I've been playing a Bridge/Chalice/Moon version on MTGO and at my LGS weekly event and I've been enjoying it. I used to run Pia and Kiran, Rabblemaster, and a few other creatures and equipment, but then shifted to a more spell-based version. I like what you have above as it's somewhere between the two.Originally Posted by hofzge
I play a split of Chandra and Koth because I run 4 Fiery Confluence and ultimating Chandra for Confluence is really a wonderful feeling. That said, running confluence in your main may not be bad with so many decks that run important artifacts. I have a lot of D&T at my store and triple shatter for 2RR (or even 3RR with Thalia) is amazing.
The sideboard looks similar to mine, though if you're not dealing with a lot of creatures, Pyrokinesis may not be necessary.
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So I ran the list Koby posted on the last page (substituting a couple cards) at my local weekly event last night. Didn't go too well.
Round 1 vs Junk Maverick
Game 1 I basically only drew Rabblemasters, which don't fare too well against an active Mom and Thalia. Large Knights sealed the deal. Game 2, I had a T1 Rabblemaster which ate a Swords to Plowshares and I was basically screwed. I learned the hard way that this deck can be very explosive, but it requires a lot of the cards in your hand. If the threat/disruption you power out on turn 1/2 is immediately answered, you end up so far behind.
0-2
Round 2 vs Esper Blade w/Thopter Foundry combo
I play against this guy every week, so I knew what he was on. I didn't think the matchup would be as lopsided as it turned out to be. Game 1 I land an early Trinisphere and ride Moggcatcher -> Rabblemaster to victory. Game 2 an early Magus locked him out as Moggcatcher -> Rabblemaster sealed it again. Pretty easy.
2-0
Round 3 vs Infect
This was rough. Game 1 my turn 2 Magus gets Dazed, and he kills me on turn 3 with Blighted Agent + Invigorate + Berserk. Can't do much about that. Game 2 I land a turn 1 Chalice which buys me quite a bit of time. On turn 2 I drop a Goblin Settler to hit his Trop and leave him on one land. Next turn I drop a Redcap to take care of his Blighted Agent, and things are looking pretty good. I hard cast a Spirit Guide to keep the beats going. I'm one turn from lethal but he activates an Inkmoth + Invigorate + Invigorate + Become Immense. :/ I had a feeling I should've held onto my Settler for when he drops an Inkmoth, but at the time I felt the tempo swing would be enough to warrant playing it.
0-2
Are my losses typical? Are these bad matchups? There was nothing I could do about Infect game 1, and blowing my Settler early may have cost me game 2, but nonetheless the lack of removal seemed rough. I also wasn't packing Goblin Sharpshooter which definitely could've helped.
This doesn't seem unreasonable but it does feel unlucky. Versus Infect, the best thing you can do is T1 Chalice T2 Moon, but you need to be wary of FoW and Daze. I tend to mulligan hands that don't have at least one lock piece and one threat or two lock pieces. If I don't know what they're on, I tend to prefer moon + threat. But yeah, you can get some bad draws. I went 0-3 last week and then 4-0 this week. That said, I played Death and Taxes twice last week and I couldn't hate flickerwisp more.
Yeah, there were a few D&T/Maverick style Mom decks last night. I didn't bring my Sulfur Elementals with me, but I'll likely be bringing a couple in the side next week. I did feel a little unlucky against Infect, but the Maverick matchup seemed very tough.
Maverick is tough! Don't try to outrace them. You'll lose that battle. You have to land a lock (Blood Moon is probably the best one) and attrition them out with Moggcatcher -> Siege-Gang -> Kiki (or Redcap -> Kiki)
Against Infect, you really want to mull to Blood Moon or Trinisphere. Chalice stops a lot of cards, but Blighted Agent and Inkmoth Nexus let them mostly play around Chalice. Trinisphere turns off all their 'free' pump spells. Don't imprint your Spirit Guides on Chrome Mox (on the draw) if you can help it because you can exile them to foil a Daze.
Also, consider only activating your Moggcatcher in response to an action your opponent takes or at the end of your opponent's turn. It is very tempting to fetch Settler at the first opportunity, but your toolbox gives you a lot of ways to respond to various situations. And you can always EOT fetch Rabblemaster, your turn fetch Kiki, copy rabblemaster, and swing for 12 out of nowhere.
Thanks! Yeah, my Maverick opponent seemed to ALWAYS have a StP for anything I played. I had Siege-Gang + 5 goblins which I could basically use to blow up his board, and he StP my SGC on his following turn and basically rendered my goblin tokens as chump blockers. Once he equipped SoFaI to a large Knight, it was basically over.
