All B/R update speculation.

[Meekrab]

Thing is, why play delver with cruise if you can play delver with Necropotence?

Because Necropotence is uncastable in an 18 land 4 Wasteland UR deck, I would think.

[Gheizen64]

Its still totally misleading to bring up UG Madness in the context of today if Elvish, BUG or GWB Survival are so much better variants and the card-/creaturepool has become so much better than it was at the time of UG madness. Its like discussing Necropotence in context of suicide black aka Black Knight, order of ebon hand and H.Spectre.

Why not looking at all the cards printed and ran in decks with creatures especially as Maverick and Co are successors to Survival? Why do you insist to run FoW if you can run Thoughtseize+Thalia as your disruption? Why no one mentions how Explorer+Therapy+GSZ+Survival is a shell which can go nutz with Ranger of Eos? There are so many damn possibilities to look at and consider and it baffle me that all what keeps popping up are 10-year-old decks with less than 8 cards replaced

Nice way of completely missing the point. Sigh.

[Finn]

Snappy title...eh?

It is a bit more subtle than that, but it truly is a big deal. This is the DtB contents atm.

Miracles
Eldrazi
DnT
Lands
BUG Control

Notice anything particular? No true combo decks? That's true, but that has happened lots of times. Look again. There is something here that has never happened before since Legacy became a format in 2004. (actually, there were no records back then but it is still probably true) I will give you a moment to figure this one out.

Hint: It reflects a new trend in certain printed cards and how they affect Legacy.
Hint: It is bound to make this thread into a vacuous chasm where intellect gets subdued by raging doucheclown behavior.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
A minority of the DtB uses the cantrip card selection engine known colloquially as the "Cantrip Cartel".

Make no mistake, even if this is just a blip, and it could be with Lands being so expensive to assemble, it is a huge turn of events from just a few years ago, still in the grip of Dig Through Time, when the Cantrip Cartel finally took complete control of the cops, courts, and political system to push all other decks out of the DtB section.

Whatever your belief about the power of that card. Yes, that card, which I will not name. It is undeniable that you no longer have to play blue or go home. Apparently, the tutor engines of Lands and its recurring combo wincon are good enough. Eldrazi, with the raw power of its aggressive cards alongside the oppressive Chalice of the Void is also able to compete. And Death and Taxes' variable aggro-prison plan (with several recent upgrades) is also taking a bite out of blue. Make no mistake that Miracles is still the top dog by a mile. But you can now make a defensible argument that Miracles is the natural home of the cantrip engine (the way Gamble/Loam is so much better in Lands than any other deck) while all other cantrip-wielding decks, especially control decks are just looking for a niche. It's not a strong argument, but it is now a possible one.

If you are brave enough to go looking through the archives of the BR thread - heh. "Archives" Makes it sound so official, organized, and useful. - you would find just a few of us pushing for wotc to bring the format under control by printing powerful cards that don't work well with the environment created by cantrips (fetchlands, lots of blue cards, few creatures, etc.). It is a work in progress, but they have succeeded to a degree that it is definitely noticeable. I for one, am quite pleased with the effects of this campaign to reel in the dominance of blue. Maybe I am giving them too much credit. But there it is.

[nedleeds]

This is because we have a paucity of events longer than 7 rounds now not because Brainstorm is less oppressive. A chalice deck can navigate shakey draws in a shorter event. The days of an 8 round+ event every week via Star City is over. The SCG Legacy open was 12 of 16 brainstorm, far more than Survival or Misstep managed.

[non-inflammable]

which I will not name

Voldemort?

[btm10]

This is because we have a paucity of events longer than 7 rounds now not because Brainstorm is less oppressive. A chalice deck can navigate shakey draws in a shorter event. The days of an 8 round+ event every week via Star City is over. The SCG Legacy open was 12 of 16 brainstorm, far more than Survival or Misstep managed.

I think you're right that cantrip decks are more favored the longer a tournament goes. I also think that this is the major reason why Miracles tends to put up better results in SCG Opens and GPs than it does in SCG Classics or large local and regional events whose round count isn't artificially set at 15.

Events like Eternal Extravaganza and Eternal Weekend are great for Legacy. GPs and Opens, for this and other reasons, aren't.

[Barook]

August/September are normally better months for nonblue decks due to lack of bigger tournaments and less tournaments in general, making data collected from those less reliable than other months due to lesser sample size.

That said, looking at the mtgtop8.com data for paper tournaments, we're at 55% BS in the last two months - which is still higher than the 51% we had in 2011 before Delver ruined the format forever.

Hardly something to get excited about.

[thecrav]

This is because we have a paucity of events longer than 7 rounds now not because Brainstorm is less oppressive. A chalice deck can navigate shakey draws in a shorter event. The days of an 8 round+ event every week via Star City is over. The SCG Legacy open was 12 of 16 brainstorm, far more than Survival or Misstep managed.

Further to this, Eldrazi and Death and Taxes are quite cheap in comparison to the rest of the format* meaning that more players can play them. A stuck clock is only right twice a day but fifty stuck clocks are right one hundred times per day.

