Yeah, that's probably your best opening to try and destroy the Omniscience if you can. I'm not sure who gains priority first when the Venser trigger goes on the stack, you because it's your trigger, or your opponent because they're the active player. Either way, if they're Cunning Wishing in response to my Venser trigger, I would assume they're looking for something like Trickbind to counter the Venser trigger, so I'd counter the Wish first to try and bait your opponent's counters. If they fall for it, you're much more likely to successfully REB their Omniscience. If they don't, the Omniscience goes back to their hand anyways.Originally Posted by Poron
Also, agreed that Containment Priest is pretty bad. It'll never get your opponent since, as you say, the odds of them trying to S&T Emrakul rather than S&T Omniscience are pretty low.
mort- I keep 1-2 Terminuses in post-board because it's one of the few ways you can deal with a resolved Emrakul, and because I'm not running any Vensers at the moment.
Don't know. The thought of drawing a Terminus in that MU instead of a useful card is pretty.. meh :D I'll keep at it, the best plan is to never let SnT resolve at all ;)
Fundamentally that's the problem isn't it? Let's say before the match starts, your friend tells you this opponent of yours is running Grixis, but don't know it's Grixis Delver or Grixis Control. You cannot tell based on the lands in turn 1 and turn 2. He could just have a reactive hand, no turn 1 Delver. Then what?
These Grixis decks love to play "Free" spells. That's true before or after YP hits play. Say YP is already in play and your Canonist gets into play after. Now if Grixis player tries to go after Canonist via Bolt or what not in the next turn(s), you can freely kill YP for sure. In short, Canonist is useful in most stages of the game in this MU, and the card provides help in several other MU as well.
If they have Emrakul on the field, chances are your Terminus isn't resolving. FWIW, I have Terminused an Emrakul but only G1. 2 and 3 your objective is to prevent SnT from resolving, or in the event that it does, play your opponent in such a way that you are sure they cannot have Emrakul in their hand, thus giving you the opportunity to kill Omniscience in response to a Wish or DTT. Terminus is a dead card 95% of the time. Since you bring in Canonist anyway, even if they're on UR Omnitell it gives you the chance to Entreat for a faster clock.
Also, UR Omnitell is so rare to see because it's worse than Mono U or Ub splash so don't worry about Pyro out of the board from them. Even if they're playing it, the plan stays the same: slow them down, Entreat for a clock, attempt to win.
yup that's why I go 6 between Rebs and Wear.
Also Meddling Mage, Vendilion Clique, Containment Priest, Canonist. They also help a lot and provide a clock.
That's why Japanise UR Omnitell player said that his best card in the deck was Volcanic Fallout in SB
So then why are you keeping Terminus? What else are you cutting for those 6 SB cards?
If he's wasting spells on killing hate pieces, that's good for you. The only permanents you care about sticking are Jace and 4/4 angel tokens. When you learn to play out spells to bait the counters from their hand, that's when you'll get better at this deck.
That's why Japanise UR Omnitell player said that his best card in the deck was Volcanic Fallout in SB
I play a creature heavy list and I like it.
Clique + any hatebear is 5 damages per turn.
A very good clock..
That's all I want to stick against Omnitell, if I drop a Snapmage is 7 dmg x turn...
I side out
1 Plains
1 Entreat
4 Swords
1 Jace
and in
1 Karakas
2 Red Elemental Blasts
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Wear/Tear
I like a lot creature based hate because they offer a win condition while they dodge Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm.
Lol Angels from Entreat when they play both Pierce and FStorm.. we really live in different planets
My reaction to these last few pages:
Anyway, I really like Anuraag Das' list that top8'ed SCG Open Worcester:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
3 Island
1 Plains
4 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Counterspell
1 Dig Through Time
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Monastery Mentor
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 1 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Wear/Tear
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Cavern of Souls
With 4 Snapcasters / 4 Ponders, it really pushes the consistency of the deck. The two maindeck REBs help a lot in the mirror and against Omnitell, and you can flashback them with Snapcaster in those matchups.
