[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[The Crow's Eye]

You will find a couple of DS decks that play 2x Avaricious Dragon over at MTC TC Decks. Here's what I'd do for a Stormbreath Dragon build. It uses the Hellbent skeleton, dropping the Hellbent elements for more reliable offense:

4x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Thunderbreak Regent
3x Stormbreath Dragon

3x Koth of the Hammer

4x Seething Song
4x Blood Moon
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere
4x Chrome Mox

4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
11x Mountain

Numbers may need some tinkering here and there, but the idea is that you drop the Taurean Mauler for Rabblemaster, and Koth's there in place of Gathan Raiders while Regent takes the place of Rakdos Pit Dragon and SBD is there in place of Arc Slogger.

[TMPWDobs]

I have foil playsets of that and Breakneck Rider/Neck Breaker scheduled to arrive Saturday.

I don't expect these to make Werewolf Stompy more playable than other versions of the deck, but I wanted to test it before writing it off.

Mike Werewolf Stompy went 5-2 At GP NY sideevent missing top 8 on last round

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...p_ny_werewolf/

[Ace/Homebrew]

Mike Werewolf Stompy went 5-2 At GP NY sideevent missing top 8 on last round

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...p_ny_werewolf/

Nice find Zach! Interesting that he used Rabblemaster instead of more werewolves.

[The Crow's Eye]

How long does it take for you to start profiting from Prophetic Flamespeaker once you've cast him?

[Ace/Homebrew]

How long does it take for you to start profiting from Prophetic Flamespeaker once you've cast him?

Immediately?
You untap, attack to see what he reveals, then play any lands he shows and evaluate whether to play any exiled cards or cards from hand.

[The Crow's Eye]

Thanks, that's how I'd been using Flamespeaker too. Without any equipment, how often to you find him dealing damage to get his effect?

Also, I'm playing Gerardo Heidel's list - if you have your 3Sphere in the SB, I endorse the use of Coercive Portal - its really great combo'd with Flamespeaker and Chandra, Pyromaster.

[Sergi]

Why we are not icluding some number of red fetchlands? Maybe 6 mountains / 4 fetches? Lategame with moon on table they will be mountains anyway and could improve draws filtering. I don't know if this topic was already discussed.

[ZTurgeon]

Why we are not icluding some number of red fetchlands? Maybe 6 mountains / 4 fetches? Lategame with moon on table they will be mountains anyway and could improve draws filtering. I don't know if this topic was already discussed.

The filtering is so small that it negligible. Additionally, they fuel enemy deathrite shamans.

[Ace/Homebrew]

The filtering is so small that it negligible. Additionally, they fuel enemy deathrite shamans.

And Price of Progress. The math on this has been done... It's something like 4 fetchlands equate to one non-land card drawn over a land. Not worth it even if you could run 12 fetchlands to actually use 4 in one game.

@ Crow's Eye - Often! Basically any time it is unfavorable for the opponent to block. Most won't sacrifice their board presence unless it is a trade or when not blocking will kill them. My favorite reveal is usually a 2nd Flamespeaker.

[frogger42]

Hi! Long-time Chalice player, first time (possibly) red player. I was digging through some European lists this past BoM, and I think a couple of them really stuck out at me. They just kind of have upgraded a lot of the stuff going on.

And I'm going to be honest - not a huge fan of the TB Regent. It's 4/4 for 4... a lot of things are bigger at 2-3 CMC. I'd opt for something more versatile instead.

10 Mountains
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
2 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 FTK
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker


Card choices: FTK/Skarhan, the other FTK for creature removal. These both help your Rabblemaster get through and finish games in 2 turns.
SoFI - I love my Chalice @ 2, so dropping Jitte for SoFI seems weird, but I'm going to try it. Also, a lot of these guys are ground-pounders, so getting a True-Name in the way would really get me punk'd.
Scab-Clan - With only really 4 Chalice to thwart combo, Scab-Clan seems like the other 4 slots to stop them. Another card I bought this week was Sin Prodder, but I think this card is more consistent and maybe powerful, even.

I won't have time to really test this week, but the SB would have Revoker and T Crypt. Thoughts on anything obvious I'm missing?

