All B/R update speculation.

[nedleeds]

Academy in a format where LED and Petal are 4 of's would be fucking miserable.

[PirateKing]

Academy would motivate me to build some UG cheeri0s/high tide Glimpse of Nature & Blue Sun's Zenith combo deck. Makes me twitch just thinking of using Candelabra to untap both Cradle and Academy.

[nedleeds]

Pretty sure Mind Over Matter goes in a Flex Slot.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

How come Academy costsbillion? Unless something happend to dollar, I see it for 600 crowns in our lgs. Yep, it's not the cheapest cheap-ass land ever, but we're discussing Legacy, where your usual opening of blue fetch, blue dual, Ponder cost something like 300 bucks.

[Lemnear]

Huh?

How does Recruiter take more time than Doomsday? When you cast the card you *should* already know what pile you are making.
Also, if you win the turn you cast him, how is that worse than High Tide?

At least you only stack 5 cards ONCE and not 30+ in like EVERY TURN

[thecrav]

How come Academy costsbillion? Unless something happend to dollar, I see it for 600 crowns in our lgs. Yep, it's not the cheapest cheap-ass land ever, but we're discussing Legacy, where your usual opening of blue fetch, blue dual, Ponder cost something like 300 bucks.

lolwut

talk in freedom dollars or sean and i won't understand you.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

lolwut

talk in freedom dollars or sean and i won't understand you.

What are freedom dolars? Canadian money?
No matter what I still got no idea why price should be a factor when considering the unbanning of Tolarian Academy. The trouble with Academy is in its power, not price.

[Gheizen64]

How come Academy costsbillion? Unless something happend to dollar, I see it for 600 crowns in our lgs. Yep, it's not the cheapest cheap-ass land ever, but we're discussing Legacy, where your usual opening of blue fetch, blue dual, Ponder cost something like 300 bucks.

That is cause Academy is currently a 1-of in a unplayed format. 4-of in popular format? Easily 200$ card right there. Same as cradle, probably worse cause it's U-based mana and slightly less narrow.

I guess you could play like 16 thopter, 4 gaeas+ 4 tolarian + glimpse + the UG glimpse and have fun. CotV for 0 you lose. FoW on glimpse you lose. Every other hand being a mull. Probably better than belcher but uuuh.
Playing it in AnT would make the deck much better i think. 4 led + 4 petal +2 chrome mox +2 SdT +4 chromatic star + 4 academy, remove some fetches, maybe lower total of lands by 1 , remove a card here and there... yeah probably broken.

EDIT: not it actually is broken:

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Chromatic Star
4 Dark Ritual
4 Tolarian Academy
3 Underground Sea
2 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Duress
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
3 Ponder
4 Polluted Delta
1 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Swamp

Fixed academy to give colorless please. Then i can play brown decks in my legacy.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

That is cause Academy is currently a 1-of in a unplayed format. 4-of in popular format? Easily 200$ card right there. Same as cradle, probably worse cause it's U-based mana and slightly less narrow.

Um... I swear I knew this argument will show up.

A dude above wrote that Academy costs billion. It does not. In fact (and contrary to the Mask of Nobody Plays The Card), it's banned because of its power, not because of its price, something something causal nexus.
Would it be expensive if they'd unban it? Definitely. Gaea's Cradle.
But it'll remain banned. Because of its power. Not price.

[Ace/Homebrew]

At least you only stack 5 cards ONCE and not 30+ in like EVERY TURN

What 30 cards do you need to stack every turn?

Assuming Goblin Recruiter and Food Chain are on the board already:
Goblin Ringleader, Goblin Warchief (2), Goblin Piledriver (7), Goblin Piledriver (7), Goblin Piledriver (7).
I count 5 cards and 23 damage... Did I win yet?

[Dice_Box]

You know you have to Sac some of them for mana right?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Assuming Recruiter and Chain are on the field, plus the 3 lands you needed to cast Chain...
Recruiter gets you
Add another and you cast Ringleader drawing your 4 goblins.
Ringleader gets you
Add another and you can cast all 4 you drew.
Swing FTW!

[Lemnear]

What 30 cards do you need to stack every turn?

Assuming Goblin Recruiter and Food Chain are on the board already:
Goblin Ringleader, Goblin Warchief (2), Goblin Piledriver (7), Goblin Piledriver (7), Goblin Piledriver (7).
I count 5 cards and 23 damage... Did I win yet?

You didn't get any of the arguments we presented here over the last pages, did you? It's totally wayne that you can execute this auto-pilot pile with a goldfish as opponent and with Recruiter and Foodchain already on the table as it is well-known tech. The point was using the fact that you are allowed to stack your whole deck for several minutes with each Recruiter cast.