Going down to 20 lands is interesting, but you have 12 Cantrips (Brainstorm, Ponder, Top) to find lands, as well as Snapcaster Mage to rebuy those cantrips. Also, the mana curve seems lower than other Miracle lists (no Clique / Venser / Council's Judgement maindeck, and only one Counterspell and one Entreat).
The Cavern of Souls in the SB is interesting. You can name Wizard or Human, depending on what you brought in. It's also a land you can bring in against tempo decks with mana denial (which also helps play creatures through their soft counters).
I'm wondering why he chose to play 1 DTT / 3 Jace instead of 2 DTT / 2 Jace like we've seen in some lists. With all those 1 CC spells, you can delve a lot... But I guess having 4 Snapcaster Mage eating at your GY makes the second DTT less interesting.
You side out a 3 drop that can flip to a CB if they don't cast SnT through a Boseiju.
Now I'm convinced you're just bad at the deck.
Do you guys think maindeck Councils Judgement is still needed? Since TNN isnt anylonger a big part of the meta and its almost dead vs omnishow. Do you still play it or even in the sb?
thx
I like it because it's a 3-drop to flip to against Omnitell G1, and against DnT if you really need to you can get rid of a pesky permanent (usually exiling Batterskull after they've T2 -> T3 SFM it into play is strong).
I play 3 Cliques MD, if you play 2 we go even on 3cc count siding out 1 Entreat.
This said, I still don't see how Venser is useful against Stoneforge Mystic. Can you explain that as well?
Thanks
Venser gives you an answer to Sword of Fire and Ice. They flip it in, equip, and swing. You Venser, bounce sword, block and kill SFM. You can do the same bouncing the germ token if they swing both after putting in Batterskull.
About Anuraag Dias' list I posted above, the one thing I'm worried about is the lack of 3-drops for the CB curve.
With the maindeck configuration, we have:
- CMC 1: 18 cards
- CMC 2: 9 cards
- CMC 3: 1 card (!)
- CMC 4: 3 cards
- CMC 5: 4 cards
- CMC 6: 4 cards
- CMC 8: 1 card
With this configuration, we can easily counter 1 and 2 CMC spells, but it will be hard to find a 3-drop for Liliana, TNN, Show & Tell... I guess the 2 maindeck REBs help a little against TNN and Show&Tell, and the 4 Snapcaster Mages can threaten Liliana... But I still dislike having only one 3-drop.
First of all, isn't Anuraag Das and AnziD on this forum the same person?
Second, I'm willing to speculate, that list from Das will be very similar to what Shoeneggar will run in GP Lille 2015.
That list basically says I want to cantrip as much as possible like Omni-tell. Instead of casting Show and Tell to put my combo pieces into play, I put CB-T into play.
Thank you both for clarifying.
Then Cunning Wish - > Firemind's Foresight for Cunning Wish, Impulse/Twincast/Trickbind, and Brainstorm and -> either cast Trickbind, or Cunning Wish for Trickbind. How to handle this scenario?
---
Carpe Diem
Probe?
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Carpe Diem
18 player Legacy tournament report! I don't remember a lot but I'll do my best.
$10 entry, 4 rounds of swiss, cut to Top 8.
My list:
1 Arid Mesa
4 Brainstorm
1 Council's Judgment
4 Counterbalance
1 Counterspell
1 Dig Through Time
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Flooded Strand
4 Force of Will
4 Island
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Karakas
2 Plains
3 Ponder
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Spell Pierce
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
Sideboard:
1 Blood Moon
1 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Flusterstorm
1 Moat
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Rest in Peace
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Wear / Tear
Round 1: ANT
Opponent opened with Git Probe into Usea, I quickly narrowed it down to either Ub Omnitell or Storm, he sat sculpting his hand for a few turns before finally going off (G1 took like 20 minutes). The only countermagic I had left was a Spell Pierce for his PiF but he was playing Rain of Filth and was able to pay the
Sideboard strategy:
-3 Terminus
-1 Council's Judgment
-1 Jace
-1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 RiP
+2 REB
Game 2 my opponent plays Young Pyro and Bitterblossom, but was unable to assemble the combo. His own Bitterblossom eventually kills him as I am able to Ambush Viper in a Snap. He goes to 1 and I'm at 8 and he has 3 Rogues, 1 with summoning sickness. He says, "Let's got to G3."
