I have been tinkering around with a new variant of burn, which I'm calling Bedlam Burn. This is because it has a relative dependency on Bedlam Reveler.
cantrips: The first two are used as cycling cards, however the probe provides information. They are a bit of a non-bo with eidolon of the great revels, but early game they have provided enough to keep in the deck. i discovered faithless looting a bit later, but realize after some testing that it is quite strong and allows you to cheat on lands, and flashback later on to get rid of junk. another primary function of this card is to enable cheap bedlam revelers.
4 gitaxian probe
4 manamorphose
4 faithless looting
burn: the core burn of the deck hasn't changed too much. because the deck is playing with so much card filtering, less bolts need to be played. there is unfortunately no getting around 4 lightning bolt and 4 chain lightning, but lava spike and rift bolt have been shaved down. rift bolt is at 3 because I like the ability to have a turn 1 play that can't be dazed easily. lava spike has its merits in this list as well because you can cast it when you have 3 mana in order to bring the bedlam reduction to RR. you can also get 3 damage immediately when drawn from bedlam reveler.
I have been very impressed with fireblast in this list. it's great to resolve a reveler, and with its ability on the stack, cast fireblast. there is usually a good enough chance to redraw into at least 1 land. again these numbers aren't completely firm and will require more testing.
one thing to note is that in my testing, i do not mind firing burn directly at any relevant targets. between reveler and faithless looting you will redraw into more burn, and unless if they are refilling their hand constantly, you will outdraw them.
4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
3 rift bolt
2 lava spike
3 fireblast
3 exquisite firecraft
3 price of progress
1 searing blaze
creatures: this is the biggest change of the deck. i had originally kept the swiftspears as i felt they would be powered heavily by the cantrips, but i felt in the end now the opponent's removal is limited to just reveler, and eidolon. grim lavamancer could easily find a home here, i just haven't tested him yet.
4 eidolon of the great revel
4 bedlam reveler
this is the lowest i could get to with the lands, although it might be worth trying 9 fetches and 8 mountains. this is pretty tough, but i have been okay with the 17 in its current configuration.
9 mountain
2 scalding tarn
2 wooded foothills
2 bloodstained mire
2 arid mesa
here's the cards i've been testing in sb, nothing too crazy here:
3 grafdigger's cage
1 surgical extraction
1 exquisite firecraft
1 searing blaze
1 price of progress
1 ensnaring bridge
2 red elemental blast
3 smash to smithereens
2 pyrostatic pillar
edit: i'm sure there are some questionable plays, but this should show the power of this deck, and why i'm making concessions with probe+manamorphose+looting for reveler.
first match vs miracles: 2-0 (this was in casual tourney practice room)
https://recordings.join.me/v0VRvuuaw0SwmKoQMADI4Q
2nd match vs junk nitfit: 2-1 (this was a 2 man event)
https://recordings.join.me/jvosveXq5E6hqOFBl6pf1w
I will get more games in and post here. Would love to hear from people that are wiling to give this a shot, and not just bash it. Ideal criticism would be something like "I tried this list, and X and Y happened. How can the deck be modified to deal with X and Y situations?
I am starting a new thread here as the deck is different enough from traditional burn and the responses there have not been positive. If the deck ends up becoming similar to traditional burn then we can discontinue this thread, but at this time they feel quite different.
Thanks,
-Rob
update, played a competitive league. finished 2-3. really great though as drawing into reveler can get you out of most situations.
league 1
r1, chaos elves
0-2. seems to be unfavorable. not as bad as natural order elves...maybe i'm wrong here?
2-0, painter
g1 he went all in on the play with blood moon. game 2 i killed 3 painters and a goblin welder while a grindstone was out.
0-2 grixis delver.
i wasn't patient enough game 1 and that cost me the game. so now i've learned that if you have a fireblast and don't need to do it, it might not always be correct. i had reveler with 3 lands in play. went down to 1 land to hit a fireblast....never drew another land when i had him at 2 life. was stuck with 2 more revelers and 2 eidolons. so we went about 6 turns with my reveler and his true name nemesis just sitting there. eventually i decided to pull the gun and go to 2 life with a gitaxian probe in hopes for a 2nd land. (i had eidolon + fireblast in hand and hew as at 1...i whiffed. figured he was overdue for a bolt at the time anyway)
game 2 he sided in a jitte and i was unprepared for it. i could have cleared his board, which might have been the right decision (but it required me to go to 1 land). also i had sided out 1 faithless, it's probably not a good idea to do this.
