[Deck] The Rock

[Esper3k]

Sure Thrun is better in the Jund matchup, but I have Linvala in there for the BUG match as well as the Elves and other creature matchups. Shutting off Deathrites is huge, flying is also good.

-Matt

That's fair. I'm just surprised you didn't have anything better to bring in. I think I'd want the Maelstrom Pulse instead.

[sdematt]

I was thinking about bringing Deeds in, but I wasn't sure. Still testing, but not much time to do so. I'm currently at:

2 Pernicious Deed
2 Linvala
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Pithing Needle
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Thoughtseize
1 Life from the Loam (but this might swing back to Elspeth, who knows)

-Matt

[damionblackgear]

Safety, I've made a couple changes. I still am running the Sculler and stronghold but the 2 spots I mentioned (loam and Ooze) I've turned into Maze and Knight. Neither has really come into play (or at least I can't tell with knight) but I feel I've got more to do with that than with the Ooze and Loam. I'm still using the Chokes in the sideboard spots (2).

I'm still wondering if the Sculler is better or not. I like having the clock but I have run into the pyroclasm situation. Lucky for me I had charm to regen my team.

I've also not had an issue with the online meta since the daily I mentioned in that previous post. That being said, All I've played against was non-burn decks. Granted I've played Belcher twice but they've either fizzled or I've had Pulse/Charm to deal with tokens. Better luck than good.

On the Youtubes... New computer doesn't like to record Modo (Camtatsia's a PoS on it) and I don't feel like troubleshooting so instead, I'm looking at alternatives (Fraps is also weird on it...). My old computer is still around, even though it's almost 10 years old, but I've physically damaged it somehow (would need to weld the monitor frame to fix... that ain't happening). I'll try to have something by Sunday.

[KobeBryan]

i had a very hard time against UW stoneblade.

counters counters counters, supreme verdict, plow, snapcaster plow.

I don't run thrun and i do run 1 elspeth. but elspeth never sees the light of day.

[.Ix]

Came 2nd last night.

Bug: 1-1-1
Helm Combo Deck: 2-0
Esperblade: 2-1
MonoB Pox: 1-1-1

Came second and won my own Misty Rainforest!

-Matt

Congrats on the finish, Matt! How did you end up with the 1-1-1s? I tend to get a lot of those myself, mostly by being a ahead but unable to close in time.

[sdematt]

Yeah, the BUG match. Game 1 went long where I get him to 2, but then he kills my guys and gets Jace online. Jace into Sylvan, Sylvan into Darkblast my Dryad Arbor, and I brick for 6 turns on lands and die. Then we go to Game 2 and he gets out 2 DRS to my one, but I get Ooze online but not enough Green, so I have to Pithing Needle the DRS's. I win, but time is called when we shuffled for game 3.

Time was called in Game 3 of MonoBlack Pox. I MAY have won that game, but Pox is NOT fun to play against at all. Closing the game in time is always the hard part for sure. The GSZ's really help since instead of drawing another, say, Goyf which might be small, you can go get a Knight or what have you.

Are you running against UW Stoneblade or Esperblade? Do they have Terminuses or just Verdict? Either way, more Gaddock Teeg, Needle, and if you needed to, Thrun :)

-Matt

[Mr. Safety]

Safety, I've made a couple changes. I still am running the Sculler and stronghold but the 2 spots I mentioned (loam and Ooze) I've turned into Maze and Knight. Neither has really come into play (or at least I can't tell with knight) but I feel I've got more to do with that than with the Ooze and Loam. I'm still using the Chokes in the sideboard spots (2).

I'm still wondering if the Sculler is better or not. I like having the clock but I have run into the pyroclasm situation. Lucky for me I had charm to regen my team.

I've also not had an issue with the online meta since the daily I mentioned in that previous post. That being said, All I've played against was non-burn decks. Granted I've played Belcher twice but they've either fizzled or I've had Pulse/Charm to deal with tokens. Better luck than good.