G3 my opening hand is savage: Fow, Flusterstorm, CB, Top, Top, Island, Fetch. I draw into another FoW. He is unable to combo off because he wanted to dig for more protection and he couldn't find it. We draw.
Round MVP: Snapcaster. He saved my ass G2 by flashing back a StP for my opponent's YP, then eating his first Faerie token (opponent had to block—he was at like 5 at that point).
Round 1 result: 1-1-1 // 0-0-1
Round 2: TES
I admit, I should have identified this much earlier on as soon as my opponent played Chrome Mox. However, I had not seen TES for a while and put him on some awkward Storm build. Game 1 took about 15 minutes as my opponent durdled to get storm count to like 20 before finally casting Tendrils.
Sideboard strategy:
-3 Terminus
-1 Council's Judgment
-1 Jace
-1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 REB
+1 Blood Moon
Still fear the Xantid Swarm, especially from TES, so I keep in StP. Games 2 starts with me turn 1 Top and eventually finding a Canonist and then Jace. He cannot get rid of Canonist before he has taken too much from the bear, and concedes while Jace is at 11. Game 3 I land a turn 2 Canonist into a turn 3 Top + Counterbalance. He goes desperation mode at the end of one of my turns, casting Ad Nauseum at 14 and going to 3, finding a single Abrupt Decay in the process (while also getting all of his Petals and LEDs and effectively having the win if not for the Canonist and CB). He AD's Canonist but is still dead to CB. I land a Jace and start Fatesealing him to prevent him from finding the next AD. He concedes when Jace is at 13.
Round MVP: Ethersworn Canonist. 'nuff said.
Round 2 result: 2-1 // 1-0-1
Round 3: Mono U Omnitell
G1 is quick, he puts turn 2 Boseiju into T3 SnT -> Omniscience -> Emrakul
Sideboard strategy:
-3 Terminus
-3 StP
-1 Jace
-1 Supreme Verdict
-1 Counterbalance
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 V Clique
+1 Venser, Shaper Savant
+2 REB
+1 Wear // Tear
My G2 opener is pretty gas: V Clique, W//T, Counterspell, 4 lands (1 Karakas). I draw like 3 fetches in a row, he's able to Cunning Wish for a F-storm (I still had Counterspell), I then spend the Counterspell on a Preordain. 2 turns later (and I've drawn a single Brainstorm) he SnT Omniscience, I put in Clique, I take F-storm, I attempt to blow up Omniscience with W//T, he results a Bstorm, into a Bstorm into a DTT into a Cunning Wish into F-storm. GG.
Round MVP: It would have been V Clique, but damn those free cantrips. I honestly don't know how I feel about DTT being legal in this format where one can SnT a play-things-for-free card.
Round 3 result: 0-2 // 1-1-1
Round 4: Mentor Miracles
Round 4 we both know the other is on Miracles because we sat next to each other round 1. I go second, I open CB and Spell Pierce, hold up blue mana, he tries to jam CB turn 2 (he did not make a T1 play), I spell Pierce. I drop CB turn 2, and the next 30 minutes are us going back and forth with him trying to resolve threats and I just keep flipping stuff with CB, he bounces it on his turn 4 with a Venser, I play it back down my turn 4, but not before I Terminus the Venser away. Eventually I get a Top down, and a Jace. He REBs the Jace at one point (probably), he also tries to land a Mentor somewhere in there, I Counterspell it; basically, the mirror went as you'd expect. I get another Jace up to 11 and he concedes.