Imagine a game 2 against a control deck (BUG Walker or Miracles for example) where you managed to win game 1 and in this game two your opponent slammed a Moat on the field! Now you can stack your Recruiters to cast them every fucking turn (or two) and drag out the game for a 1:0 victory which is basically the same gameplan Sheherazade.dec had: Aggro rush game 1 and/or 2, then stall game 2 or 3 into a 1:0 or 1:1

[Dice_Box]

No, if Moat hits the table you stack a Kiki, Lighting and Prospector pile and shoot them down. Another way is to drop a Sharpshooter, Prospector and Siege, then for every 3 goblins you sac you deal 5 damage.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Imagine a game 2 against a control deck (BUG Walker or Miracles for example) where you managed to win game 1 and in this game two your opponent slammed a Moat on the field! Now you can stack your Recruiters to cast them every fucking turn (or two) and drag out the game for a 1:0 victory which is basically the same gameplan Sheherazade.dec had: Aggro rush game 1 and/or 2, then stall game 2 or 3 into a 1:0 or 1:1

Imagine a Food Chain Goblin deck sculpted by such a meta. By adding 1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror breaker and 1 Lightning Crafter you can just win past a moat... Again a very simple pile that a pilot with 1+ game against the decks you mentioned would know about.

Assuming Food Chain and Moat are on the board, you cast Recruiter and stack:

Goblin Ringleader, Goblin Warchief, Goblin Matron, Lightning Crafter, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror breaker

Recruiter gives you RRR
Adding from your 3 lands lets you cast Ringleader and draw your 4 other goblins.
Ringleader gives you RRRRR
Cast Warchief, cast Matron -> search for Matron
Matron gives you RRRR
Adding from your 2 remaining lands lets you cast Kiki
Warchief gives you RRRR
Cast Crafter, Champion trigger on the stack, combo out with Kiki.

No 30 card pile or stalling needed.

"It's totally wayne" - I'm unfamiliar with this phrase. What does it mean? Context implies it means "It's well known that".

[Sisyphos]

"It's totally wayne" - I'm unfamiliar with this phrase. What does it mean?

"Wayne" is a colloquialism used in Germany meaning somthing doesn't matter or is irrelevant. Don't know if it is used in this context elsewhere. Just read the sentence as: "It doesn't matter that you can execute this auto-pilot..." and you will get what he was trying to say. It's basically how cool kids talk these days, just like using the word "cool" itself a generation ago.

[Richard Cheese]

What's all this nonsense about delay of game and stalling? Just cast recruiter the turn after you cast Charbelcher.

[nedleeds]

lolwut

talk in freedom dollars or sean and i won't understand you.

or

[Lemnear]

"Wayne" is a colloquialism used in Germany meaning somthing doesn't matter or is irrelevant. Don't know if it is used in this context elsewhere. Just read the sentence as: "It doesn't matter that you can execute this auto-pilot..." and you will get what he was trying to say. It's basically how cool kids talk these days, just like using the word "cool" itself a generation ago.

I apologize. I'm too old for this slang in general and it has no place here either. :/

Anyways, looks like the example for stalling against Moat wasn't well-picked. You still got the idea here. Feel free to pick your own scenario ;)


P.S.: what's the issue about currency?

[Ellomdian]

...
Dragon = draw games, fix the rule interaction or keep it banned.
...
Survival. This card is insanely strong, however, it also create a definitely non-blue archetype. So, just to see a G (probably GBW) deck get more presence in the format, i'd like it to get unbanned. Keeping DRS untapped make the card so much weaker compared to the old since a lot of decks play T1 hate for Vengevines.
...
Desire and YWBargain. With more and more storm hate getting printed (latest being the extremely subpar eidolon of great revel, the other being Spirit of the Labyrinth), i honestly think those two cards could get off and create an interesting dinamic for the format, basically slow controllish creatures like SFM would get much less viable, and in turn TNN , cause they apply too little pressure on combo .
...
Recruiter ruin games cause it waste too much time. It's sherazad 2.0
...
Alexandria and Academy are probably not even overpowered by today standards... It would be interesting to see decks trying to abuse it, but the card is unbannable due to cost. Which is sad, especially for academy, because there are so many interesting decks it could power... Academy would be a much better unban, if not for the fact it cost a fucking billion dollars.
...
Jar seems safe.

Just some selected quotes from this post. I was going to comment on the "Academy is a billion dollars" thing, where 1,000,000,000 = $27.16 (mtgprice), and parry the inevitable "But it will go up if it's unbanned, look at Cradle" arguments (you know, because Cradle has been a casual staple for a decade and a half, played in EDH as much as it is played in Legacy, whereas Academy is a card that will start fights depending how long your friends have been playing.) But after reading the rest of the suggestions, ie "Jar seems safe" I figured the post could stand on it's own :)

Academy in a format where LED and Petal are 4 of's would be fucking miserable.

Eh, I think you overrate the power of academy versus rituals. I think it's probably realistic to assume the Academy is going to tap for >1 mana ~50% of the time, but on the other hand, it's going to be so very slow and dead in most storm builds the same percentage. As for the Eggs/Turbo-Academy-esque shell posted; yes, if Academy was unbanned, people would probably build around it. But I am genuinely curious to know if it would suddenly be that much stronger than fast combo is today, or even stronger than Tide for that matter.

I would also be super interested to see some thought exercises with Library, except that even rumors of it getting unbanned probably drive the real-market price north of $350.