the way to 4 counters helps if they are trying to jace krenko out of the board all the time (I say that because most people stop their vials @3)

[Ace/Homebrew]

I actually got to practice against RUG Delver last night. My opponent was not playing with Stifle (not sure if that is typical). My take-away was that the games where Krenko stuck or I had an active Vial were the games I'd win because Krenko overwhelms and because Vial lets you keep up on the board without fear of counter magic or removal/blocks on Lackey/WIn. Keeping 1 or 2 land hands in this matchup is risky at best, suicide at worst.
After turn 2 keep Wastelands for mana unless they are obviously mana/color screwed. They are far too efficient with mana (I have dropped Port from my list).

I learned that RUG Delver has a lot of dead cards against us. My opponent boarded in Cursed Totem and Scavenging Ooze just cause the cards he removed were worse in the match. Games 2 and 3 they remove almost all their counterspells except for Daze.
Towards the end of my testing my strategy was to go card for card while setting up Vials and mana to overwhelm all at once. Play Tarfire for Delver, trade Lackey with Goose... This forces removal on less desirable targets and lessens the chance of getting 2-for-1ed with a Forked Bolt. Then vial in what you can and play the rest to flood the board and swing!
3 Relic of Progenitus were my tech against this deck. They were good I guess, I did not see them very often.


TL;DR - Play Chalice of the Void at 1 =)

[Potdindy]

Hey all,

So I've been reading these posts from beginning to the end and still don't know why..thats a lot of posts. I have been playing Goblins for a bit over a year, meaning throwing Raging Goblins and other crap at my friends. Reading this forum has helped so much so thanks for all the comments, even the ones which seem pointless or trollish.

I have been working on my Legacy Gobbo deck all this summer and just have some questions about a few cards. Now I have never played at any tourney's so my thinking may sound retarded...which it probably is regardless.

Bloodmark mentor: I haven't seen people talk about this guy. I know he doesn't buff others or add card advantage but couldn't a one-of in SB or MD be good when it comes to bigger creatures. I have a friend who playes a much better Merfolk deck and occassionally he would get that stupid hand that gets a bunch of 4/4s and stuff facing my 1/1s. Talking about RUG Delver means Goyfs so couldn't Mentor be good at blocking with a bunch of guys and stuff?

Second, is Tarfire a good maindeck choice? It seems underwhelming at only 2 damage though most dudes are 2 or less toughness. Idk.

And lastly Goblin Wardriver. Could another 1 of be ok or is removal and the RR cost put him over. He is kind of a inverse Piledriver albeit without proBlue.

Sorry to interrupt the flow of convo, but I've been reading this for so long and wanted to ask some stuff. On a side not I threw together a Merfolk deck cause of the new M13 guy and to test against Gobs and wow, our Gobs are so much better than I thought. With Merfolk coming back hopefully and being darn scared of Gobs, Goblins could be a prevalent deck again.

[GoboLord]

I actually got to practice against RUG Delver last night. My opponent was not playing with Stifle (not sure if that is typical). My take-away was that the games where Krenko stuck or I had an active Vial were the games I'd win because Krenko overwhelms and because Vial lets you keep up on the board without fear of counter magic or removal/blocks on Lackey/WIn. Keeping 1 or 2 land hands in this matchup is risky at best, suicide at worst.
After turn 2 keep Wastelands for mana unless they are obviously mana/color screwed. They are far too efficient with mana (I have dropped Port from my list).

I learned that RUG Delver has a lot of dead cards against us. My opponent boarded in Cursed Totem

ACE is right here. My estimated percentages would be:
We lose 90% of the Games without Vial and we Win 80% of the Games when we DO have a Vial. They dont want to See us cheating on mana. they dont want to See us resolving Blockers and they dont want to See us Gaining cardadvantage. Our Keycards for this MU are Vial, MWM, Matron, Ringleader and Krenko. Their Delvers Must be dealt with immediately cause they are the only creatures wie cant Block. Dont give them Time to Flip them and/or to find Protection spelling for them. RUG thresh Feels Most comfortable when ist can just Drive a lone delver to the Win - don't allow them to do so.

[Nelis]

I learned that RUG Delver has a lot of dead cards against us. My opponent boarded in Cursed Totem

They should board in Torpor Orb. I found out it's good against goblins. And in theory (haven't tested it) against a shitload of other decks/cards:

Vendillion clique (blade control, Bant, UR Delver)
Stoneforge mystic (blade control, Maverick)
Snapcaster Mage (blade control, Miracle Control, Canadian *****, Bant, UR Delver)
Eternal Witness (Maverick, Elves, Nic-Fit, The Rock)
Goblin matron (Goblins)
goblin ringleader (Goblins)
Tin Street Hooligan (Goblins)
Tuktuk Scrapper (Goblins)
Stingscourger (Goblins)
Mogg War Marshal (Goblins)
Siege-gang commander(Goblins)
Sundering Titan (MUD)
Kitchen Finks (Nic-fit)
Deranged Hermit (Nic-fit)
Grave titan (Nic-fit)
Wall of Blossoms (Nic-fit)
Viridian Shaman (Nic-fit, elves)
Regal Force (Elves)
Elvish Visionary (Elves)
.