Really coming out of left field here, but would it be reasonable to try and add Fanatic of Mogis and some number of Splinter Twin/Kiki Jiki to the deck? I've been exploring it in modern (similar build minus the Sol lands) and it's a really powerful finisher often.
I imagine it's a bit clunky otherwise, but I've been trying to explore how to close out games in different ways.
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The key with any creature that we run should be its ability to win the game or do something impactful by itself. It will be your only threat in your hand on occasion and Fanatic of Mogis is piss poor by itself. Kiki-Jiki is one of the few cards that gets a pass in our deck because of the immense synergy it has with almost everything else we play. Fanatic of Mogis is also not a goblin, which is a big strike against it in the Moggcatcher lists. Splinter Twin has even less use in this deck because of how few creatures that we already run and the fact that we don't want to expose ourselves to two-for-ones any more than we already do.
Also Splinter Twin Jiki is no combo - Kiki cannot copy itself...
You would need Zealous Conscripts and that is also a bad card by itself...
Last edited by hofzge; 03-05-2016 at 03:39 PM.
Chalice on 1
I meant copy Fanatic, but the more I play this deck the more it's clear that each card should hold its own, as stated above.
I've been on a hot streak lately, beating Jeskai Stoneblade, UWR Delver, Grixis Delver, Elves, storm, reanimator, and Eldrazi Stompy. I also crushed 12 Post in back to back games of T1 Chalice T2 Blood Moon. The only close games were Stoneblade (which went to time and he conceded because he couldn't eliminate two bridges) and Elves. I'm taking the following (I think) to a win-a-box tomorrow:
"No Friends Red"
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain
4x Blood Moon
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Chrome Mox
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Fiery Confluence
4x Magma Jet
2x Sudden Shock
2x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Koth of the Hammer
Sideboard (15)
2x Boil
2x Dismember
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Null Rod
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Trinisphere
Null Rod obviously shuts off Chrome Mox, but I need it against D&T and other equipment-heavy decks.
Jaya hasn't been a great performer, and I'm tempted to run 1 less Mox, but overall things have seemed pretty good. I could run 1-2 Bonfire of the Damned though I'd love to find a way to fit 4 Rabblemaster back in.
Suggestions welcome.
What's our general gameplan/sideboard tech for UWR Stoneblade? I've gotten blown out pretty hard the last few times I've come up against it.
Which version of the deck are you playing? (Moggcatcher, Creatures + Swords, Planeswalker?)
With the Planeswalker version, G1 I try to hold my Magma Jet/Sudden Shock for Stoneforge Mystic to delay a Batterskull, land a chalice to prevent brainstorming/swordsing, and then leveraging Koth and Fiery Confluence to kill them. G2 I lean on Trinisphere and Null Rod to slow them down and prevent their equipment from activating. It's definitely a hard match without Bridge, and moon effects may not affect them much because of their basics (depending on the version). True Name is a beating, no matter what, so you have to hope to slow them down in the early turns and then lock them out.
If you're playing the creature version, I would hope for early Rabblemasters or Moggcatcher into Seige Gang and then hit them with little goblins.
I posted this before:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Blood Moon
3x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
4x Chrome Mox
4x City of Traitors
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Koth of the Hammer
3x Magma Jet
3x Magus of the Moon
10x Mountain
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Simian Spirit Guide
SB:
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Fiery Confluence
1x Magus of the Moon
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Pyrokinesis
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Trinisphere
I think you run a bit short on wincons, as I would not count the Fiery Confluences as wincons. The problem you will get with Fiery Confluence in any version with Rabblemaster is that it kills your own stuff -> thus Bonfire.
Jaya, as well as Pia and Kiran have the advantage of being wincons with bridge as well as removal in stead of the Fiery Confluences.
Chalice on 1
I've recently switched over to the Moggcatcher build and I'm just sort of inexperienced in general so it's been a bit vexing. Sometimes they'll just have removal for my critters, other times the equipment will hit the board and I won't be able to draw an answer and once Batterskull or Jitte are fully operational racing becomes very difficult. Am I just losing to variance or are there specific lines of play I should be aiming for when facing Stoneblade?
Yeah, after giving this a few more spins today, it's clear that I need to bring Rabblemaster back in, which probably means Confluence needs to move to the sideboard. I'm interested in your sideboard choices - especially Pyrokinesis and Rachet Bomb. I can see bomb as a good sweeper, but why Pyrokinesis when you're already running Bonfire? Free spell?