On the Youtubes... New computer doesn't like to record Modo (Camtatsia's a PoS on it) and I don't feel like troubleshooting so instead, I'm looking at alternatives (Fraps is also weird on it...). My old computer is still around, even though it's almost 10 years old, but I've physically damaged it somehow (would need to weld the monitor frame to fix... that ain't happening). I'll try to have something by Sunday.

'I'd rather be lucky than good.' >>> one of my favorite phrases to use, lol.

So you're using Golgari Charm? I've been debating that for a while...mostly because I don't use Lingering Souls and everyone else IS. It dodges my dudes, hoses others. For me, the tournament I played in, I didn't face burn at all. The removal I faced was in the form of Innocent Blood (the Gate) and bounce (Aether Vial in Bomberman.) Sculler lived through those because I had more dangerous threats on the board or a Dryad Arbor to sac in the Innocent Blood games. If you're the beatdown, Sculler lives a lot longer because they have to deal with bigger threats (Goyf, Knight, Liliana) instead of Sculler. I think Sculler is good tech, but I won't be using 4 anymore in the maindeck. I'll likely cut to 2-3, or even go to Hymns maindeck if folks decide to bring burn decks. It's a crap-shoot for me...I don't know the local scene very well yet, only have one event under my belt.

[.Ix]

The removal I faced was in the form of Innocent Blood (the Gate) and bounce (Aether Vial in Bomberman.) Sculler lived through those because I had more dangerous threats on the board or a Dryad Arbor to sac in the Innocent Blood games. If you're the beatdown, Sculler lives a lot longer because they have to deal with bigger threats (Goyf, Knight, Liliana) instead of Sculler. I think Sculler is good tech, but I won't be using 4 anymore in the maindeck. I'll likely cut to 2-3, or even go to Hymns maindeck if folks decide to bring burn decks. It's a crap-shoot for me...I don't know the local scene very well yet, only have one event under my belt.

Tidehollow is quite good. Even if he eats removal it's still a 1-for-1 that didn't kill your best creature. Tried it myself a few times, and I occasionally play it over Inquisition when I want more bodies. I'm intrigued -- I didn't know Bomberman was a deck in Legacy.

Matt:

I drew against esperblade just recently. Lost game 1 to a topdecked Jace, won game 2 by playing Souls, Jitte, Shaman, Library while he tried to stop me using Darkblast, Swords, and removal until he ran out and eventually lost the game. Time was called before the third game started. Some time ago, I faced a traditional junk matchup with a different build. I had Moms and was even grindier. We hit stalemate situations and I couldn't find Souls. Game 1 took around 40 minutes. It was awful.

Right now I'm really looking at options to speed the game up. 3 GSZ 4 knight is good, but I think I need something green that's always fat. Thrun fits the bill, and I'll definitely try him out. Garruk Wildspeaker might actually be decent in the souls deck, too. +1 lets us flashback souls (and cast other awesome 2-drops) and swing for another +8 the next turn. Will try him once I establish a local playgroup. ( I just recently moved to a city with no Magic scene. :[ )

[Barbed Blightning]

Went 5-2 today at NELC, good enough for a Badlands. Lost to double mirran crusader in Deadguy and Craterhoof in elves. Any advice for the elves matchup, aside from the obvious deed/charm/plague plan?

Wins were against burn, ANT (won game one with zero discard and goyf beats), Sneak/show (blew up a sneak attack with golgari charm), TES and Imperial Painter.

Same deck as usual, but I think I will bump GSZ up to 2 and drop vindicate, as much as I hate to. :/ Sideboard needs tweaking for Edison next week

[damionblackgear]

Went 5-2 today at NELC, good enough for a Badlands. Lost to double mirran crusader in Deadguy and Craterhoof in elves. Any advice for the elves matchup, aside from the obvious deed/charm/plague plan?

Wins were against burn, ANT (won game one with zero discard and goyf beats), Sneak/show (blew up a sneak attack with golgari charm), TES and Imperial Painter.

Same deck as usual, but I think I will bump GSZ up to 2 and drop vindicate, as much as I hate to. :/ Sideboard needs tweaking for Edison next week

Aim for things that either produce multiple mana a turn or draw cards. Llanawar don't really matter to much.