[Ace/Homebrew]

@P-Dindy - Welcome to the conversation!

As long as you have a set of Wastelands you should really check to see if your area has a legacy scene. Organized events are a good time and participating in them makes you a better player. It's amazing how much you learn just from going to one!

Tarfire - When all the 2 drops in legacy cost this was considered a bad card. Due to recent lapses in judgment by Wizards, the field now has plenty of creatures which Tarfire CAN kill. It is no longer *bad* but it is a judgment/meta call as to whether is should be played over Lightning Bolt or other removal.

Goblin Wardriver - His downfall in legacy is that he is not as good as Goblin Piledriver, Warren Instigator, or Mogg War Marshal. If he has a place in constructed play... I feel like it is in modern.

Bloodmark Mentor - Could be good. My concerns here are relying on it to kill 1 goyf with 3 guys only to have them bolt the Mentor and we get 3/4-for-1ed. Test it and let us know =)

[Potdindy]

Just some thoughts on Delver. I playtested a buttload of games against it and found a number of things. First, wasting their lands does not seem to be a good answer. Although they run maybe 6-8 colored lands, their curve is so darn low that they can survive on very few and still pump out stupid guys. If the mana denial route was the way to go, could Ghost Quarter be a pseudo Strip Mine? WTC How do I auto card the names?

Second, when I got blown out the worst was when I ran into Dazes and Spell Snare. Because I run only 3 fetches for a black splash, Stifle was not a problem. Daze can be played around, but when it comes to hard counters, what about the old REB and Pyroblast. If they want to trade FOWs for out REBs, I will take that any day...it will do our CA engine for us. The moment they empty their hand, we win I think because Gobs can just splatter guys onto the field.

The blue hate cards are also good against Delver which is obviously what scares me most. Goyfs and Mongeese...Mongooses...don't really scare me because we have lots of chumps.

Lastly, I really only splash black for Perish. This seems to spell doom when the opponant has a bunch of Shroud Mongeese out or giant goyfs.

I guess the question is how much emphasis should be put on this MU. But it seems that it can be done. Now Idk how that sounds so shoot it down if there's a better way to do it.

[feline]

I have noticed that as well, unless I'm actually locking them out of a color, or even locking them out of any land at all, the wasteland's against a deck that can cast everything for 1 or less (with the exception of only tarmogoyf) is less impressive. The only other time it might help is against an opposing wasteland, forcing them to use theirs or lose it so you are free to drop your Cavern of souls however if they're smart enough to be playing RUG properly, they are probably smart enough to hold back the wastelands until you drop your cavern of souls

[Potdindy]

In this MU Caverns is really as much a hate card as anything we might have boarded. It takes out probably half of their cards...maybe a bit less, but still. Is it possible to use a wasteland to protect the Caverns?

We lose 90% of the Games without Vial and we Win 80% of the Games when we DO have a Vial.

I am starting to wonder if it is worthwhile to throw some Goblin fodder into counter spells so that a Vial can resolve later...not sure if this is a good idea but its a thought.

[raindrainxi]

I agree with everyone, the MVPs in this MU are Vials, Krenko and most especially Caverns. T1 Cavern, Lackey, go almost always means a dead delver or mongoose.

I don't think Ghost Quarter would be of any huge help, due to the aforementioned Stifle. Besides, we need the mana more badly than they do. In this matchup it is better if we assume the aggro role than control.

Note: Yay! for DTB!

[woodjt5]

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh DTB. Let's keep winning, fellas.

[Annatar]

I've started playing a mono red list and I'm learning to love it. The only thing that really bothers me is the lack of decent artifact hate that can be tutored for. Then again, my current meta doesn't really warrant playing (no Stoneblade or Affinity) it so I don't really mind.

Against RUG I tried playing Magus of the Moon as a means of mana denial but that didn't work out so well, mostly because they could still bolt him or, in my case, just Pyroclasm him away. Relic of Progenitus should serve just fine, along with additional Stingscourgers to deal with the Goyfs.

The Ghost Quarter thing I mentioned earlier didn't help much yet. The one instance in which it was useful was against High Tide when I targeted my own Wasteland to get a red source for Pyroblast. I will probably cut them down to two while still keeping a high land count (23).

