All B/R update speculation.

[jrsthethird]

- Terminus (W remove three vengevines)

This doesn't help. They can just be searched up again next turn. All the Survival player needs is a creature in hand.

Meanwhile, since Vengevine was printed, the following cards that are good AGAINST survival or in deck that are NOT survival were printed:
- Bojuka Bog (land deck in general)

...

This was printed 4 months before Vengevine.

[Fox]

Have you ever cast Thoughtseize or Duress against a brainstorm combo player? It very often ends up with them hiding the combo pieces on top and your discard amounting to shit

Discard in Legacy is probably the only way your non-brainstorm [non-blue?] deck will ever survive charbelcher-speed combos - at no point should that same tool be the 'infallible' answer to other [brainstorm] decks that were secondarily protecting you from getting turn-1'd (discouraging such charbelchery decks with disruption before the event fired).

In legacy it is important to remember that your worst matchups are probably your best friends, and while playing one another [directly] doesn't result in a game of 'real' magic, you're both better off by shunting more favorable matchups in each others' direction in the grand scheme of things.

On a closing note, I'd be pretty careful about lamenting how someone with a proactive combo deck was able to survive discard - there are few things less fun to play against in legacy than 4 swords/6-8 discard/4 FoW/2 Pierce decks [2-4 pikulas/2-4 red blasts in the board]. Evaluate just how much you enjoy playing legacy against esper chasecards over and over; because it likely just does discard better with its do-nothing JTMS followups.

[guillemnicolau]

non-brainstorm [non-blue?]

Merfolks and Sea Stompy say Hi

[Echelon]

On a closing note, I'd be pretty careful about lamenting how someone with a proactive combo deck was able to survive discard - there are few things less fun to play against in legacy than 4 swords/6-8 discard/4 FoW/2 Pierce decks [2-4 pikulas/2-4 red blasts in the board]. Evaluate just how much you enjoy playing legacy against esper chasecards over and over; because it likely just does discard better with its do-nothing JTMS followups.

I once faced that MU 3 rounds in a row. Even though I won the first two rounds, it got really old really fast.

[Purgatory]

Anyone know what time the announcement will drop?

[Varal]

Anyone know what time the announcement will drop?

3 pm GMT if I remember well.

[Dice_Box]

1100 est. It's a while away yet.

[Finn]

Discard is fine out of control and midrange against aggro and aggro-control; it lets you steer their hand in the direction you want or proactively remove threats or disruption that you don't want to or can't react to. As for the combo cases that you consider the only ones that matter, Brainstorm is only helpful when the combo player's hand pre-Brainstorm contains exactly one non-redundant combo piece AND has and no library manipulation spells other than the Brainstorm. So we're taking about a small subset of combo hands where Brainstorm is functioning as substantive protection - they hide exactly one card that they need to go off and expose only redundant combo pieces, then untap, draw the hidden piece, and go off. Even if they hide two non-redundant combo pieces and expose only chaff, you've bought yourself at least one draw step which is all you can realistically ask for against combo from any sort of non-permanent disruption.

Uhh, really?
Discard is exactly the wrong solution to an opponent whose permants are hurting you. That is why it is weak against decks with the word "aggro" in them. That is a very basic concept. Ask any journeyman tournament player.

Brainstorm is extraordinarily strong for combo players because you were going to cast it at your opponent's end of turn anyway. At these critical early turns you get to see what the opponent discards from your hand which makes your decision on what to shuffle away easier. This is all happening AFTER you hide your favorite cards on top of your deck.

I enter these conversations blithely assuming that other people around here are worth discussing this stuff with. But when I read ignorant posts like this I gain insight into why there is such debate about Brainstorm.

I think I'm getting old and crochety

EDIT: I actually do not think you are completely ignorant. I think you probably have not been on both sides of this scenario or something. Not sure there. Whatever the case, there really is no debate here. Brainstorm is at its best outwitting sorcery speed discard.

[Mr Miagi]

omg omg, 1 hour 15 minutes remaining till..... yet another "no changes" disapointment

[Zulabnar]

omg omg, 1 hour 15 minutes remaining till..... yet another "no changes" disapointment

lol

[guillemnicolau]

less than 1 hour... today I sent my foil DTT's to get signed, I hope I'll be able to play them at least once... (out of vintage I mean)

[CabalTherapy]

less than 1 hour...

Kappa

[Dice_Box]

less than 1 hour... today I sent my foil DTT's to get signed, I hope I'll be able to play them at least once... (out of vintage I mean)

They are legal in Standard... (Sorry, had to.)

[H]

I own 4 foil Digs and I'm not at all averse to seeing it go.

Everyone got their Earthcrafts stockpiled yet?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Dig Through Time banned.
Black Vise unbanned.

Source.

[Nielsie]

Well hello Black Vise!

[CabalTherapy]

dig through time banned
black vise unbanned

yes!

[H]

Holy shit.

Wow.

EDIT: Glad I bought 4 Beta Black Vise,

[rufus]

...
Everyone got their Earthcrafts stockpiled yet?

IMO that's not the safest available unban: it could actually do work in Elves! or some other swarming deck when there are other less dangerous cards. I wouldn't mind seeing DTT go though.

[Zombie]

So, Vise Delver anyone? Fun Times, right?

Good riddance DTT.