[Deck] WUr Wafo/Cuneo Draw-Go Control

[Mr. Safety]

I played against faeries online and I went 1-2. Verdict is one of the best cards, making me maindeck 3 along with one wrath. Remember that my version is strictly u/w, just for reference. I felt that the match was winnable, all of the games were long grinders. Gideon is amazing against faeries, and snappy played wrath duty for the entire match.

The surprise from that deck was cavern of souls...this is a beating against this deck, red or not. The traditional lists with rex should be adjusting to include volcanic fallout.

[Davran]

I realize that 5 cmc is tough, but what about Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir? If you can resolve him and protect him (both not easy to do) he wrecks both Faeries and the tempo and popular control version of this deck.

He worked really well for Ben Stark at Worlds in game 3 when he drew him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCmJY5AlBEY (Game 3 starts around 54 minutes)

Thoughts?

Teferi could be an option...but I'm not sure it will do enough. He costs 5 where their most relevant threats cost 2 and 4 respectively, he doesn't fly, and they can simply chump block indefinitely if they're really in a bind. It's much better against a deck like ours where the reasonable body is actually a clock.

I played against faeries online and I went 1-2. Verdict is one of the best cards, making me maindeck 3 along with one wrath. Remember that my version is strictly u/w, just for reference. I felt that the match was winnable, all of the games were long grinders. Gideon is amazing against faeries, and snappy played wrath duty for the entire match.

The surprise from that deck was cavern of souls...this is a beating against this deck, red or not. The traditional lists with rex should be adjusting to include volcanic fallout.

Verdict is fine because they play creatures, but it still does nothing vs. Blossom. If we could verdict and deploy some kind of a threat we might be getting somewhere...but casting verdict and running your clock into a counterwall seems less than productive.

Volcanic Fallout is definitely something I'm looking to make room for, probably out of the board. Unfortunately they can still stick a Mistbind, which is quite problematic for us unless they tap out to do it and we're holding both a white land and a Path.

[nodahero]

I piloted the following list to a 3-1 (7-3 in games) record.


4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Arid Mesa
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
2x Ghost Quarter

4x Snapcaster Mage

2x Supreme Verdict
1x Pyroclasm
3x Telling Time
3x Cryptic Command
3x Mana Leak
3x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Spellsnare
2x Ajani Vengeant
2x Sphinx's Revelation
4x Electroylze
2x Lightning Helix

SB (Terrible, I made it last second)
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Pyroclasm
1x Cryptic Command
1x Mana Leak
1x Path to Exile
1x Spell Snare
2x Shadow of Doubt
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
1x Chandra Pyromaster
1x Batterskull
2x (5 mana 5/5 flying haste dragon that zaps fliers)
1x Stony Silence


My only match loss was to Merfolk where between drawing to few lands and him have double and tripple Spreading Sea's respectively, found myself unable to cast any removal effectivly enough to pull out a win.

In order, I defeated Mono white Nykthos Control, (can't remember at the moment), and RG Tron. I lost to Merfolk in the 4th round.

Two lessons I learned, Telling Time is terrible compared to Think Twice, especially after game 1. The mini-impulse is better game 1 at the start, but the second card draw from Think Twice makes it WORLDS better overall.

Also I think I should probably drop an Electroylze for a Helix or maybe a Path. The curve was super tight in the early rounds so I feel like this would be a good adjustment especially if/when I swap in Think Twice for Telling Time.

Another note, the variety of Walker's and win cons in the board was actually handy in beating the mono white thing due to the Nevermores and Runed Halos. Also the surprise 5 haste damage was critical in beating tron in game 3 (i managed to bounce/shadow/Ghost Quarter sufficently to keep him from overwhelming me with Tron's threats till I eeked out a win through a bevy of burn to his face).

[Mr. Safety]

Teferi could be an option...but I'm not sure it will do enough. He costs 5 where their most relevant threats cost 2 and 4 respectively, he doesn't fly, and they can simply chump block indefinitely if they're really in a bind. It's much better against a deck like ours where the reasonable body is actually a clock.



Verdict is fine because they play creatures, but it still does nothing vs. Blossom. If we could verdict and deploy some kind of a threat we might be getting somewhere...but casting verdict and running your clock into a counterwall seems less than productive.

Volcanic Fallout is definitely something I'm looking to make room for, probably out of the board. Unfortunately they can still stick a Mistbind, which is quite problematic for us unless they tap out to do it and we're holding both a white land and a Path.

All of my threats, save gideon, have flash too. A resolved gideon is VERY good against faeries. Hitting for 6 a turn is fast enough after wiping and considering lifeloss from blossom. Up to 2 gideons maindeck, dropping the elspeth, possibly forever.

[nodahero]

Is bashing with Giddeon really an option? If you get the opening without them having a blossom active you would likely win with any threat and Giddeon is way better on defense I would wager.