Sideboard strategy:
-2 Terminus
-1 StP
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Plains
+2 REB
+1 Pyroclasm
+1 W//T
+1 Moat
I bring in the Pyroclasm because I know he has x/2s, and is most definitely playing Clique. Moat also seems strong here. G2 he leads off with a Top that resolves, in response I play my own. He tries to jam T2 CB, I FoW pitching Jace. He tries to jam a T3 CB, I have Counterspell in hand. I land my own CB on turn 4, and the game goes pretty much the same as G1. At one point he has a Meddling Mage (through a Cavern of Souls no less) on the field that I kill with a Pyroclasm the next turn, allowing me to keep plus'ing my Jace. I think he conceded to 2 Angel tokens. I actually didn't bring in Clique here, I'm not sure why, but there was a reason. I think because he relied less on Miracles and more on creature beats, so I didn't expect to need to Clique away Miracles all that much. Plus, I could care less if he kept in Terminus/drew it.
Round MVP: Counterbalance. This is the card that determines who wins the mirror. Resolve this, and keep your opponent from resolving theirs, and you're almost guaranteed to win.
Round 4 result: 2-0 // 2-1-1
6 and better make Top 8, so I'm in!
Quarterfinals: Miracles
Hoh boy, here we go again. G1 I dominate the board, he tries to FoW one of my plays after I revealed a FoW on top with CB, so I flip it again. This misplay sets him back so far, but I still have to fight to establish board dominance. I have Jace on the field but he countered an Entreat for 3, then he REBs the Jace at 11 and I didn't have a Top to get it. I eventually get another Jace down and he cannot answer it. This time, since I see no creatures from him so my board strategy is a bit different.
Sideboard strategy:
-3 Terminus
-1 StP
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Supreme Verdict
-1 Plains
+2 REB
+2 V Clique
+1 W//T
+2 Flusterstorm
G2 is back and forth, I open the god hand: CB, Top, Island, Fetch, Fetch, some other cards. I get to stick a T1 Top, as well as the follow up CB. At one point he has a Jace at 7, then flips an Entreat that I Clique away. He follows up with a Keranos(!) that I end up Council's Judgmenting away the very next turn (my topdecks were amazing). I get to pressure his Jace with V Clique, and he's forced to start Brainstorming. He flashes in his own Clique that resolves through my CB and trades with my Clique (I could have avoided this if I tapped my mana correctly—I had StP in hand, but I was left with 2 Volcs untapped. Bad me.) Because I lost Clique, I'm forced to keep pressuring with Jace. I eventually find an Entreat and have 3 Angels on the field. He spins Top, the concedes.
Round MVP: Counterbalance. This is the card that determines who wins the mirror. Resolve this, and keep your opponent from resolving theirs, and you're almost guaranteed to win.
Quarterfinal result: 2-0
Top 4 splits prizes for $30 store credit (it was 12AM when my game finished—TO told us we were the last ones by like 30-45 minutes. Whoops.) All in all, a great showing. I wish I could have had a better G2 against Mono U Omnitell but it happens (drawing 3 lands in a row is never fun).
This was a great result for me as I felt very comfortable playing my deck, only going to time in round 1, though every other game took pretty much the entirety of the allotted time (which is expected). I'm getting better at the deck, and I feel myself getting better (set up a couple of "blind" flips to CB using Ponder and Brainstorm). But man, that quarterfinal match was a huge grind as my opponent kept casting out after out after out. But I was able to keep him from controlling the game (aside from the time he had a Jace up to 9, but even then I had a Clique in hand from my opener so I wasn't really sweating.
Last edited by CutthroatCasual; 06-16-2015 at 08:01 PM.
Please do. I'm intrigued at using Stoneforge Mystic in Miracles as I think it might help the deck in some areas, especially the Grixis Control MU, probably the worst match up among the Tier 1 decks. I just haven't put much testing into it and not sure I will have much time going forward to do much testing in general.
In regards to Legacy:
or they will DTT into Cunning Wish or more cantrips..
Venser is great against Emrakul played with SNT. at that point it is as good as Karakas
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