[Arew]

Welcome back to DTB Goblins! You've been missed. I always thought the mono-red lists were much more fun than splash lists myself, but I've always been a huge fan of Blood Moon.

[Annatar]

Well, Blood Moon does have the perk of not being able to be burned off the board. I suppose that's reason enough to try it against RUG Delver.

[Cleston]

This weekend I had a very though playtest session against Maverick.

We were using no sideboard at all, just playing main decks for a while, to better understand the matchu-up. I was overwhelmed constantly, but could win some games here and there. I mulliganed very aggressively, and always looked for a way to keep pressure going, but most of the time he could stabilize.

Overall, I felt it was a bad match-up before boards. After boards though, I would be bringing in Perish. Any other thoughts on this?

[Mindlash]

This weekend I had a very though playtest session against Maverick.

We were using no sideboard at all, just playing main decks for a while, to better understand the matchu-up. I was overwhelmed constantly, but could win some games here and there. I mulliganed very aggressively, and always looked for a way to keep pressure going, but most of the time he could stabilize.

Overall, I felt it was a bad match-up before boards. After boards though, I would be bringing in Perish. Any other thoughts on this?

I am playing the Mono Red List from Pee Dee right now and have experienced the opposite. Preboard it was slightly favorable for me. Postboard it was very easy.

I also tried not to mulligan to often. On the play land, lackey, removal was very helpful. Hands with multiply vials and late game goblins worked as well.

The Maverick Deck was without Stoneforge and with 2 Jitte Maindeck if i remember it right. Skirk Prospector helped me a lot to keep Jitte Count at zero. Although some Games looked bad for me and were grindy as hell...as soon as Ringleaders and Krenko hit the table it began to spiral down for Maverick.

I have 8 Removals Maindeck. 2 of them are Pyrokinesis. After Boarding I had 4 of them + 1 Tuktuk, taking out 2 Piledrivers and ehm...cant remember the third card by now.

An early Pyrokinesis can wreck Maverick a lot. Some Games went like this: Maverick plays land, noble. Goblin plays land, lackey. Maverick land, thalia, mother. Goblin Pyrokinesis and attack. Add a wasteland and they simply cannot recover from this.

I told him not to overextend against Pyrokinesis...which did not work well for him either.

But it would be helpful to see your Decklist and with what cards you struggle in this Matchup.

I used a Rbg Gobo Deck about a year ago and I had many problems with maverick. Postboard it was ok due to perish. But Pyrokinesis tends to be a lot stronger in this matchup. Perish was in my Board because of Zoo.Virtue's Ruin may be a better choice vs Maverick.

In Addition you see more G/W Maverick here now. In the past another Problem has been Punishing Fire which I now see rarely in Germany.

Edit:

Goblin has both a strong early and a strong late game. If you can get into the late game with an even or better board position you can usally win from here.

Stinger and MWMs through Vials should help you to survive. Strong removal is also key. Get rid of Mothers before they go active. An early Jitte can be a pain. But nowadays you see less Stoneforge Mystics in the newer Maverick Decks. So its generally two out of sixty cards they need to find. You can block Jitte and sac your blocker with Prospector. Burn their equipped Creatures. The games I lost were due to an early Jitte I couldn't handle.

Cheating Creatures like Piledriver/Chieftain into play during their end step can also force them to make wrong decisions about attacking or keeping blockers although I am not a big fan of piledriver in this matchup in generel. There were about 3 games out of about 20 where he was useful to me and as I said I often board him out in this matchup.

Greetings
Chris

[Cleston]

I am playing the Mono Red List from Pee Dee right now and have experienced the opposite. Preboard it was slightly favorable for me. Postboard it was very easy.

I also tried not to mulligan to often. On the play land, lackey, removal was very helpful. Hands with multiply vials and late game goblins worked as well.

here is the first thing I was doing different... I was frequently going to 5 cards to try to keep a strong hand

The Maverick Deck was without Stoneforge and with 2 Jitte Maindeck if i remember it right. Skirk Prospector helped me a lot to keep Jitte Count at zero. Although some Games looked bad for me and were grindy as hell...as soon as Ringleaders and Krenko hit the table it began to spiral down for Maverick.

my opponent was playing 3 stoneforges main deck, bringing batterskull first choice, fire and ice second, then jitte. props for him mayhaps? LOL

I have 8 Removals Maindeck. 2 of them are Pyrokinesis. After Boarding I had 4 of them + 1 Tuktuk, taking out 2 Piledrivers and ehm...cant remember the third card by now.

An early Pyrokinesis can wreck Maverick a lot. Some Games went like this: Maverick plays land, noble. Goblin plays land, lackey. Maverick land, thalia, mother. Goblin Pyrokinesis and attack. Add a wasteland and they simply cannot recover from this.