2-1 bant
drew enough burn and kept his guys off the table. he was about to have jitte + true name, but i ripped an exquisite off the top (needed to deal 4 more with that draw, or another bedlam into something crazy)
1-2 junk
game 1 i got double goyf'd. goyf tends to be a problem with this deck.
game 2 i had enough burn to finish him off and bedlams got some tempo.
game 3 i drew 3 revelers at the same time, had him pretty close but he drew into goyf, stoneforge.
overall pretty happy with the deck, will have to do a lot of testing on paper with someone like minded to make this deck a bit more resilient.
the grixis loss was probably my fault. the other two it may have been out of my reach. 2-3 when it probably should have been 3-2 is a fine way to start.
Last edited by mistercakes; 08-15-2016 at 08:53 PM.
-rob
Keep it up! Deck looks spicy.
WantToPonder
former: Team SpasticalAction & Team RugStar Berlin
Team MTG Berlin
Originally Posted by guillemnicolau
The Dragonstorm
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...he-Dragonstorm
Is it really necessary to play Probe and Manamorphose, just to fill the graveyard? Would more burn spells instead make it so much slower?
How good/bad is drawing Bedlam in multiples?
Looting and Bedlam both enable Madness triggers, would Fiery Temper be worth considering?
fiery temper could be okay here...hadn't thought of that. the reason i'm running probe and manamorphose is b/c it allows me to cheat on lands.
i suppose we could try another version with more lands and run some more burn spells. this isn't really a fast deck, so i'm not too worried about the speed. casting reveler on turn 4-5 is fine from my testing. multiples is fine, it sorta sucks when you have 3 in hand, but i've had 2 in hand at a time and haven't cared that one had to be discarded. also if they have a counterspell (he's a must counter), it's fine to have the 2nd. 3 in hand is unfortunate and i don't think those scenarios are too frequent.
given that the deck is on 17 lands right now, i could try cutting the manamorphose for 2 more lands and 2 burn spells. (likely 2 searing blazes, but we can try a temper)
i'd also like to squeeze in 1 grim lavamancer or possibly 2. giving some more outs to goyf (1 burn spell + 1 activation) would help a lot vs that guy.
-rob
That guy is pushing you to run a deck filled with instant and sorceries, and is orienting towards a mid-lategame.
Wouldn't it make sense to run it Rb with discard and Young pyro? they kind of have similar build-orienting things, and manage to occupy different niches at the same time (one is to be played asap, the other is to be played as the last card of your hand).
Besides, if your goal is to do nothing but cast blasts until T4-5, I guess you need discard or why to run something 100% soft to combo if you are not as good as lands vs non-combos decks?
Faithless Looting seems bad on paper - it enables Reveler, but it's a poor fit for the burn game plan. That said, you've got a good number of discard outlets, so you could consider a madness package with Fiery Temper and (with a black splash) Alms of the Vein (and maybe even collective brutality.)
Land Grant + Taiga is a way to have a fetchland that counts as an instant/sorcery.
There's some discussion of a similar concept in the SCD thread, though people tended to think more in terms of delver.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...r-Eldrich-Moon
good point about the discard. it is possible that this should be more in a control shell. i will have to test a few things first, but it was working alright in a burn shell. i liked the consistency of playing monocolored.
i think the deck will want 3 grim lavamancers to make use of the excess spells/lands in the graveyard. i've found myself mostly using faithless just to find lands and fill up the graveyard.
i had considered running the land grant/taiga package but am afraid wasteland will cause this deck to fall apart.
edit: i'm willing to take this deck in different directions as long as we can break this reveler :)
i'd prefer for it to be a bit more unique than just a delver deck adding another good card.
-rob
If I may repost something that @Captain Hammer posted in the other Bedlam Reveler thread....seemed like a fun list to me.
Really loaded up on spells, weaker to both Wasteland and Chalice I suppose. There probably could be fudging to come up with correct numbers, and inclusion of Grim Lavamancer or perhaps Swiftspear. I think perhaps that some number of Tyrant's Choices could be replaced by Swiftspears and Lavamancers? It's cheap enough I might throw it together online for fun. I've always like the idea of "44-card foom" type decks.
looks fun. will have to test, though i really do like faithless looting!
-rob
Are you committed to going with a burn/tempo approach?
i think a control shell would be a bit strange, but wouldn't be opposed to it. i really wanted to try it in jund as well, as jund goes for a bit of the long game.
-rob
I'm musing on the madness concept, and wondering about the possibility of Bedlam Reveler + Basking Rootwalla/Vengevine.
sounds like fun. then you can play more cards that fill up the graveyard really fast. multiple looting kind of cards.
-rob
Looks good, Steve.
Have you thought of including Grim Lavamancer?
Played in the NJ starcity legacy open today. Went 5-4, which I think is fine for a pile of stuff like this....for now.