[sdematt]

Aim for things that either produce multiple mana a turn or draw cards. Llanawar don't really matter to much.

Yeah, Craterhoof is an asshole. I lost to that guy too. Honestly, just nuke their team. If it's game 1 it's much harder. Out of the board, you slow them down with Linvala.

-Matt

[Leto]

Hey there, greetings from Germany. Piloted Rock first time last weekend after playing DGA for 1,5 years now.
It was a ~50 People-Tournament. Meta is traditionally full of aggro and control-Decks (RUG, Jund, BUG, UWx-Blade, Goblins, Merfolk, Maverick) and Fringe/Rouge-Decks (Enchantress, Lands, MUD...) with nearly no Combo. Played this:

MAINBOARD
3x Scrubland
3x Bayou
1x Savannah
4x Wasteland
4x Marsh Flats
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Plains
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Eternal Witness
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Abrupt Decay
3x Vindicate
3x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Sylvan Library

SIDEBOARD
4x Engineered Plague
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Ulvenwald Tracker
1x Tormod's Crypt
3x Lingering Souls

MUs:
vs. RUG 2:1
vs. MUD 2:0
vs. Goblins 1:1
vs. UWr Blade 2:1
vs. BUG 1:2
vs. BUG 2:0
10:5 and placed 4th.
All players (I played against) were experienced players who make Top 8 regular, so I was pretty pleased with the performance of the deck. It was mainly to the raw power of the deck I did so well, being superior in both, fat guys and giving answers to opposing threats. In a lot of Games, Vindicate was the MVP (Decay and Shaman ignoring, it is widely known how good they are), destroying the last hope of my opponents (resolved Jace/Jitte/Skull...) or just manascrewing them (4 or 5 Games my Opponents were on 0-1 Land as the games ended).

Thoughts only for my non-Combo-Meta:
Is Discard viable at all? Less than 5 cards seems to be bad, but the 5 cards did not impress me either.
Would it be viable to force the Manadenial, playing Sinkhole Main? What to cut?

I will swap Tracker into the Main for Teeg, as he underperformed hard. Also i was not really impressed by my Sideboard. Plagues and Souls did their job, rest was pretty useless.

have a nice weekend everyone =)

[AggroSteve]

i have just seen quite a intresting tech in the jund thread, and thought it might be intresting for us as well

I played this today:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Bloodbraid Elf

3 Liliana of the Veil

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Sylvan Library
3 Cabal Therapy

3 Badlands
3 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills

SIDEBOARD
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Thoughtseize
3 Pyroblast
1 Damnation
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Surgical Extractions
2 Obstinate Baloth

I started 3-0, then cratered hard.

Basically:

R1: Kolt with Jund Mirror (2-0)
R2: David with UW Stoneblade (2-1)
R3: Matt with BUG (2-0)
R4: Steve with Sneak and Show (1-2)
R5: Donny with UW Miracles (1-2)
R6: Graeme with Merfolk (0-2 I think, I was out so I wasn't really playing well or paying attention, which I don't like to do, but I was upset at losing the last 2 rounds. Still shouldn't do it)

Basically, Strangleroot Geists were awesome all day. Matt thoughtseized one on the play game 2, turn 1, in anticipation. They broke through everything, were great, lots of damage, blockers (not necessary, but they could in theory). I never cast Cabal Therapy at all, sadly, but it should be good.

In round 4, game 3, I mulled to 5, kept Deathrite, Confidant, Cabal Therapy, Surgical, Pyroblast or something. Figured, against Sneak and Show, that's a good hand if I draw a land. A 4-card hand would not have gotten there really, and in that case I could at least Therapy SnT, Surgical it, then cast Shaman and re-therapy?

But I didn't draw a land, and he SnT me turn 3 with Force backup. Not much I can do.

R5, game 3, I made a pretty huge mistake. He drew pretty good, he started with T1 top, T2 counterbalance, T3 rest in peace (waiting for helm), and I managed to nuke everything basically, except the top. He had nothing in hand, and I always had two creatures, but he always got Terminus-es, Swords, and the like.

