[Deck] Goblins

[GoboLord]

1R
Creature - Goblin Rogue
Morph 2R
When Mock instigator face up, if is your turn, Untap target creature and take control of it until end of turn. That creature gains haste until end of turn.
2/1

Saw him too. Very playable. I LIKE.
Maybe as a 1-off since he does bind some mana.

//Edit:
On a second thought: i dont like that the ability only Works on our turn. Probably not playable then

[Vandalize]

Saw him too. Very playable. I LIKE.
Maybe as a 1-off since he does bind some mana.

//Edit:
On a second thought: i dont like that the ability only Works on our turn. Probably not playable then

Well, stealing Batterskull germ or 5/6 Tarmogoyf (the likely size against us, due to Tarfire) for a single swing isn't bad. I think 1-of is fair enough.

I guess it should be fun against Show and Tell'd creatures :d

[dissy]

Well, stealing Batterskull germ or 5/6 Tarmogoyf (the likely size against us, due to Tarfire) for a single swing isn't bad. I think 1-of is fair enough.

I guess it should be fun against Show and Tell'd creatures :d

Jup taking over a emrakul is waymore fun than bouncing it.
But can you choose to put the creature morphed in to play when ur opponent puts in emrakul?

[potatodavid]

1R
Creature - Goblin Rogue
Morph 2R
When Mock instigator face up, if is your turn, Untap target creature and take control of it until end of turn. That creature gains haste until end of turn.
2/1

Another grenzo level goblin. Seems cool at first. He's has a total mana investment of 6, his ability only works on YOUR TURN if you plan on taking a creature, so weird combat tricks when someone swings is completely out of the question. He cant be vialed face down, he can't be caverened face down. He doesn't get any buff face down. He's pretty bad. JUNK!

Trust me, i want to steal someone's emrakul but i know that's not happening.

[dissy]

Another grenzo level goblin. Seems cool at first. He's has a total mana investment of 6, his ability only works on YOUR TURN if you plan on taking a creature, so weird combat tricks when someone swings is completely out of the question. He cant be vialed face down, he can't be caverened face down. He doesn't get any buff face down. He's pretty bad. JUNK!

Trust me, i want to steal someone's emrakul but i know that's not happening.

Guess you are right wel iam going to a 50 people legacy tournament sunday.
i have two decks wich i can play. Cool's goblins list or belcher both pretty fun.
I might give the little green man a try and hope to dodge blade decks......

[Ace/Homebrew]

Mock Instigator is a swing and a miss...
If he was EtB - Threaten, he'd have been playable (even with a or cost). Morph and 'if it is your turn' killed his Legacy playability.

Dissy - No you cannot put a creature into play morphed off S+T.

[GoboLord]

I might give the little green man a try and hope to dodge blade decks......

cooljets' and my list has an even/slightly positive MU against blade decks. Just make sure to run enough (2 or more) Shatter goblins + the full set of Tarfire

I'd say you need to dodge Junk, Jund and PunishingFire.dec instead.

[cooljets]

Yeah, the blade decks are one of our GOOD matchups. And that's one reason why our deck is so great, because SFM/equipment decks are very popular right now.

[LeoCop 90]

Oh my god mocking instigator is RARE ? i thought it was common or at best uncommon reading it.... six mana to steal a creature are worthless. I'm losing hope for a decent goblin also in this set.

And Ankle Shanker is just as you described it but a 2/2 rather than a 3/3 XD

[GoboLord]

Yeah, the blade decks are one of our GOOD matchups. And that's one reason why our deck is so great, because SFM/equipment decks are very popular right now.

Going through your last tournaments reports I noticed that you boarded in 2 Sharpshooter against a lot of decks, so I decided to play a 2nd copy in the board (1st copy is already in MD). After testing against D&T a small number of games today, I am totally sold in it - the card is just GREAT. I found D&T a very close and even MU so far, but my list is now tuned to beat it with:

* your double-Sharpshooter tech
* mrblueduck's double-Pendelhaven (which is just awsome against Sword of Fire and Ice)
* my backstep to 2 Warchief in MD (when I'm losing games it oftentimes has to do with being short on mana AND my opponents somehow being able to control my Vials. Warchief fixes this problem, e.g. when Revoker blocks your Vial while Rishadan Ports work on my mana and I'm one land short from playing my game).