If they have a blossom in play Giddeon is essentially a 1 life loss a turn attacker because they will simply block him.

I'm not saying Giddeon is poor just against Faye as an offensive weapon, he seems win more.

[Arsenal]

I've always disliked Gideon. He's expensive, he turns on your opponent's spot removal if you +0 him, his +2 isn't guaranteed should he be removed prior to combat, etc. Everytime I've drawn him, I just wanted him to be Supreme Verdict as it's cheaper, uncounterable, and guaranteed to impact the board. I run the 2nd Ajani over Gideon as he's always been too clunky and awkward for my tastes.

[nodahero]

What does your current list look like Arsenal? Also are you going to the modern tourney in Fond Dulac this weekend?

[Arsenal]

What does your current list look like Arsenal? Also are you going to the modern tourney in Fond Dulac this weekend?

GOD I wish I could but I have to go up to Stevens Point, WI to visit family that came in from Houston, TX. I've been crushing my LGS in the last few weeks (11-1) and have been running super hot... My list is on the first page: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post772807

BTW, I've been nothing but impressed by Negate in the SB for the control and combo matchups. Those matchups tend to be long, grindy affairs until combo is ready to go off or control is ready to start tapping mainphase mana. In those situations, Negate is sooooooo much better than Dispel as Negate literally hits every engine and/or win condition + does work in the counter war whereas Dispel only really shines in the counter war.

[Mr. Safety]

Playing 2 Negates in my board, very impressed. Love it. My experience, without red, is that gideon has been great. I essentially play 8 wraths and 8 cryptics...gideon gets throigh just fine. Remember, no red. I could play a baneslayer, but still have it open to removal. Gideon has bought me time to draw into wraths and is amazing post wrath.

[radiowave]

Bitterblossom is the most powerful card in the format. It will become a thing and short of a banning stay there. Fae is incredible without BB.

The bolded seems like the biggest overestimation of a card I've seen in the Modern forums here. The card is pretty good against this deck, especially if you can't burn them out to close the game, but it's not that busted in general. It takes a long time to take over a game, and this is a format full of cards that take over (/end) the game immediately.

In the immediate term people are obviously going to play Faeries, but I have yet to see a build that has enough favorable matchups against the top decks to make up for the awful ones (should beat Affinity pretty consistently, but can't beat Zoo and seems very unfavored against Pod). I would be much more worried about Bitterblossom in GB/GBW, BW Tokens, and Team Italia decks than in Faeries, since those decks are more likely to be good in the format.

[Arsenal]

The only Faeries deck I ever played against was Jeff Hoogland's UR Faeries. I wasn't that impressed as it ran far too many */1 dudes that just died to every removal spell I played and it's mid-late game was terribad unless he had Equipment. I believe that even Jeff said on stream that UWR Control is one of his worst matchups due to the infinite removal and powerful late game bombs it had. I'm not understanding how Faeries was incredible as it was firmly entrenched in tier 2/3 status.

[nodahero]

While this is pure extrapolation from Standard years ago, Faye was a dominant force because of the quality of players who choose to use them.

The Faye players are typically the ones who have a very strong grasp on the game as a whole and as such are able to utilize things like V-Clique and M-CLique to amazing results.

@Aresenal--- Have you had issues with your had being clogged with Cryptics? I keep wanting to bring the 4th back to the main but it feels so awkward to have 2 in hand in the early stages when it could be something more "flexible" such as a Helix.

[Arsenal]

Not so far, but I can definitely see why people only want to run 3. However, I really think it's our best card (Snapcaster is a close 2nd, especially now that DRS is gone) and I'm hesistant to replace it with something like a 3rd Helix, etc. I may trim my Electrolyze count to 2 and go up to 3 Helix, but I don't know, Electrolyze can be a mini-Cryptic Command some games, and it may prove to be useful should UB Fae become a thing (we already crush Zoo without too much trouble, so a 3rd Helix isn't as enticing as the 3rd Electrolyze).

[radiowave]

The only Faeries deck I ever played against was Jeff Hoogland's UR Faeries. I wasn't that impressed as it ran far too many */1 dudes that just died to every removal spell I played and it's mid-late game was terribad unless he had Equipment. I believe that even Jeff said on stream that UWR Control is one of his worst matchups due to the infinite removal and powerful late game bombs it had. I'm not understanding how Faeries was incredible as it was firmly entrenched in tier 2/3 status.

Look at the decks in the same environments as Faeries and it'll probably become more apparent why it was good at the time. In Standard it was competing against stuff like Boat Brew and Kithkin. Look at Extended Jund with Putrid Leech, Fauna Shaman, and Demigod of Revenge compared to Jund in Modern with Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, Liliana of the Veil. Then consider that Faeries doesn't really have much (maindeck) that it didn't have in Lorwyn/Shards Standard- they don't have JTMS (unlike in Extended) or Ancestral Vision (like in Time Spiral/Lorwyn).