The mistake: I had Bob and Liliana at 3, and just cast Geist. He was at 17, and had no hand. I figured I could sac the geist to make 5 power, and that would eat up a turn. He top-decked his one-of Supreme Verdict (he did have top still). It was a stupid mistake.

I finally got a BBE but his top card was Entreat the Angels. GG. On turn 20 or something.

So I don't know. The deck runs awesome, Geists are awesome, I think I need a better SB vs. Miracles, SnT and Jund. The rest takes care of itself.

Chains of Mephistopheles were nice against Dave in R2G2, but other than that, meh. I am not sure if they should be in there, and definitely not 2. Oh, well.

I am going to try Garruk the Veil-Cursed or however the hell the flip-card Garruk calls himself now. Pretty solid against Miracles and Jund.

As for SnT, eeeeh. Annoying, but maybe with a bit better luck, the deck isn't that scary. Steve had some wild tech, Stifle, Wipe Away and such... so there's that.

I don't know if I even care about Dredge, it's almost non existent, it's nice to have Surgicals, but maybe 2 would be fine.

I would try something like this, maybe?

3 Pyroblast
2 Thoughtseize
2 Damnation
2 Surgical Extractions
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Garruk the Flip-Card
2 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Take something out

This deck is significantly harder to board for. I think the Jittes could be sick. I like Garruk.

Finally, the store, Heroic Dreams in Pickering, east-end of Toronto, great location, great people. Great opponents. I always enjoy the places I play at, this was my first time here, and it was great. Might as well say it.

edit:

Matt, Miracles sucks. It's a very annoying match-up. Top alone is such a pain in the ass. Donny was a good player, so that didn't help, but I am not cherishing that match-up. Maybe Garruk is the solution.

maybe strangleroot geist would be another way to maximize the effect of cabal therapys, plus with haste he gives us a way to fight planeswalker after a boardsweep. He obviously helps against anyone playing liliana, and would also be fetchable with GSZ, and in nonwhite (and noncombo) matchups he is straight up card-advantage
the only problem i got with him is his manacost of GG

so what do u guys think, could he may be worth a try?

[Barbed Blightning]

Yeah, Craterhoof is an asshole. I lost to that guy too. Honestly, just nuke their team. If it's game 1 it's much harder. Out of the board, you slow them down with Linvala.

-Matt

I did, I played her... the he dropped cradle, NO.... and yeah. I'm not so certain about linvala anymore, she seems to hit a turn too late.

I'll probably go back to two teeg in the board for Edison.

@geist: While Jund and us have a similar core, it's a different animal altogether. Jund wants to overpower it's opponent as fast as possible before they can assume any sort of lock or combo. Geist helps since it provides an incremental boost through combat and loves Cabal Therapy.

My philosophy with Junk, however, is that we're supposed to be a deck with answers to everything. That should be reflected in our creatures as well: knight interacts with manabases, bob our hand size, drs graveyards, and goyf their life total (plus I see him as combo hate, as a way to follow up our discard with a faster clock than they need to reassemble their hand).

Geist is just a beatstick. A cool one, but still just a beatstick.

[Mr. Safety]

i have just seen quite a intresting tech in the jund thread, and thought it might be intresting for us as well



maybe strangleroot geist would be another way to maximize the effect of cabal therapys, plus with haste he gives us a way to fight planeswalker after a boardsweep. He obviously helps against anyone playing liliana, and would also be fetchable with GSZ, and in nonwhite (and noncombo) matchups he is straight up card-advantage
the only problem i got with him is his manacost of GG

so what do u guys think, could he may be worth a try?

I've been debating a set of Bloodghast to get my body count up higher, which is the biggest reason I play Sculler. He's tech with Liliana and just doesn't go away, like your favorite batman undar-roos with holes. Strangleroot is interesting...but awkward with the mana (double green.) I play one Eternal Witness, and that is awkward enough.

I think Cabal Therapy makes Strangleroot playable, but I don't play Therapies, I'm too chicken, lol. I'd rather play targeted discard that doesn't make me guess (Seize, IoK) or play 2-for-1's (Sculler, Hymn.) I think, for the most part, playing dumb beats isn't going to get very far, even with mild synergy like Strangleroot. I think Lingering Souls is the right tech with Therapy because of the card advantage, and pure efficiency. If I'm playing a green spell for 2 mana, I want Goyf, Sylvan Library, or GSZ >>> Deathrite. I think all three of those are better than Strangleroot.