4 bedlam reveler
4 eidolon of the great revel
4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
4 rift bolt
3 price of progress
3 fireblast
3 exquisite firecraft
4 manamorphose
4 faithless looting
4 gitaxian probe
19 mountain
sb
3 smash to smithereens
3 red elemental blast
3 ensnaring bridge
3 grafdigger's cage
1 exquisite firecraft
1 surgical extraction
1 volcanic fallout
Round 1: Bernard (Miracles)
game 1. He started with a mulligan. I probed him and saw force, terminus. My life stayed at 18 and his went 17, 14, 12, 10, 9, 7, 3 (i recall finishing him with a fireblast) reveler did get me an ancestral recall, but never had to attack with it as i won the following turn. (i did hit him with two PoP each for 2 damage)
game 2. things were going well. I had him down to 13 and had 2 revelers in hand. he fetched, and on my next turn i hit him with exquisite firecraft to put him at 8. he drew his singleton rest in peace (he also had an e-tutor). at that point he fetched himself to 7 life. i was sitting with volcanic fallout + exquisite firecraft, but i couldn't get him to 6. he got there. (i had a fireblast, but he had a counterspell for it)
game 3. this game wasn't as good. my notes have me with 20 life for the entire game. he had used e-tutor then snapcaster to e tutor again for rest in peace + energy field, and had out counterbalance + top. i scooped.
notes: i feel like this was a bit unlucky for me, as most players would not have sided in the rest in peace, but since he was still siding energy field, it was a no-brainer for him to side the pair in.
Round 2: Ryan (esper deathblade)
game 1. i started with a probe seeing brainstorm, fetch, jace, stp, fow, and wasteland. he played a few guys (never a true name), so i just killed them all. he was pretty weak to price of progress as well.
game 2. he mulliganed and it looked like more of the same. reveler was relevant in this game to deal a few damage. felt pretty favored for me.
Round 3: Ze'eva (burn)
I recall Ze'eva playing burn in a starcity feature match a few months ago vs miracles and hoping she would win, so i recalled she was probably on burn.
game 1. she won the die roll, and started off with a goblin guide. i kept a 1 land and whiffed....i missed several land drops and she ran out of gas with me at 4 life. i finally was able to faithless looting and get ready to go off with burn + bedlam...i think i could have attacked for 16 the following turn. this means she needs to draw a non fireblast or needs two 3 damage burn spells out of the next two cards. while hellbent she just draws fireblast and kills me. had i drawn a 2nd mountain i think i would have been fine, but i took about 10 damage from creatures while holding removal in hand.
game 2. this game i just never had a chance. she had the turn 1 guide following by slow playing some burn. i think she had an eidolon. the matchup didn't feel good for me and i'm not sure it ever will be!
Round 4: Jake (BR reanimator)
game 1. he mulligans over and over again until he gets to 4. i put him on dredge, but am wrong. he had fetched at some point then cast faithless looting, binning a reanimate and a sire of insanity. i put him down to 6 within 3 turns (he was slow b/c of the mulligan). he's unable to cast reanimate as he casts unmask at 10 and i fireblast in response. he scoops instead of playing it out.
game 2. i side in 3 grafdiggers, 1 surgical, 3 bridge. i have the turn 1 cage. my life total goes...18 (probe) 14, 10, 4 (this is all b/c i played 4 eidolons). he couldn't cast anything and somehow i won this bad matchup.
Round 5. Brad (infect)
game 2. I don't recall who was on the play. I think he was. I start with a probe seeing invig, berserk, FoW, vines of vastwood, pendelhaven, blighted agent. fortunately i'm holding rift bolt, chain, lightning bolt, fireblast. he plays the agent, and i make sure on my turn i kill it with chain, bolt, fireblast exhausting his hand and killing his guy (he didn't draw another blue card for the FoW). i then cast eidolon of the great revels and got my damage through.
game 2. He's on the play and starts with a hierarch. i probe him and see 2 blighted agent, vines of vastwood, flusterstorm, daze. he plays the green guy (G 1/1 infect) and passes. i suspend rift bolt. on his turn he doesn't do too much, hits me for 2 infect. on my turn the rift bolt targets hierarch, he vines it. then i cast volcanic fallout. then next turn i cast bedlam reveler (i had probed + faithless looting + manamorphose so i had some spells) he never draws lands and can't stop the big fatty.
