View Poll Results: Most bannable card in Legacy? (not that they will touch it)

Voters
192. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brainstorm

    16 8.33%
  • Force of Will

    4 2.08%
  • Lion's Eye Diamond

    35 18.23%
  • Counterbalance

    34 17.71%
  • Sensei's Divining Top

    103 53.65%
  • Tarmogoyf

    46 23.96%
  • Phyrexian Dreadnaught

    2 1.04%
  • Goblin Lackey

    4 2.08%
  • Standstill

    6 3.13%
  • Natural Order

    8 4.17%
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Thread: All B/R update speculation.

  1. #12901
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Have to admit, as far off into the wilderness we apears to have landed right now, this is a dam sight more entertaining then normal.

    Also you don't need Brainstorm Lands, you need Gifts Ungiven Lands, any fool knows that.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  2. #12902

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    I always wondered why Merfolk didn't run a bunch of fetches and Brainstorm. Seemed like a no-brainer before MD CotV became a thing.
    I'm not a Merfolk player, but from my understanding it is the opportunity cost of Brainstorm. Yes, that opportunity cost isn't very big, but it does exist, and it's far more relevant in Merfolk than other decks. The problem is that Merfolk is an aggro deck with a high amount of redundancy, so card filtering is much less important; remember that Brainstorm isn't a card that actually does something (barring interactions like Delver, Miracles, or filling up of the graveyard, none of which are true in Merfolk), but is a card that tries to get you something that does something. In something like RUG Delver or Storm or Miracles, you tend to want specific cards, which Brainstorm helps you find, but there's far less of a distinction between the cards in Merfolk, making it less impressive. And let's not forget that you do have to spend mana casting Brainstorm. Sure, one mana isn't much, but that's the difference between curving out perfectly with your threats and not doing so. Mana spent on Brainstorm is mana not spent casting threats or activating Mutavaults to attack with. Speaking of Mutavaults, between that, Cavern of Souls, and Wasteland, there's only 11-12 lands in the deck that can actually cast Brainstorm. Which isn't a small number, but it's rather low by Legacy standards, giving the card an additional chance of doing nothing.

    In a deck like Merfolk, card advantage is better achieved through Silvergill Adept than Brainstorm, as Silvergill Adept works in tandem with the rest of the deck, whereas Brainstorm really... doesn't.

  3. #12903
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrsthethird View Post
    But Brainstorm makes finding those red cards so much easier!

    A more complete list:

    Brainstorm Nic Fit (I've played it)
    Brainstorm Deadguy Ale (Esperanto stoneblade)
    Brainstorm Junk (I think phazonmutant played it)
    Brainstorm Jund (wwaterfalls?)
    Brainstorm Spanish Inquisition
    Brainstorm Lands (seems fine here)
    Brainstorm Dredge (I've seen it played against me at an Scg)
    Brainstorm Enchantress
    Brainstorm Sylvan Plug
    Brainstorm Oops All Spells
    Brainstorm Maverick (Bant)
    Brainstorm Pox
    Brainstorm Manaless Dredge
    Brainstorm Rock (see Junk)
    Brainstorm Cure
    Brainstorm Quinn
    Brainstorm Parfait
    Brainstorm Gate (sure UB Delver?)
    Brainstorm Eggs
    Brainstorm Zoo (BURG Zoo is a thing)
    Brainstorm Stax
    Brainstorm Burn (see treasure cruise format)
    Brainstorm Eva Green (BUG Delver essentially)7
    Brainstorm Daretti
    Brainstorm Zombardment
    Brainstorm Angel Stompy
    Fixed
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
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    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  4. #12904
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    Fixed
    I mean, if we're stretching here, Brainstorm Quinn/Parfait could just be Miracles, and Brainstorm Cure is pretty much infect. I'm sure we could fit it into basically any non-chalice deck without too much effort though.

    EDIT: That chart is ridiculous. 80% usage is a joke.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

  5. #12905

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I think we can all agree that despite its penetration, brainstorm is a FUN card that everyone loves to play and it should stay in the format!
    Quote Originally Posted by SaberTooth View Post
    if brainstorm is banned, legacy will lost his heart

  6. #12906
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Star|Scream View Post
    I think we can all agree that despite its penetration, brainstorm is a FUN card that everyone loves to play and it should stay in the format!
    Nope.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

  7. #12907
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Star|Scream View Post
    I think we can all agree that despite its penetration, brainstorm is a FUN card that everyone loves to play and it should stay in the format!
    You can say that about Survival as well. You can add SnT, (I know some people like it) DTT or any other such card. You know, as a Shops player there is a sadistic joy in going Chalice for 1, Chalice for 0 on my first turn, but that doesn't change that the card should be restricted. I like it, but it really is not about what I like, it is about what is best for the formats overall health.