[sdematt]

GSZ into Deathrite for us is VERY good.

-Matt

[AggroSteve]

came to the same conclusion, souls tokens are in theory the better therapy fodder, but i hate that card, i tried it a few times and it really did not fit my playstyle. nevertheless i would love to play cabal therapy, and it is really not that hard to guess what your opponent might have in hands and if you have no clue just call whatever would be most disturbing in the given scenario, but i do not want to use lingering souls as a flashback enabler, and surely i would not want to sacrifice a knight or any other creature in our deck (well maybe dryad arbor, but thats it)
strangleroot geist has allmost the same synergy with therapy as soul-token would have, but the manacost is really awkward

has anyone else a suggestion what could be used as a flashbackenabler for therapy aside of the obvious 2 that were mentioned? Bloodghast in my opinion does not work in this deck

@ mr. safety: the idea of tidehollow sculler though is quite intresting, would you mind sharing your most recent decklist with this little guy and maybe describe how the tech with him and liliana works,... i still do not get that
sadly tidehollow sculler does not work with cabal therapy :P

[Kich867]

I tried my planeswalker heavy list at Jupiter again, got 27th out of 74, so doing slightly better. I should have gone with my original plan of a Stoneforge package, I honestly feel like I would have gone 6-1 had I done that.

Matches:
Hypergenesis 0-2 (of course)
Team Italia 2-1
Birthing Pod 2-1
BUG Tempo 0-2
Sam Black's Zombies 0-2
Maverick 2-1
BUG Control 2-0

I feel like I should not have lost to bug tempo or zombies, but, it happened. I felt like if I had a batterskull was on the board, that would not have occurred haha.

[Mr. Safety]

came to the same conclusion, souls tokens are in theory the better therapy fodder, but i hate that card, i tried it a few times and it really did not fit my playstyle. nevertheless i would love to play cabal therapy, and it is really not that hard to guess what your opponent might have in hands and if you have no clue just call whatever would be most disturbing in the given scenario, but i do not want to use lingering souls as a flashback enabler, and surely i would not want to sacrifice a knight or any other creature in our deck (well maybe dryad arbor, but thats it)
strangleroot geist has allmost the same synergy with therapy as soul-token would have, but the manacost is really awkward

has anyone else a suggestion what could be used as a flashbackenabler for therapy aside of the obvious 2 that were mentioned? Bloodghast in my opinion does not work in this deck

@ mr. safety: the idea of tidehollow sculler though is quite intresting, would you mind sharing your most recent decklist with this little guy and maybe describe how the tech with him and liliana works,... i still do not get that
sadly tidehollow sculler does not work with cabal therapy :P

I was unclear: I meant that Bloodghast is tech with Liliana. My most current list is below:

4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Tidehollow Sculler
1x Tarmogoyf
1x Eternal Witness

3x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Hymn to Tourach
2x Liliana of the Veil
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Vindicate
2x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Sylvan Library

4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Marsh Flats
2x Misty Rainforest (still hunting down more Marsh Flats...)
2x Bayou
2x Scrubland
1x Savannah
4x Wasteland
1x Volrath's Stronghold
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Treetop Village


(61 cards)

Sideboard:
2x Hymn to Tourach
1x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Pernicious Deed
2x Pithing Needle
1x Engineered Plague
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Enlightened Tutor
3x Surgical Extraction

[sdematt]

I like Golgari Charm's flexibility in taking out all the Elves, but with souls tokens, I think I'd want to use Zealous Persecution instead.

Natural Order right now seems very good as a ballbreaking midrange play. Think for a second: how does one race Progenitus in this format? Most people don't have 10/10 Knights anymore, nor do they play Perish in the side (unless you're Esperblade). I was playing against Elves when I got Progenitus'd, and they just had too many blockers for me to get through. Running Perish might not be a bad idea, but nuking your own guys seems super subpar.

-Matt