EDIT: This list is called "1-Dragon Stompy"

[rlesko]

FTK - Flametongue Kavu? He seems to have fallen out of favor. I'm not sure why.

[Ace/Homebrew]

FTK - Flametongue Kavu? He seems to have fallen out of favor. I'm not sure why.

Flametongue Kavu vs Fire Imp

I'm more interested in sparking a debate than I am in expressing a preference.*

What does FtK kill that Fire Imp can't? The format is mostly X/2s.
They both die to pretty much the same stuff, but FImp costs less.



*I lied, I prefer Fire Imp.

[frogger42]

Flametongue Kavu vs Fire Imp

I'm more interested in sparking a debate than I am in expressing a preference.*

What does FtK kill that Fire Imp can't? The format is mostly X/2s.
They both die to pretty much the same stuff, but FImp costs less.



*I lied, I prefer Fire Imp.

This is an excellent point. But there are a lotta rando stuff out there - Painter's Servants that may need to go, maybe buffed-up Lords of Atlantis. Monastery Mentors prolly can't reach past the 4 dmg on your turn, either. For one more mana, FTK can clear a lot more of the random stuff out, plus it's a serious finisher.
(And Batterskull Germs, too. If you want something more typical to find.)

But Fire Imp is still pretty good, I'll admit, and definitely warrants a discussion. I just feel for 1 more mana, you get double the whammy.

I just tested against my friend's rogue Death and Taxes. I figure it was the hardest MU I'd have on me, and a few notes: Mother of Runes is a beast. (I'd imagine TNN would be almost as bad, maybe a bit easier to deal with.) All my removal is Sorcery-speed, yikes. And also every game my opponent had a basic Plains out, so Mooning him wasn't great; Chalice was a bit more effective a prison piece, mostly on the play, not always great. Equipment, esp Jitte and SoFI are a nightmare against this list. And Sarkhan is about impossible to play through a Thalia, esp with my own Moon out making my double-lands Mountains. Still, with this rough list, I took maybe 1/4- 1/3 of the games, in a really, really awful MU. I'm sure BUG and the Delver variants are much, much easier to smash in, considering their greedy manabases.

Just some thoughts! Thanks for the ideas, I'm definitely not up-to-date on all the red prison/control pieces I should consider for this.

[Esper3k]

[The Crow's Eye]

Flametongue Kavu vs Fire Imp

I'm more interested in sparking a debate than I am in expressing a preference.*

What does FtK kill that Fire Imp can't? The format is mostly X/2s.
They both die to pretty much the same stuff, but FImp costs less.



*I lied, I prefer Fire Imp.

I lean more towards FTK, though never more than 2 in the deck. They die to the same things, but I like that FTK gets closer to putting my opponents to 0. I also usually run 11 Mountains main, so that might factor in me hitting 2RR as needed. I can see where the lower cost and evasion would be handy, but I'm more into getting them dead quick.

My current "Semester's Over, Rotations Starting, IDGAF" rig:

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Avaricious Dragon
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Moltensteel Dragon

2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

4 Draconic Roar
4 Seething Song
3 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox

11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Sideboard
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Anarchy
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Trinisphere

[Ace/Homebrew]

Draconic Roar looks great there!
Don't forget Moltensteel Dragon cannot imprint under Chrome Mox... Something to consider when sideboarding in any of your 10 colorless cards.

[frogger42]

Haha, I don't think Anarchy will be castable (in time) vs a Thalia on board. But I was thinking Pyrokinesis would be AMAZING in the SB. And a lot more flexible.

@ Crow's Eye - I'm not a huge fan of the 4-drops you run. I think it's a high amount, at 10 (I run 8, and I still feel that's a bit high), doesn't capitalize on your Seething Songs, and they're all vanilla finishers, none of them do any prison work (though Avaricious Dragon does add extra oomph to your gameplan). I know you like your Dragon-bolt card, and are kinda forced to lay heavy into the dragons to get it to work... but is it necessary? I think Pyrokinesis is better, it can kill many more dudes (and you're more concerned with getting board control with a prison deck, anyway, not extra burn damage). I think the gameplan should aim more toward controlling the board as much as you can, while dropping threats. The more you jam down "Need to Force" threats, the more your opponent will stretch their Forces - stuff like Fire Imp, FTK, will still net you board control even if your opponent can get normal removal going, and in certain situations, are "need to Force" threats.

