Thanks, that is really useful.
For Dredge, that is inaccurate. 1 is also very important because of Cabal Therapy and Faithless Looting. It depends on your hand and how you want to play the game. 0 is fine if you have no other way of stopping an explosive start (no Sol land) but I would rather play it at 1 first.
This is very true, but if you have all 3 of our lock pieces in your opening hand and could easily play any of them turn 1, I think the best order would be:Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard
Trinisphere
Chalice
Moon
Of course, the variations of cards could make it so that this may not be the correct order. I always take a good look at what I can do with just the cards in my hand and then sequence accordingly. You can't guarantee that you will draw another red source if you only have SSG, for example. In that case chalice off of your Tomb is going to be the best T1 play, and then if you get a Mox or Mountain you can hold that SSG for a Moggcatcher while still being able to lay a Moon effect T2 no matter what.
@Zirath
As I said, they were just notes. I do agree though
If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
Legacy Goblins Records
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Thanks guys!
Browsing around the social interwebs a couple days ago. Stumble across a photo. Game state has me completely baffled, so I assume it's some form of Dragon/Moon Stompy. Board state is as follows:
Magus of the Moon x2
Chalice with 1 Counters
Chalice with 0 Counters
Stranglehold
5 Lands.
Didn't think anything about it initially, but is stranglehold a staple in moonstompy lists? Is it a card that should be put in the consideration radar. It seems back breaking for a lot of decks, Dodges abrupt decay, hoses SFM/Fetches. Is it worth the Sideboard slot?
Sure it wasn't Vintage?
Time Walk is a thing in that format. It was probably a Budget Moon Aggro style deck.
I always wanted to use Stanglehold, but it costs 1 mana too much. And Legacy doesn't really care about extra turns.
But it cares about library searching - this thing shuts down fetchlands, tutors, etc. But this deck already has too much hate: 8 moons, 4 chalice, X trinisphere, so Stranglehold is win moreI always wanted to use Stanglehold, but it costs 1 mana too much. And Legacy doesn't really care about extra turns.
yeah, this looks like my board state the other day I was playing. I was actually playing against Hive Mind. Stranglehold actually won me that game. I was playing goblin stompy. I actually like playing stranglehold because it does hose so many cards in legacy and is not completely dead in later draws.
I know stranglehold seems clunky, but it's always been backbreaking when it hits play. I have had nothing but success with it and it's another must answer card. I rather see a stranglehold instead of another blood moon when I already have one down on the field. I'm not saying that it's an auto add, but I have found success with it.
Lands:
4x city of traitors
4x ancient tomb
2x cavern of souls
9x mountains
creatures:
4x moggcatcher
3x rabblemaster
2x siege-gang
1x kiki-jiki
1x goblin settler
1x murderous redcap
1x stingscourger
1x tuktuk scrapper
4x moon man
4x SSG
spells:
4x chrome mox
4x chalice
3x trini
3x bloodmoon
2x stranglehold
1x Chandra, pyromaster
1x jitte
1x SoFI
SB:
3x pyrokinesis
3x bridges
3x faerie macabre
1x stingscourger
1x goblin king
2x koth
1x scrapper
1x sharpshooter
There is also widespread panic that has the ideal cost of 2R and punishes people for searching library. I do agree with nonja that we already have plenty of hate pieces for the format. and if we want to include another one, it'd better be much more powerful.
The problem with all of these hate pieces that affect fetchlands - like Stranglehold, Widespread Panic, and Suppression Field - is that they are sorcery speed and usually come down no earlier than Turn 2. To be maximally effective, they need to be played Turn 1, on the play, with a Chrome Mox or Lotus Petal PLUS a Sol-Land. This situation is definitely less than 20% of situations in which you draw these hate pieces.
In the vast majority of situations in which you draw your Stranglehold, Widespread Panic, or Suppression Field, your opponent will have already played a fetch or two, and will fetch in response to the casting of the hate piece. And then he will probably either have another non-fetch land in his hand, or topdeck more. If that happens, you essentially played a blank card - not only losing card advantage, but losing out on tempo because you spent a whole turn's worth of mana on something that isn't doing anything for you.
These cards are deceptive because in that <20% of situations in which you get them in play, on the play, against an opponent with a grip full of fetchlands, they're AWESOME. But in *most* situations, they end up being liabilities.
I added stranglehold because it has a bit more application than just an early fetch stopper. It's still effective as a later play. It stops SFM, intuition, tutor pieces, and fetches that will be played later. I've had too many times where I drew moon after moon and decided that I don't need 8 moons. So I'm playing 7 moons. Was only playing one stranglehold, but decided to up it to two. I know I'm the minority on my decision on adding the card, but I like it's effect and that it's not completely dead on later draws.
Well, I got some insight. I thought it was a pretty neat idea, especially because there's plenty of ways to kill bloodmoon effects, thanks for posting your list. I plan on trying it out.
Had a fairly successful night at my LGS.
11 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Sudden Demise
Sideboard
1 Trinisphere
2 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Stone Rain
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger
2 Sudden Demise
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
There were 34 players so the structure was 'the top 8 after 5 rounds split' rather than '4 rounds, then top 8 play it out'.
The decent turnout was probably due to GP Oaks, PA happening this weekend.
Round 1: Khari with UWR Stoneblade. 2-0
He had no idea this deck was even a thing. 2-0 pretty easily.