    In this case arguing something is "Fun" is like arguing that beating your wife is fun so it should be legal. But its likely not the best way to have a healthy family relationship and also not going to pass muster in any court near where I live. Might get me dinner on time though... (Dear if you read this, do not kill me please.)
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  8. #12908

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Star|Scream View Post
    I think we can all agree that despite its penetration, brainstorm is a FUN card that everyone loves to play and it should stay in the format!
    I cannot tell. Is this supposed to be sarcasm?

  9. #12909

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    I cannot tell. Is this supposed to be sarcasm?
    It's you, mismanaging your ignore list.

  10. #12910

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    I would like to point out that Ancestral Recall only got 8/16 of Vintage Champs.

  11. #12911

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You can say that about Survival as well. You can add SnT, (I know some people like it) DTT or any other such card. You know, as a Shops player there is a sadistic joy in going Chalice for 1, Chalice for 0 on my first turn, but that doesn't change that the card should be restricted. I like it, but it really is not about what I like, it is about what is best for the formats overall health.

    In this case arguing something is "Fun" is like arguing that beating your wife is fun so it should be legal. But its likely not the best way to have a healthy family relationship and also not going to pass muster in any court near where I live. Might get me dinner on time though... (Dear if you read this, do not kill me please.)
    Did you really just compare brainstorm to domestic violence?
    Quote Originally Posted by SaberTooth View Post
    if brainstorm is banned, legacy will lost his heart

  12. #12912
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Star|Scream View Post
    Did you really just compare brainstorm to domestic violence?
    If we could get rid of both now that would be great. Well, except maybe for vintage, once is ok. For old times' sake, where everything is legal.

  13. #12913
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Star|Scream View Post
    Did you really just compare brainstorm to domestic violence?
    No, just that "Fun" is a really thin line to take.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  14. #12914
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You can say that about Survival as well.
    No, it's not. Survival is absolutely unfun to play against. If it resolves, you basically go "well, this game's probably over." And even if it isn't, watching your opponent durdle with his deck every turn is like a visit to the DMV.

    Brainstorm is fun to play with, and not any more unfun to play against than any other card. I think that's a significant difference between the two cards.

  15. #12915
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Yes, in an attempt to show "Fun" is a really thin line to take.
    Fixed that for you.

  16. #12916

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    No, just that "Fun" is a really thin line to take.
    I don't think that anyone is arguing that domestic violence is fun--ever. So it was quite an insensitive hyperbole. However, MANY people have argued that playing brainstorm is fun, and I feel like you should respect the fact that your opinion isn't the ONLY one before making such a crude joke.
    Quote Originally Posted by SaberTooth View Post
    if brainstorm is banned, legacy will lost his heart

  17. #12917
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilla View Post
    No, it's not. Survival is absolutely unfun to play against. If it resolves, you basically go "well, this game's probably over." And even if it isn't, watching your opponent durdle with his deck every turn is like a visit to the DMV.

    Brainstorm is fun to play with, and not any more unfun to play against than any other card. I think that's a significant difference between the two cards.
    And what of the people who think playing Survival is fun? If that's the line in the sand now, what about their wishes? If one subjective claim is good for one card, why is it not good for all?
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  18. #12918

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilla View Post
    No, it's not. Survival is absolutely unfun to play against. If it resolves, you basically go "well, this game's probably over." And even if it isn't, watching your opponent durdle with his deck every turn is like a visit to the DMV.

    Brainstorm is fun to play with, and not any more unfun to play against than any other card. I think that's a significant difference between the two cards.
    It's pretty unfun to not be playing Brainstorm and watching your opponents keep of Land, Land, Land, Land, Glistner Elf, Brainstorm, Daze turn into a turn 3 kill. While you mulligan to 6 and get stuck with what you drew. Makes you wonder why any deck not playing Chalice on 1 would ever not play Brainstorm.

    Survival is no more or less "fun" than watching a person draw 14 cards with Griselderp, resolve a 5 minute Ad Nauseum or jerk off with his Sensei Top. Survival resolving is hardly game over in a world of Abrupt Decay, Terminus, Show and Tell and Griselbrand. You do remember you have to cast the creatures you tutor up? <shudders in fear of Vengevines in a format with Show and Tell Omniscience>

  19. #12919

    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Necro is really fun actually. Don't think it would 32/32 a GP if it were unbanned but it might come close.

  20. #12920
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    Re: All B/R update speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Necro is really fun actually. Don't think it would 32/32 a GP if it were unbanned but it might come close.
    Can confirm, I definitely enjoy Necro more than Brainstorm (or most other cards, for that matter). Survival I never really got to play with (just against, a little bit) so I can't really judge that one.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

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