In terms of consistency, you have
There's a bunch of us so one of us should draw well today - Eldrazi & D&T
I use card selection that isn't blue (including R for almost-Demonic Tutor) - Lands
Voldemort - BUG & Miracles


* Using MTGGoldfish because it displays totals and I'm lazy:
Death and Taxes: 1320.15
Eldrazi: $1438.57
Miracles: $2719.13
Lands: $2944.58
BUG Control: $3795.15

[glowparty]

What I'm starting to wonder is if this thread is conducive to anything positive. It seems that on every other page, someone is either attacking someone's opinions, credibility or someone personally. The basis for this thread is entirely opinionated and speculative - much more so than other threads - so it baffles me how constantly having to remind people in here of common courtesy etiquette and policing the most generic of polite behavior doesn't result in a positive endgame in any scenario. It's just an on-going circle-jerk of the same conversations over and over, with everyone trying to play the role of expert. Contributing something positive here is like trying to blast through the wall of slime covering the museum: it just doesn't seem to matter.

Seriously, there are way too many swinging dicks in here. It's a melting pot of opinions that only seems to draw ire and attacks that pulls a dark cloud over positive, fluid conversation. It gets really tiresome seeing teacher's red pen over an adult conversation, and I feel bad for Dice and every other mod who needs to correct people from acting like children.

Any topic can be approached unproductively. It's up to the communicator to be diligent in minding their intent. I like the topic of improving this forum overrall, because Legacy is a super fun and challenging game, and the internet offers exciting opportunity to develop ideas communally. It's a little puzzling to me why this forum isn't largely approached more like chess players approaching a chess forum.

[thecrav]

This is because we have a paucity of events longer than 7 rounds now not because Brainstorm is less oppressive. A chalice deck can navigate shakey draws in a shorter event.

The Decklists from the nine round Eternal Extravaganza 5 event are now posted. 75% Brainstorm.
1: RG Lands
2: Eldrazi
3-4: UR Delver
3-4: UWr Miracles
5-8: Grixis Delver
5-8 Shardless BUG
5-8: UR Delver
5-8 Grixis Delver

[Dice_Box]

Don't read too much into the last two months of data. There was nothing to be seen and I had to do what I would akin to Hollywood Accounting to get what we have. I would also remind everyone it was this time a year or two back Miracles dropped out of the DTB for its only time in 3 years all on the back of a lack of events.

Really, there is nothing to see here. Sad as that is. But hey, Lands made the cut. Woot.

[.Ix]

The Decklists from the nine round Eternal Extravaganza 5 event are now posted. 75% Brainstorm.
1: RG Lands
2: Eldrazi
3-4: UR Delver
3-4: UWr Miracles
5-8: Grixis Delver
5-8 Shardless BUG
5-8: UR Delver
5-8 Grixis Delver

This links to the EE 4 Top 8.

[Lemnear]

Isnt the decrease of Brainstorm/Ponder/Probe pretty predictable if every deck attacks the 1cc cantrip galore with either Counterbalance, Chalice or taxing? I predicted the rise of Ancient Tomb + Chalice more than a year ago. Also I stated that the only blue decks to compete have to run Abrupt Decays to survive.

The metagame is split between Brainstorm+Decay versus cantriphate via permanents

[Megadeus]

It is somewhat inbred at this point. Not quite to the levels of the cruise/dig era of playing multiple main board red blasts, but still not great. When was the last time a non blue non lands deck that wasn't build specifically to crush brainstorm decks top tier? Maverick? Nic Fit was a dtb for a short while there I think

Derr I forgot hoof derp elfs. I guess that qualifies. But the meta still looks to me like it's basically play brainstorm or play to beat it. Maybe I'm just salty from thoughtseizing my stoneblade opponent and taking his only spell and leaving him with 5 lands and dying because he ripped a brainstorm off the top and completely dominated me because brainstorm is very clearly the most retarded card in the format and it's not even close

[twndomn]

The recent trend with the rise of DnT is interesting, but calling it a revolution is... over selling it. What if this turns out to be the flavor of the month? This could easily turn into false advertising.

[Cartesian]

You see what you look for. Eldrazi and Lands taking 1st and 2nd in a 9 round tournament? Clearly blue is dominating, because the other six decks in top 8 have blue in them...

One copy of Miracles, the unbeatable, best deck.

Aluren still below the radar, but clearly on the rise. Guess which card makes "new" fringe decks like that possible, I will give you a hint it's not a Recruiter.

These are interesting times, but it's no revolution.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Eldrazi and Lands taking 1st and 2nd in a 9 round tournament?

Just pointing out again that the link thecrav posted is for last year's event.

[Cartesian]

Just pointing out again that the link thecrav posted is for last year's event.

I see. Good point. So where is this year's?

[maharis]

This year's EE top 8 was:

3x Miracles
Infect
Grixis Delver
Reanimator
Punishing Maverick
Death & Taxes

The finals of the event were Grixis vs. Miracles with Miracles winning.

I am happy to see that the Brainstorm ratio has dropped from the 70% to 80% it was during the DTT era to a more manageable 55% now. However, I think the format is clearly narrower than its ever been in the 4-ish years I've been playing it regularly. Eldrazi has basically soaked up all the space for non-blue midrange decks and Chalice decks, while Miracles pushes out longtime stalwarts like tempo, Stoneblade decks of all colors, and any other deck leaning on a low curve.

[Poron]

To make counts on the basis of the frequency in the top8 it is necessary to unbias the numbers for the number of subscriptions.

If Miracle pilots were 70% of the total and Eldrazi players were 1% of the total to have just one of both in the top 8 would give a totally different lecture to the data (even tough it's still the same: 1 and 1).

We need more data. This said: I love blue since I was 9 but Sorcery speed cantrips (unless it's mana free) just sounds as a time walk for the opponent and I have never like it.

I fail to understand the popularity of Ponder. Dig Through Time was huge because it was Instant. Treasure Cruise was huge because for U netted you three cards, but Ponder.. I don't really understand