[Deck] Imperial Painter

[Ace/Homebrew]

people don't know how to play against him and you get so many free wine off the card I couldn't imagine running less

FWIW, I run two copies of Welder and have been happy with that number.

Sounds like you'd get more free wine if you ran a 3rd copy.

[wolfstorm]

That was my take too. I'm not doubting the interactions he has with the deck, all of which are great. I too have won a few games off of welding in a Painter Servant. I also think the SDT "drawing cards trick" is one of the stronger things Welder adds to the deck. I was just wondering why there is such a differing opinion about how good Welder is... In R/W welder is basically a 3 of, however in Mono-R builds welder apparently a much less valuable card since most lists have it as a one of... considering that Mono-R has less tutor effects to increase redundency on Grindstone this seems odd.

I believe it's because RW runs more lotus petal's which turns on welder quite quickly, while mono red usually runs a full set of simian.

[Uroborian]

Also I think R/W incurs more card disadvantage and welder can usually get that advantage back. Mono R isn't the same and there the welder is a casual misers copy.

[GundamGuy]

I believe it's because RW runs more lotus petal's which turns on welder quite quickly, while mono red usually runs a full set of simian.

This is a good point. RW also tends to run a Ethersworn main (or used to) so that ups the artifact count some.

[lilevo]

Using a stock shortcake list what's the general sideboard plan vs miracles?

[nonbasicland]

I'll be playing Shortcake (71/75 of the Kap'ns list) at GP Seattle and wanted to reach out for advice in the Goblins match up. Not the most common match up, but I can't figure it out. Any tips?

[jandax]

Don't name blue, get bridge out, kill them faster than they kill you.

Ideal hands are something that interacts with their boad turn one and on. Moons aren't bad. You can't one for one them, play just like elves match up and play the control in the matchup. And try and kill them before they kill you.

[nonbasicland]

Thanks! That makes a lot of sense. Very helpful!

[Stevestamopz]

Just kill moderately quickly and you're fine. I believe the matchup is pretty in Gobs favour (biased opinion) but the deck is so horrid that you're very unlikely to run into it.

[NathanS2k]

I would be more worried about burn than goblins. Anyone else worried about burn with the current shortcake sb? I'm playing 1 cop: red in the sb.

[Russki]

I would be more worried about burn than goblins. Anyone else worried about burn with the current shortcake sb? I'm playing 1 cop: red in the sb.

There's only so much you can do for the matchup. It's bad no matter what way you look at it really. I've tried everything from warmth to leyline of sanctity and settled on circle of protection red. Copr I feel is the best tool for them as there are still very few burn decks running destructive revelry. Almost all still run smash to smithereens.

[Moomba]

I will always run 1 Sphere of Law in my sb, if you resolve that thing turn 2 to 3 they're gonna have a hard time winning.

[sroncor1]

About Welder, it is basically the single most powerful card in the deck. You need to have certain deck constraints to take advantage of it but in a vacuum the card is the single strongest. That being said the number in a deck is variable. Depending on the number, the deck changes drastically in composition. Jack as continued to do well with 3 and ups teh artifacts in his deck to make good use of him. Every deck should have at least one if for no other reason than we use artifacts to win, and it turns Grindstone on as a psuedo draw spell. That is the basic reasons to have the card. But its applications are incredible to adding reach, flexibility and card advantage to the deck. It helps to minimize some of the strongest cards(Counterbalance, Terminus, and counterspells) in the format. Most players will immediately waste a removal spell on him, as they should, which saves your objectively more important creatures from said spell. To do over all his uses would be exhaustive and a waste of time because we would all miss so many of them. Thinking of him vs Spellskite is the complete wrong way to asses the card to be honest. Spellskite excels against burn and abrupt decay and some other fringe strategies that you should not be worried about. The key of that statement is that you should not worry about burn. It is a shitty deck that occasionally pops up. I will always say just play the odds that you don't see it at the top tables rather than devoting valuable deck space to a shitty deck. It is more important to sure up Miracles, BUG, RUG, and Show and Tell variants than ever worring about Burn. When you look at that list Goblin Welder is always better than Spellskite. And it isn't even close. Now the number in the deck is more difficult, although I will say mono red should probably start at 3 and go from there, whcih brings me to my next point about the difference between monored and shortcake.

Monored has the possibility of increase in consistency in the sense that its mana base is slightly more solid in a wasteland infested land. Its minimal but real. However the mana consistency is minimal. It is slower and less consistent with the combo and draws due to losing the tutor effect. This is a significant difference. The ability to have an instant speed tutor both increases your speed and consistency which is important to consider when choosing the deck construction. But the ability to have the tutor effect, while being card disadvantage is acceptable, due to the ability to better fight hate and other strategies. This goes without saying that fighting graveyard strategies with 6-7 dedicated cards in the 75 seems like a losing proposition once small sample size is removed. Without this consistency, I think the monored decks need the ability of the Welder more in general to give them the reach they otherwise dont have. Without taking at length about the advantage of white, monored needs to work hard to overcome the short comings of not being able to play game changes like Canonist and RiP.

I don't play much paper magic anymore that doesn't include power, but teh basic principles of the deck have not changed in the past 5 years with the deck. That is the important thing to remember. The cantrip cartel is real though and stronger now than it was before. It is because of that you need to increase consistency as their draws continue to be more and more consistent. Keep this in mind along with Blood Moon gaining value and the right number in the 75 is probably 6 or more at this time. And before anyone says anything, no it is perfectly fine running 4-5 white cards in a deck with 6 plus moon effects. If the moon is winning the dead cards in hand mean nothing.