I'm really missing B as I can't find a red goblin-card that replaces Earwig Squad. Probably it will be Goblin Settler. But as long as I can't fit in Pendelhavens in a Rb list my deck will stay like this:

MANA [22]
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
3 Chrome Mox
2 Pendelhaven
10 Mountains

CORE [35]
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Tarfire
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

META [3]
2 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Sharpshooter

Sideboard [15]
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 OPEN

[cooljets]

Yeah, Pendelhaven is the one thing I really do wanna try, but I don't think it can work with the black splash. And I don't know if I want to abandon the Earwig squads, they're surprisingly good and always catch people off guard. More Goblin Settlers (at least a second in the board) will probably be the next change I make, once I get my hands on a second on that is. 2 of Goblin Warchief seems fine, although I think I'm going to stick with my bigger toolbox, for now.

One more thing I am a bit worried about as I start to gear up for the Legacy GP in New Jersey... am I going to be able to know what to name with Cabal Therapy against every matchup? Do I want to hedge my bets and change it to Thoughtseize or Inquisition? Or maybe I just need to really beef up my Legacy deck knowledge beyond my local metagame before November. Hrmmm.

[jrw1985]

Read the Source. Read the last few pages of each of the Decks to Beat. Peruse the Established Decks. Then you'll know what to name with Cabal Therapy.

[GoboLord]

One more thing I am a bit worried about as I start to gear up for the Legacy GP in New Jersey... am I going to be able to know what to name with Cabal Therapy against every matchup? Do I want to hedge my bets and change it to Thoughtseize or Inquisition? Or maybe I just need to really beef up my Legacy deck knowledge beyond my local metagame before November. Hrmmm.

Cabal Therapy is strictly better than Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek and if you decide to stick to discard spells then it should be Therapy and nothing else.

There are only a handful of MUs where you actually need Therapy:

* any storm deck (ANT, TES, High Tide, Belcher etc)
* Show & Tell decks (Sneak Show and OmniTell)
* Reanimator/ TinFins

And that's about it. There might be some corner cases where you can board out all your removal and don't have any plausible SB to bring in, other than Cabal Therapy, but these are rare cases (Mighty Quinn, 12-post, something like this).

So I would work out which cards you can name Cabal Therapy in the MUs listed above, not in EVERY MU there is. When I have a little more time I will try to find a short article on Cabal Therapy (here in this thread) that I wrote some months ago, which you might find helpful.

[Zombie]

Cabal Therapy is strictly better than Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek and if you decide to stick to discard spells then it should be Therapy and nothing else.

Strictly better doesn't mean what that statement implies it to :P

Not to say that Therapy probably isn't better in skilled hands, but it's far from being strictly better than Duress variants.

[Wucherkater]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to share some thoughts about the right number of Chrome Moxe in the WInstigator list. As GoboLord mentioned before I recently played with a 2/2 split of Chrome Mox and Pyrokinesis. Reason for that was not only the card disadvantage of Pyrokinesis. I aimed to reduce the probability of

• having two or more moxe in the starting hand, and
• drawing a mox if I have to mulligan to 5 cards or lower.