Round 2: Brian with Dredge. 2-1
He was aware this deck exists but had never played against it. I took game 1 with turn 1 Chalice @1 followed by turn 2 Magus. Lost game 2 when I mulled to 4. Took game 3 on the back of turn 1 Chalice @1 followed by turn 2 Magus (go with what works, right?).
Round 3: Mike with Infect. 0-2
My turn to play a deck that I've never played... I lost game 1 when I mulled to 4. I lost game 2 on turn 3. Wah wah...
Round 4: Zach with Miracles. 2-1
Lost game one after getting stuck on 2 Mountains. I boarded in 3 Stone Rain, 2 Settlers, Kiki, my 4th Koth, and 4th Trinisphere. Game 2 poor Zach never had a chance once he let my turn 1 Trinisphere resolve. I followed it with a turn 2 Moggcatcher. Turn 3 I fetched up Settler. Turn 4 I searched up Kiki.
Game 3 two Stone Rains destroyed an Island and ate a FoW +card.
Round 5: Jeff with Sneak and Show. 2-1
I mull to 5 but still pull out a win thanks to top decking back to back Rabblemasters. Game 2 he got Sneak Attack online. Game 3 he never really had a chance. I had an active Moggcatcher on the board just waiting to search up a Stingscourger if he cast Sneak Attack. In my hand was an Emrakul in case he played Show and Tell.
Won $42.50 in credit.
That plus the credit I got for trading in 4 The Dark Blood Moons along with my Onslaught non-foil Heath, Strand, and Foothills and a couple bucks got me Khans foil Windswept Heath, Flooded Strand, and Wooded Foothills for Cromat.
Has anyone tried out a version of this deck with a slight artifact splash along with Daretti, Scrap Savant. The card seems really solid and it fits in this decks curve perfectly.
The problem with the deck IMO isn't a lack of hate pieces, it's a card draw and the resulting lack of consistent threats.
That's why I was curious about your thoughts on two of the spoiled cards for potential use in this deck.
They are...
Vaultbreaker 3R
Dash 2R, When this attacks, you may discard a card then draw a card.
4/2
This deck has lots of dead cards in your hand that you can easily dump anyways. Plus the 4 power and the Dash make it very aggressive.
Outpost Siege 3R
Enchantment
At the start of each of your turns, reveal the top card of your library, you may cast it that turn.
I think it definitely adds some much needed consistency to the deck.
IMO they seem trash.
I do like the red mythic:
Sorcerer of the great hunt- orc shaman 4/2 HASTE, if a creature u control deals damage +1/+1 counter and a for stompy irrelevant draw ability.
3R is kinda expensive but the haste makes up for this. Plus imagine attacking with rabblemaster and this making all your creatures even more fatter. Thats Good. Very Good!
Not Dragon Stompy, but it does have a number of soft-lock pieces involved: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...n_with_jo.html
Is there anything that we could take from this deck's noncreature lineup? Notably, they play more lands and opt for Mox Diamond as opposed to Chrome Mox and seem to employ 3 CMC enchantments to help lock the field as we do with Blood Moon.
Had a fairly successful night at my LGS.
11 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Koth of the Hammer
2 Sudden Demise
Sideboard
1 Trinisphere
2 Goblin Settler
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Stone Rain
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Stingscourger
2 Sudden Demise
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
There were 34 players so the structure was 'the top 8 after 5 rounds split' rather than '4 rounds, then top 8 play it out'.
The decent turnout was probably due to GP Oaks, PA happening this weekend.
Round 1: Khari with UWR Stoneblade. 2-0
He had no idea this deck was even a thing. 2-0 pretty easily.
Round 2: Brian with Dredge. 2-1
He was aware this deck exists but had never played against it. I took game 1 with turn 1 Chalice @1 followed by turn 2 Magus. Lost game 2 when I mulled to 4. Took game 3 on the back of turn 1 Chalice @1 followed by turn 2 Magus (go with what works, right?).
Round 3: Mike with Infect. 0-2
My turn to play a deck that I've never played... I lost game 1 when I mulled to 4. I lost game 2 on turn 3. Wah wah...
Round 4: Zach with Miracles. 2-1
Lost game one after getting stuck on 2 Mountains. I boarded in 3 Stone Rain, 2 Settlers, Kiki, my 4th Koth, and 4th Trinisphere. Game 2 poor Zach never had a chance once he let my turn 1 Trinisphere resolve. I followed it with a turn 2 Moggcatcher. Turn 3 I fetched up Settler. Turn 4 I searched up Kiki.
Game 3 two Stone Rains destroyed an Island and ate a FoW +
Round 5: Jeff with Sneak and Show. 2-1
I mull to 5 but still pull out a win thanks to top decking back to back Rabblemasters. Game 2 he got Sneak Attack online. Game 3 he never really had a chance. I had an active Moggcatcher on the board just waiting to search up a Stingscourger if he cast Sneak Attack. In my hand was an Emrakul in case he played Show and Tell.
Won $42.50 in credit.
That plus the credit I got for trading in 4 The Dark Blood Moons along with my Onslaught non-foil Heath, Strand, and Foothills and a couple bucks got me Khans foil Windswept Heath, Flooded Strand, and Wooded Foothills for Cromat.
What's the Flying Spaghetti monster in the sideboard for?
Our matchup against Painter's Servant isn't exactly favorable. We do similar things but they can combo kill us. Emrakul's shuffle clause gives us a 'freebie' because they shouldn't expect it on their first attempt to combo.
It is also decent against any deck playing Show and Tell.
If you look back a couple pages at my SCG Open report, I won a game against Reanimator with it.
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