Yeah that's a bit stupid. Just play whatever you like. We have a very warped meta at my shop with 1 Dragons Stompy list (Dragons), 1 Imperial Painter, 1 Reanimator, 2 Lands -> The one person I am worried about is the painter that is quite immune to much of my interaction, but killing the painter and destroying some artifacts should help -> another Fiery Confluence or a Pithing Needle should do the trick.
Chalice on 1
Look for an early lock piece to shut down part or all of their deck. If that doesn't work, you're going to look to grind them out with Moggcatcher and Siege-Gangs.
For sideboarding, Scrappers are super important as they can take care of equipment and golems. You could bring Bridges in if you want, but I'm not sure if they're the right call. They would be useful though. Anarchy can be useful to take care of a couple of cards, but probably not the best choice. Pyrokinesis seems like a very good option in this matchup as it takes care of a lot of opposing threats.
Something to keep in mind is that since Moggcatcher is your biggest game against them, it should be the last threat deployed. Run out Rabblemasters, Pia and Kiran, Rakka Mar, SGC first to draw out their answers then Moggcatcher should be able to survive and take over the game. Don't play around Daze as they don't run it and deploy your threats aggressively.
What do you guys think about Sin Prodder?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/sh...04-sin-prodder
I'm liking it... A lot.
Menace means it's easier to connect.
Main board we have 26 zero cost cards. Everything else is 3+ (mostly three and a few 4/5 depending).
Sure, the opponent choosing is always bad but... a drawn card is a drawn card. Random is random and if they get rid of something it will potentially hurt a lot.
I think this is the 2R beater I've been waiting for and the (sometimes) card advantage I've been waiting for... RIP Flamespeaker.
Snap buying a playset.
[edit] Not to mention the art is badass and I've wanted a playable Devil for so long.
"I made a Redguard that looks like Kimbo Slice. He wrecks peoples' shit. And dragons." - Bignasty197
"Punisher" cards are easy to over-estimate, but it's interesting here at least since how often this deck goes into top-deck wars.
Usually I have three/ four mana, which is all most builds really need, and I then usually drop a lock piece on the first turn, only not to find enough threats (or the right lock piece) to win.
Lets go through the scenarios:
Sin Prodder is played after first your lock piece, and there's some low-cost mana spell you don't have a use for (Mox or Land) on top of your library: regardless of whether your opponent mills it or lets it go to your hand (if they're trying to attack through your Bridge maybe?), you at least get to draw the card under it too. In effect, if your top card is a land or a Mox, you get the card under it. Since the deck is 1/3rd mana, this is going to happen a lot.
You land a Sin Prodder and you are trying to find a threat to win the game; most of your threats cost 3-5 mana. If they have an answer for the threat, you get it for free and whatever is under it. If they don't have an answer for it, then they bin it and Sin Prodder deals 3-5 damage to them. Best case is they pay life to remove the threat and you draw another threat, but most-likely case is they just deal with the threat in the way that's most efficient for them at the time. This isn't really a good thing... Even dealing 3-5 damage a turn I still don't think he out-races Rabblemaster.
You land a Sin Prodder and desperately need to find the right lock piece. If the lock piece you seek is on top of your library, you will never get it. Yes, the odds are such that the piece you need is as likely second from the top as on the top, but this still reduces your chances of getting that one card you seek. So in this situation the card is actively bad.
You are stuck on three mana (or two, with a Moon turning a Sol land into a mountain), and you need to draw another mana card. Sin Prodder makes it harder to draw the mana, but in a deck with 50% mana sources, your odds aren't terrible. So it's only a little bad here.
I started writing this post wanting to play Prodder, writing it out I think he kinda sucks. He'll win the games you would've won anyways, but he'll actively lose you some games where most other three-drops would've been okay.
He would be interesting if we had some sort of recursion element where we just want to see cards and don't really care if they're in the hand or yard. Like if we had some phoenixes, Life from the Loam, Delve or flashback spells. I don't think such cards exist. Maybe a Welder/ Daretti MUD thing that's looking for some early pressure/ velocity.
I think this kind of thinking happens a lot in Magic but the reality is that his ability doesn't reduce the chances of getting the one card you seek at all. It's not actively bad in that scenario and won't cause you to lose games because of it any more than any other game where you didn't top deck the card you needed.
"This doesn't affect the probability distribution of your normal draw". - credit Awkward_Torkoal
Your top card is random.
Benefit I can see vs. Rabble is the evasion.
This is a very polarizing card and I'm enjoying the back and forth. We'll see how it does in testing. :)
"I made a Redguard that looks like Kimbo Slice. He wrecks peoples' shit. And dragons." - Bignasty197
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