Seth

[Nuke is Good]

Reanimator hasn't been netting me results lately, keep going 2-2 at the local tournaments. I saw that I still have painter ready so next week I'm going to use it at the 4 rounder. Currently my list looks like:


Creatures (15)
2 Goblin Welder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Painter's Servant
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
Spells (26)
3 Lotus Petal
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Grindstone
4 Pyroblast
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Blood Moon
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Lands (19)
1 Great Furnace
1 Plains
2 Plateau
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
Sideboard (15)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pyroclasm
1 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Rest in Peace
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Koth of the Hammer
2 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Assemble the Legion

CoP Red I tried using for some reason it doesn't get the job done against burn, leyline does double duty against all the discard showing up as well. This list was made before Mentor was big, I was thinking instead of Thorn I'd switch to a Trinisphere. I think Imperial Painter is the strongest of the Blood Moon decks, though I haven't played Mono-R sneak.

[drude1]

Spellskite excels against burn and abrupt decay and some other fringe strategies that you should not be worried about. The key of that statement is that you should not worry about burn. It is a shitty deck that occasionally pops up. I will always say just play the odds that you don't see it at the top tables rather than devoting valuable deck space to a shitty deck. It is more important to sure up Miracles, BUG, RUG, and Show and Tell variants than ever worring about Burn. When you look at that list Goblin Welder is always better than Spellskite. And it isn't even close.

Again, I would agree that welder is an important card in the deck as well. And in general, you can't argue any of the reasons to play welder. Having said that. I would disagree that welder is a better card than spellskite in MUs like RUG and BUG. I would actually argue that, of all the decks you listed, the only deck where welder has a clear advantage is show and tell. And even there welder's benefit is negligible. Welder's biggest advantage is that it provides redundancy against counter magic. However, when your pieces are on the board, I would much rather have spellskite protect my combo in the RUG strategy because he takes 2 removal spells to get rid of, turns on the second you play him, and blocks mongoose all day. He also absorbs jitte counters that kill welder immediately. He redirects pump spells in the infect MU that is huge. He eats bolts and survives in any red MU. He can redirect disenchant effects to protect your moons. He saves your non-artifact creatures. He protects your permanents against bounce (such as in the STORM MU and Jace).
Again, welder is also very good. But spellskite is not nearly as narrow as you are suggesting. After all, given the fact that a person playing with one of the best results in history with this deck thinks spellskite is good enough to play in his main should suggest that maybe it's an okay card.



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[GundamGuy]

CoP Red I tried using for some reason it doesn't get the job done against burn, leyline does double duty against all the discard showing up as well.

I find it hard to beleive that CoP Red couldn't get the job done against burn, sure you need mana, but you should be good slow rolling your plays and drawing for a solid number of turns.

I feel like Leyline is actually pretty bad against both Burn and Discard, because it cost 4 mana. It's way to late to the party against discard decks, unless it's in your opening hand... same on burn. It's great if you've got it in your opening hand, but the 2-4th copies are pretty bad and dilute the deck. It's also a lot of Sideboard slots.

You could just run Spirtual Focus, which should give discard decks a hard time... couple this with CoP:Red and instead of taking 4 sideboard slots your taking 2...

[NathanS2k]

Going to Seattle. My SB looks like this:

1x Duergar hedge-mage
1x Ethersworn canonist
1x Spellskite
1x Koth of the Hammer
1x Enlightened tutor
1x Cop: red
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Trinisphere
1x Thorn of amethyst
1x Rest in Peace
1x Tormod's crypt
4x Firebolt

Everything as a one-of, except for the firebolts. Any comments or suggestions are welcomed.

[GundamGuy]

Going to Seattle. My SB looks like this:

1x Duergar hedge-mage
1x Ethersworn canonist
1x Spellskite
1x Koth of the Hammer
1x Enlightened tutor
1x Cop: red
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Trinisphere
1x Thorn of amethyst
1x Rest in Peace
1x Tormod's crypt
4x Firebolt

Everything as a one-of, except for the firebolts. Any comments or suggestions are welcomed.

Comments, take them or leave them.

You can likely cut a Firebolt.
You should consider if Ethersworn Cannonist is as strong as it was during Omnishow times. Should we be on Containment Priest now that Sneak and Show is bigger? (Also has game agaisnt GSZ decks)
Spellskite in the board? I don't know...
Miracles are still pretty good, do you want Assemble the Legion?

I know we hate losing to burn, but CoP:Red is a card that we should likely live without, instead spending a Sideboard slot on another matchup.

[jandax]

I've liked firebolt in the past but nowadays I reconsider it because it is a 4RR two for one. In matchups where we need to burn a creature down, sweepers are much better than Firebolt. I'm not hating on the card, you'd do just fine with it. But consider Ratchet Bomb, Engineered Explosives, Pyroclasm, Pyrokinesis, Slice and Dice, Volcanic Fallout (same camp as SLice and dice, uncounterable sweeper) Sudden Demise. We can't one for one or two for one and expect to come out on top. Our removal has too reset the board in our favor, breaking even isn't enough most of the time. Just something to consider before making your choice.

[NathanS2k]

Forgot to mention that my MD is the same as Jack's list.

Thanks for your feedback. With ethersworn canonist, I think it's mainly against storm decks now along with trinisphere and thorn. Figured my 3 bridges in my 75 and 7 red blast effects, 1 revoker be good enough for Sneak and Show. Spellskite, good against burn, infect, maybe certain types of delver variance? I agree with cop: red, it's the most iffy card from my sb but I'm just going with my gut. If I take that out, I was thinking adding another Koth. Is Assemble the Legion more easily for miracles deck to answer? Since I figured they would naturally bring in wear//tear against us.