Yesterday I calculated the probabilities for possible draws with the following results:

First draw (7 cards)

Moxe in deck	4	3	2
One mox in hand	32,02%	26,14%	18,87%
2 or more moxe in hand	3,53%	1,79%	0,60%

Mulligan to 6

Moxe in deck	4	3	2
One mox in hand	28,35%	22,66%	16,03%
2 or more moxe in hand	2,18%	1,09%	0,36%

Mulligan to 5

Moxe in deck	4	3	2
One mox in hand	24,07%	18,84%	13,07%
2 or more moxe in hand	1,13%	0,55%	0,18%

Both the probability of drawing two or more moxe and the probability of drawing a mox at a mulligan to 5 cards significantly decrease with decreasing number of moxe in deck. However, it also reduces the probability of having a mox in the first draw (even if not at the same rate) and therefore the speed of the deck. I personally thought that the advantages (the reduction of the two probabilities I wanted to minimize) that come along with playing only 2 moxe would be higher than these numbers tell. Based on the numbers, one might actually think of playing with 4 moxe. Even a probability of 3,53% of having to mulligan because of drawing 2 moxe is acceptable in my opinion.

I personally will try out playing 4 moxe in my deck and cut the 2 Pyrokinesis. I experienced several situations, where I would have preferred a Tarfire (which I did replace by Pyrokinesis) over the Pyrokinesis that I held in my hand. I also think that holding one Chrome Mox makes mediocre hand more playable and therefore decreases the probability of having to mulligan. This might compensate for the disadvantages that come along with playing more moxe.

[Vandalize]

Guys, remember that Pyrokinesis is only card disadvantage if it kills one creature. If it kills 2 or more, it's even -> card advantage.

In a list playing Pendelhaven, Cavern of Souls (and probably Fetchlands, Taiga), isn't Tin Street Hooligan strictly better than Tuktuk Scrapper? There are a lot of green mana producers, and the lack of Goblin Warchief makes it extremely playable. Think of this: in the right manabase, how often will you NOT have a green source in four lands (Tuktuk's manacost)?

[GoboLord]

In a list playing Pendelhaven, Cavern of Souls (and probably Fetchlands, Taiga), isn't Tin Street Hooligan strictly better than Tuktuk Scrapper? There are a lot of green mana producers, and the lack of Goblin Warchief makes it extremely playable. Think of this: in the right manabase, how often will you NOT have a green source in four lands (Tuktuk's manacost)?

You also have to consider that TSH does not work with Aether Vial, Lackey, Winstigator and Kiki-Jiki, which is my reason to run that clunky Tuktuk over TSH. "Castability" is an issue for both cards.´, as the one would cost 4 mana to actually CAST and the other requires G ) a splashcolor that I don't find attractive right now.

[Vandalize]

You also have to consider that TSH does not work with Aether Vial, Lackey, Winstigator and Kiki-Jiki, which is my reason to run that clunky Tuktuk over TSH. "Castability" is an issue for both cards.´, as the one would cost 4 mana to actually CAST and the other requires G ) a splashcolor that I don't find attractive right now.

I can only agree that TukTuk is better with AEther Vial. How often are you able to connect with Instigator and Lackey to drop TukTuk? How often do you need TukTuk when you're able to connect with Instigator or Lackey? Attacking with these two in the face of Batterskull, or a creature equipped with Jitte is pretty bad. I've actually never activated Kiki-Jiki in a TukTuk Scrapper, but that's just me. Still, it seems like a reaaaaallly corner case.

What I like about TSH, is that at 2CMC, it can mess up with AEther Vial from DnT and Merfolks, while TukTuk Scrapper would only deal with it by the time it has 2~3 counters. It also deals with Phyrexian Revoker faster, when you don't have that Tarfire available.

[dissy]

hey,

I was wondering if 4 tarfire and stingscourger enough is to get ur lackey and winstigator true?
thinking about adding a gempalm and taking out a piledriver.

[GoboLord]

hey,

I was wondering if 4 tarfire and stingscourger enough is to get ur lackey and winstigator true?
thinking about adding a gempalm and taking out a piledriver.

It's not only 4 Tarfire, and Stingscourger, but also 4 Chieftain, 2 Pendelhaven and Chrome Mox which will force your "lackeys" through blocking Squires. This is enough. The more non-creatures you run, the worse Lackey and WInstigator become. Gempalm doesn't help you clear the way in early turns, its more a mid- to late-game removal spell.