I told him not to overextend against Pyrokinesis...which did not work well for him either.

and that's the takeaway point for me: I have zero no-goblin removal in my deck. no pyrokinesis, no fireblast, no bolt, nothing. I'm currently running only gempalms and tarfires and stingscourgers. while they're good, they won't help me clear the board of 1/1s like pyro will. I tried a sharpshooter at the later matches and he helped a lot agasint mother, dryad arbor, noble, etc. maybe I'll have to find room for pyrokinesis MD, though I wouldn't know what to take, and my preference would be for a goblin card, for matron and ringleader reasons. will think about it, tks!

But it would be helpful to see your Decklist and with what cards you struggle in this Matchup.

I used a Rbg Gobo Deck about a year ago and I had many problems with maverick. Postboard it was ok due to perish. But Pyrokinesis tends to be a lot stronger in this matchup. Perish was in my Board because of Zoo.Virtue's Ruin may be a better choice vs Maverick.

In Addition you see more G/W Maverick here now. In the past another Problem has been Punishing Fire which I now see rarely in Germany.

Greetings
Chris

my list during this playtest session

4 cavern of souls
4 wastelands
14 mountain

4 aether vial

4 goblin lackey
1 skirk prospector
3 mogg war marshall
2 stingscourger
1 goblin piledriver
4 gempalm incinerator
4 goblin matron
4 goblin warchief
2 goblin chieftain
4 goblin ringleader
2 krenko, mob boss
2 siege-gang commander
1 tarfire

currently struggling to find a good sideboard, not sure if mono red or splash for black and green.

[Mindlash]

here is the first thing I was doing different... I was frequently going to 5 cards to try to keep a strong hand



my opponent was playing 3 stoneforges main deck, bringing batterskull first choice, fire and ice second, then jitte. props for him mayhaps? LOL



and that's the takeaway point for me: I have zero no-goblin removal in my deck. no pyrokinesis, no fireblast, no bolt, nothing. I'm currently running only gempalms and tarfires and stingscourgers. while they're good, they won't help me clear the board of 1/1s like pyro will. I tried a sharpshooter at the later matches and he helped a lot agasint mother, dryad arbor, noble, etc. maybe I'll have to find room for pyrokinesis MD, though I wouldn't know what to take, and my preference would be for a goblin card, for matron and ringleader reasons. will think about it, tks!



my list during this playtest session

4 cavern of souls
4 wastelands
14 mountain

4 aether vial

4 goblin lackey
1 skirk prospector
3 mogg war marshall
2 stingscourger
1 goblin piledriver
4 gempalm incinerator
4 goblin matron
4 goblin warchief
2 goblin chieftain
4 goblin ringleader
2 krenko, mob boss
2 siege-gang commander
1 tarfire

currently struggling to find a good sideboard, not sure if mono red or splash for black and green.

My Deck looks basically the same:
-1 siege-gang
-1 gempalm
-1 mountain
+1 piledriver
+2 Pyrokinesis

Sideboard is:
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Sharpshooter
1 TukTuk

I mulled 1 hand without lands and the hand afterwards with lands only and lost the game. I also keeped 2 "wrong" hands...beeing to slow without either lacky/vial or removal. But most handy are totally playable and your need the cards especially when pitching into Pyrokinesis.

Against Batterskull you may board in Vortex though I am not sure, if it is that good against Maverick. On the other hand...it turns Batterskull into a mere 4/4 Vigilance which is totally ok.

I used 2 Tuktuk Main in an earlier List. But I do not have the room anymore :-/

Batterskull and the Sword are not easy to handle. I think your only option is removal or artifact hate MD. But if I remember correctly, Gobo-Lord once wrote something about more removal > MD artifact hate against artifacts.

You should give Pyrokinesis a try. Using 4 after Boarding improves this matchup so much. I think I will not leave my house anytime soon with less then 2 :-)

PS: My Friend was looking at Magiccards.info for both Swords with Prot: Red. Maybe I will not be so lucky next time. But nothing can be worse then the times when boarding against most of my friends was like 4 cards out 4 plagues in :D

[boneclub24]

Hi! Going into a tournament fairly soon. Goblins is always my old reliable, but it's gonna be an unknown meta. I'm presuming it will consist of mostly the same old stuff, but you never know with this format!

Anyway, here is the list I plan on running:

2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Mogg War Marshal
2 Stingscourger
4 Goblin Piledriver
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

4 AEther Vial

4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
5 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Taiga

Sideboard:
4 Graveyard hate (not sure what yet)
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Goblin King
2 Magus of the Moon/Blood Moon (Magus for Vial? I've never used this tech before, but it seems good)
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pyrokinesis