Avaricious Dragon is a good consideration; even though it dies to Swords, it's still a "must answer right away" kind of threat, or it boosts you really hard. Arti-Dragon and even Regent are all fairly answerable with Swords / Terminus / perhaps other removal without giving you any card advantage, board control, more tangible gains (other than a bit of damage from a Regent trigger). Even a "finisher" like Rabblemaster - 1 less mana, splashable, can net extra tokens even if it dies - feels a lot more efficient. Just my two cents.

EDIT - Other removal might include Jace TMS, Liliana, maybe recurring Batterskull Germs. Liliana seems like a really really rough card to have to face with a slower deck.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Yeah, I was going to suggest Fiery Confluence but figured you'd have trouble casting it too.
Although Confluence does solve the Sword/Jitte issue you had where Anarchy doesn't (besides being more useful outside the D&T matchup). Have you considered Sudden Demise?

Worth noting, Thunderbreak Regent is going to kill any Jace that tries to bounce it, flies over a majority of D&T creatures (and I believe many D&T players board out some number of Flickerwisps against use because of the in its casting cost) and does not die to SoFaI triggers/Jitte counters. It is also a formidable threat turn 2 or 3, which is entirely doable in this deck.

Rabblemaster is also a terrible card when facing an opponent's Batterskull. It basically reads "Your opponent gains 4 life during your turn in addition to the 4 they gain during their turn."



Edit - Cave-In is also a card.

[frogger42]

Worth noting, Thunderbreak Regent is going to kill any Jace that tries to bounce it, flies over a majority of D&T creatures (and I believe many D&T players board out some number of Flickerwisps against use because of the in its casting cost) and does not die to SoFaI triggers/Jitte counters. It is also a formidable threat turn 2 or 3, which is entirely doable in this deck.

Rabblemaster is also a terrible card when facing an opponent's Batterskull. It basically reads "Your opponent gains 4 life during your turn in addition to the 4 they gain during their turn."

I think Cave-In sounds really great in the dragon version, where none of your dudeses die to it. Batterskull is a problem for Rabble-Rabble. My list is currently running 8 FTKs to clear the board for Rabble, though, and I can always just keep him a dead card in hand... then side him out. Rabble is AMAZING against DnT, because so many of their dudes have 1 - toughness. And if it dies to Thalia, who cares, it's a token. I played Rabble a little bit, and I think he's just so much better than the vanilla 4-drops, though you want removal / equip to make it super-effective. Just the occasional BSkull isn't reason enough to drop what I see as a much more efficient card.

I disagree on Flicker. It WRECKS our own Chalices. Any DnT player worth their salt will know that, and prolly side out other 3-drops, like Aven/Pegasus if they run them. I tend to side out Chalice against DnT, if there's anything I feel is better. It's a liability vs DnT.

Regent - it's got a totally passive ability. It doesn't affect the board whatsoever. And when it triggers - it only domes someone, doesn't generate CA (unless you're hitting a Planeswalker). Plus it's RR. Definitely not a fan of it.

EDIT - Sudden Demise vs Pyrokinesis will take testing. I think the instant-speed on Pyro might be super clutch, though (in resp to Equipping). And the fact I can T1 Pyro, like for a Mom.

EDIT 2 - Rabble-Rabble has to absolutely WRECK Liliana. I can't see any way Lil can deal with a Rabble. And from the style of this deck, I think Liliana is definitely the WORST planeswalker to face up against. You drop 1 dude a turn, she eats 1 dude. And her +1 is atrocious, too, because there's almost no Card Advantage / Filtering. I think she might be public enemy #1, she always has been for most of my other decklists.

[Sergi]

Maybe a better replacement for FTK could be Spitebellows

Easier to cast with evoke and also can kill eldrazis or gurmag anglers. Also for only one mana more ends with the oppenent faster once in field.