The Pralate is problematic but there is still Dread of Night waiting to make a comeback.Originally Posted by Contract Killer
WantToPonder
former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
Team MTG Berlin
The Dragonstorm
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the prelate is a serious problem.....because:
1) probably they are gonna play it MD, it's very powerful. And game 1 if the call "4" it's over, no tendrils, no empty, no party.
2) It's 2/2, so you need TWO dread of night. Better a massacre at this point, but if they call 4 you cannot play it. So, 4 dread of night SB? I don't know......
My only hope is that they are slow cards, cmc3 gives us the time to win before hate comes down.
I think with Decay, Chain, Disfigure, and Massacre we should be ok against the Prelate. Too many costs for them to name. It'll be annoying, but I don't think it'll take slots already reserved for Canonist or Thalia. Also, still not as good as Gaddock Teeg in Mav or similar. With all that said, there's always a chance they'll stack up and lock us out, but that feels too slow to worry about unless we open with a real stinker of a hand.the prelate is a serious problem.....because:
1) probably they are gonna play it MD, it's very powerful. And game 1 if the call "4" it's over, no tendrils, no empty, no party.
2) It's 2/2, so you need TWO dread of night. Better a massacre at this point, but if they call 4 you cannot play it
My only hope is that they are slow cards, cmc3 gives us the time to win before hate comes down.
Anybody seen any cards spoiled that look good for us? Glad to see Burning Wish again, even if it's not exactly up our alley.
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Also this is worser than any other hatebear.
Its turn 3 and also dont stop us from doing other things, cantrips, nauseam, tutor.
They call 4 we just go ad nauseam and win.
What will Ad Nauseam do if they have a chalice on 4? I guess we can close the game out for the opponent, but we're not going to win.
Between this and the new recruiter, it's going to be a struggle to win past turn 3 against DnT. We might want to go with less anti-hate and more speed post-board, and just hope for quick kills. I don't think we have the sideboard space to adequately fight miracles, delver, eldrazi stompy, and the new D&T.
g2/3 ok, we can decay it or bounce it, but g1?
Yeah that guy will be a problem.
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Thats the same as g1 thalia. Its usualy not easy to beat (doable but not real).
And this comes one turn latter.
Its like tegg. And we dont worry (also tegg comes faster and is tutoreable with gsz and played with mana dorks).
We dont play cards for this.
G1 we have 3 options vs tegg:
Discard it
Win faster
Hope they dont have it.
We dont play md aswers for it. And this is even slower.
G2 whatever they call we blunce or destroy it. After or before drawing our deck or going off and win. Like always.
I don't know if this experience is representative, but I find that I have a lot of trouble beating D&T in game 1 if I can't combo by the end of my third turn as it is. Thalia still hits on turn 2, so we're already in a tight spot regardless of the Prelate.
I feel like the best way to think about Prelate on 4 is as a slower, un-Zenith-able Gaddock Teeg. Teeg shuts out Massacre (one reason I haven't run it in a while) and is automatic GG in game 1, but we should build answers to Teeg into our sideboards. The same answers will work against the slower Prelate. Prelate can also hit 1 or 2 to stop us from playing our utility cards or acceleration, but they'd need to hit 1, 2, and 4 to deal with all our likely sideboard tech (Chain, Disfigure, Truth, Decay, Massacre), and D&T doesn't run Probe effects [EDIT: Obviously there are other ways for them to build a prison using other prison creatures, but they can do that just as easily, if not even more easily, with zero Prelates as they can with multiple Prelates]. And even with the new Prelate, Canonist is still a better sideboard option for them. Vryn Wingmare is another taxing white creature with the same cmc as the Prelate, but it doesn't get played much for the same reason I don't think Prelate will see much action—it's a turn too slow and is just as vulnerable as anything else if they can't land Mother of Runes.
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I am actually a bit worried about the new Butt Recruiter, though. Not because it's fast, but because it's going to give D&T even more redundancy. Sure, we still need to race them—and we're capable of doing that pretty often—but I think our chances are slim and none of beating D&T if they can survive past turn 4, and if they start Recruiting out multiple Canonists, I'm worried Slim will leave town.
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I don't agree with you guys comparing tegg to the new chalice-with-legs. Yes, your arguments are valid, but let's be practice: how much is tegg spread in the current meta? MD only maverick and aggro loam use it. Tegg is a very big problem g1, but I'm not worried about it because honestly I rarely faced it g1.
This new guy will be used A LOT, and this worries me.
Its still worser than a chalice t2 or a thalia t2.
Also not convinced this will make a real difference. It doesn't look as good as canonist, as far as I can tell, and is slow (turn 3 if they don't wasteland you at any point). I'll reserve final judgement, but I'm thinking this will be less of a problem then it looks. My prediction is that the place it will see the most play will be in a toolbox variant of D&T with the new recruiter card, which will make it even slower. D&T lists are already fairly tight, and I'm not convinced there are many, if any, cards they'll want to cut to make room for this. We'll see though, as predictions are often way off the mark.
I have a lot of D&T in my local meta, and I have the same experience. You either need to therapy Thalia out of their hand before they make their second land drop, or it's very likely you'll lose G1. No stress, though, we have very diverse hate options against them, as you mentioned, and are able to hit a variety of cmc's. I feel like dread of night is a little underrated here, as you only really need one to switch off both Thalia and Mom, which leaves everything else exposed to disfigure/decay/any other hate you like, and unlike massacre, it can't be played around.
I may be alone on this one, but I actually find Maverick to be a much worse matchup than D&T. The inevitability they've got with Deathrite, GSZ, Gaddock, Canonist, and Thalia is just crazy. And a lot of those creatures are slotted into the main. D&T's only got Thalia preboard, and postboard they only get Canonist.
It's worth pointing out that Mav can't clock us nearly as quickly as D&T can, but they can toolbox out a whole lot of cards against us on T3 that we have to remove or we're dead. D&T can savage us pretty heavily on/by turn 3, but they don't have the same density of lock pieces.
This Prelate might boost D&T's odds of hitting lock cards, but they'll be losing speed to do it, and even if they run Butt Recruiters, they still won't be as consistent as Mav—and they'll end up being slower.
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In the face of these new creatures for the hate bear deck will you ignore them or are you going to make some changes to your 75? If plan on making any changes, what do you have in mind? What will your sideboard look like in a few weeks?
BTW I really enjoy your streams. Wish you would do more.
In D&T it's just another, slower bear, but in Miracles or Blade I think it's a bit worry some to have a Meddling Mage that can protect itself vs Abrupt Decay or Massacre.
this, also Leovold will be a problem
Care to explain your opinion? I don't see how this card will be a problem. The draw restriction makes me think this card won't be played in decks that run either brainstorm+ponder (BUG delver) or ancestral vision (shardless bug).
As for the second ability, I have some experience vs delver decks that have boarded in mystic remora and have not had any trouble beating those.
I know this is only anecdotal data, but imo that is better than nothing.
In short I don't understand why this card would be more worrying than the 2 spoiled white cards.
Also my sb is build to beat the decks I expect the most. I have played masaacre the last months in some events where I expected a lot of taxes. Its just you have to adapt yourself.
Also the problem of my stream is that I dont have time always to do it. Gf, job, friends, family and so.
But thanks!
With a lethal ToA on the stack you opponent gets to draw 10+ cards right into Mindbreak Trap/Flusterstorm
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