Round 6. Tom (led dredge)
game 1. he has a pretty good hand with 2 imp, grave troll, breakthrough, and 2 lands. i never had a chance.
game 2. i resolve a turn 1 grafdigger's cage. he struggles to keep up. i follow up with an ensnaring bridge and he can't get there.
game 3. he mulls once and keeps. i figure my hand is pretty good. he is likely trying to deal with cage or bridge. i have an opening hand with bridge and some burn spells and a faithless looting. he kept a hand with no dredger but a faithless looting. he durdles for a few turns and we go back and forth. after a few turns he finally hits a dredger. i have him down to 5 life and have 2 turns to win. i have a fireblast in hand, but can't ever find another burn spell. (he also abrupt decayed my bridge) was fun, game 1 is almost a sure autoloss, but with 3 cage, 3 bridge, and 1 surgical i feel like it's not a complete bust. (he was also on quad lazer build)
Round 7. Zach (ANT)
game 1. he doesn't do too much too fast, i burn him a bunch of times and have 2 eidolons.
game 2. more of the same. this time he cabal therapies an eidolon, but i manage to draw a few more due to some good luck.
Round 8. Danny (Jund)
game 1. i play a faithless looting discarding a rift bolt and a firecraft (i think). he plays a turn 2 goyf (he was on the play) i chain + bolt it. then he draws 2 more goyfs and i die.
game 2. i mulled once and kept a 4 land hand with 2 rift bolts. he has a turn 1 shaman, i kill it with a rift bolt. then he plays another shaman and thoughtseizes my other bolt (not sure why i didn't suspend it). he then follows up with goyf, then liliana he +1's a few times, i have bedlam reveler, but am topdecking lands so it doesn't make it cost less. then he plays a bloodbraid elf into hymn and i scoop.
Round 9. Nick (Painter)
apparently Zach from round 7 had rage quit from losing to my lucky draws and his friend nick told me about me playing some crazy bedlam reveler deck. cat out of the bag i guess.
game 1. he has a blood moon hand with 2 tombs and a welder. he eventually casts painters servant but doesn't have a grindstone. i pyroblast his welder, then kill his painter with a burn spell. this matchup seems really favorable for me.
game 2. more of the same, this matchup was just too good for me to finish the day.
was overall really satisfied with the deck. i felt like my game vs burn probably won't improve much. jund seems like it could be favorable, but will need more testing. miracles was super close, and dredge was as well even though my game 1 is terrible.
going 5-4 isn't so bad for new brew. reveler really is an ancestral recall + tarmogoyf in 1 card. i do think that maybe a Rb version might be great just for deathrite shaman and maybe some discard. additionally it might be okay to also take in another direction with Rg for better sb access, could run a badlands for deathrite as well.
thoughts? comments?
-Rob
will test the following next:
4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
2 rift bolt
2 exquisite firecraft
4 manamorphose
4 gitaxian probe
4 faithless looting
4 eidolon of the great revel
4 bedlam reveler
4 deathrite shaman
3 fireblast
2 price of progress
7 fetches
3 badlands
1 taiga
6 mountain
-rob
I keep looking at all of these lists and 4 Revelers seems wrong to me. Drawing multiples early is pretty bad in my mind, so maybe going to 3 might give the lists more consistency.
I've been toying with a casual Modern list and came to the conclusion that 4 Revelers is the way to go (after initially trying 3). Starting with 3 in hand sucks and is an automatic mulligan, but having one and occasionally drawing a 2nd isn't the end of the world. You have to discard the 2nd, but drawing 3 cards and getting a 3/4 Prowess body keeps you from feeling too bad about it.
Reveler is the card you want to see every single game you play.
I'm definitely not worried about discarding a second Reveler, but more worried about not getting enough instants and sorceries in the graveyard to cast him for RR quickly enough. I'm not sure how good he is if you cast him for too much more.
I agree with you that he's a card you want to see every game, but I'm not really sure if he's good in the opening hand or not. This is why I was thinking three might be good because in a deck like this he is a fantastic topdeck no matter what the game looks like. Dunno, just some thoughts.
mistercakes will have to provide feedback that actually means something, because at this point all my experience comes from goldfishing a casual deck.
I've found Faithless Looting to be an incredible engine for Reveler. I can keep pretty much all 1-land openers as long as Looting is part of the 7. I ditch any 'late game' (3 mana) instants or sorceries right away. Once Reveler hits the field, I flashback Looting to exchange lands drawn for spells.
Of course I get to play jank like Chandra's Phoenix to mitigate the card disadvantage since it's a filthy casual deck.
Legacy is a much harsher mistress though. I use Young Pyromancer to gum up the board, which a Legacy Burn deck really doesn't get to do if it wants to win.
----------------------
Edit:
For reference, cause why the hell not?
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Incinerate (Chandra alt-art)
4 Searing Blood
2 or 3 Exquisite Firecraft
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Collective Defiance
1 Ravaging Blaze
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
2 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
21 Mountains
I'm still deciding on what the other 2 or 3 cards will be...
If it isn't completely obvious, I'm making a Chandra-themed deck, trying to utilize as many cards with Chandra portrayed as possible.
Themo-Alchemist probably fits.
You might want to go UR for cantrips with young pyro though.
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