People remember Faeries being good when it had better tools and everyone else was in the stone age relative to where they are now.

[jarvisyu]

Look at the decks in the same environments as Faeries and it'll probably become more apparent why it was good at the time. In Standard it was competing against stuff like Boat Brew and Kithkin. Look at Extended Jund with Putrid Leech, Fauna Shaman, and Demigod of Revenge compared to Jund in Modern with Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, Liliana of the Veil. Then consider that Faeries doesn't really have much (maindeck) that it didn't have in Lorwyn/Shards Standard- they don't have JTMS (unlike in Extended) or Ancestral Vision (like in Time Spiral/Lorwyn).

People remember Faeries being good when it had better tools and everyone else was in the stone age relative to where they are now.

JTMS was the worst card in Faeries.

[Arsenal]

@radiowave

Oh, I understand that Faeries was dominant in it's respective Standard/Extended environments, but my post was in response to YamiJoey's claim that Faeries (within the context of Modern) is "incredible" even without taking Bitterblossom into consideration. I then explained that Faeries in Modern is a firm tier 2/3 deck and the only Faeries deck that sees any "success" isn't even UB.

[jarvisyu]

@radiowave

Oh, I understand that Faeries was dominant in it's respective Standard/Extended environments, but my post was in response to YamiJoey's claim that Faeries (within the context of Modern) is "incredible" even without taking Bitterblossom into consideration. I then explained that Faeries in Modern is a firm tier 2/3 deck and the only Faeries deck that sees any "success" isn't even UB.

faeries with blossom is a completely different beast than faeries without blossom.

in addition, the lists i see people post here are for the most part not even remotely close to a real deck for UB Faeries.

[nodahero]

I just went and did a breakdown of your list, Arsenal next to mine, and our lists are fairly identical. The only variations are as follows:
I run 2 less lands over all then you
I run 1 more Sulfur Falls and you run 3 Tecontic Edges over my two Ghost Quarters.
Then you run 1 more Arrid Mesa and 1 Island.

Spell wise, I run 1 more sweeper in Clasm then you.
I also run 3 Telling Time compared to your two Think twice (This part and the above Clasm balance out the lands vs spell count).

Then you run 1 more Cryptic over my Electrolyze.

Looking at it from this perspective it feels like your list is a bit better in the long game then I am by havign access to the backside of Think Twice and the extra Cryptic; not to mention the extra couple of lands.

My list is a little more "to the point" by getting a bit more digging in Telling Time and the cantrip in Electrolyze.

Curve wise we are essentially identical all things considered.

Also, as a side note, I fully agree with Think Twice over Telling Time unless the format speeds up considerablly, if it doesn't I think the random extra draw is better then the selection.

@JarvisYu: No disrespect, but you are completely wrong if you think UB Faye is going to be a powerhouse comperable to what it was in Standard or Extended. The deck will be good I'm sure, but not nearly what it was before.

[jarvisyu]

I just went and did a breakdown of your list, Arsenal next to mine, and our lists are fairly identical. The only variations are as follows:
I run 2 less lands over all then you
I run 1 more Sulfur Falls and you run 3 Tecontic Edges over my two Ghost Quarters.
Then you run 1 more Arrid Mesa and 1 Island.

Spell wise, I run 1 more sweeper in Clasm then you.
I also run 3 Telling Time compared to your two Think twice (This part and the above Clasm balance out the lands vs spell count).

Then you run 1 more Cryptic over my Electrolyze.

Looking at it from this perspective it feels like your list is a bit better in the long game then I am by havign access to the backside of Think Twice and the extra Cryptic; not to mention the extra couple of lands.

My list is a little more "to the point" by getting a bit more digging in Telling Time and the cantrip in Electrolyze.

Curve wise we are essentially identical all things considered.

Also, as a side note, I fully agree with Think Twice over Telling Time unless the format speeds up considerablly, if it doesn't I think the random extra draw is better then the selection.

@JarvisYu: No disrespect, but you are completely wrong if you think UB Faye is going to be a powerhouse comperable to what it was in Standard or Extended. The deck will be good I'm sure, but not nearly what it was before.

i didn't say it would be crushing. in fact in my current testing, pod is a very difficult matchup for Faeries. things change. I'm just saying people's claims are fairly absurd when they post 22-23 land UB Faerie decks.

[Arsenal]

I have yet to see any UB Faeries deck in Modern. I have only seen pre-Feb 7th, 2013 UR Faeries lists similar to what Jeff Hoogland has been running. Could you link me to a tourney UB Faeries decklist? I use TCDecks and I can't really find anything current for UB Faeries.