I would run it main. It's been a great G1 card for me since it beats common G1 Lock pieces (Chasm) while also being a really good card against Midrange decks (since it kills most creatures and also resets your ETB gobbos). The only thing it isn't good against is combo, but then nothing we play is good against combo so that's no reason not to maindeck it. Basically you can generally assume it will be decent against the field and bad against combo, so just maindeck it and side it out when you know it will be bad. In the words of Arrested Development, "That way you have it."Originally Posted by GoblinTurkey
Just of the top of my head something like this seems decent...
4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Marton
4 Warchief
4 Ringleader
2 Skirk
1 Kiki
1 Crafter
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk
1 Settler
3 Mogg War marshal
1 Gempalm
1 Sharpshooter
2 Krenko
22 Land
Glacial Chasm prevents any Kind of damage, so this is not a good example of a lock piece that Lightning Crafter can beat.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
It is though because they have to let it die on their turn and recur it. That's when you kill with LC at instant speed.
Unless they have Vesuva or Thespian's Stage (which they won't always have). But Wasteland deals with all of those.
I went to a legacy tournament in Syracuse, NY this weekend top 8'd. Went 3-2, and then lost Shardless BUG, both with close matches.
Here's my list:
Decklist:
Creatures
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Ringleader
2x Skirk Prospector
2x Goblin Piledriver
2x Mogg War Marshal
1x Goblin Chieftain
1x Goblin Settler
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Gempalm Incinerator
1x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
1x Lightning Crafter
Spells
4x Aether Vial
1x Tarfire
1x Warping Wail
Lands
4x Wasteland
3x Rishadan Port
3x Cavern of Souls
2x Ancient Tomb
4x Arid Mesa
1x Pendelhaven
5x Mountain
Sideboard:
1x Pithing Needle
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Gempalm Incinerator
2x Warping Wail
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Pyrokinesis
3x Chalice of the Void
3x Blood Moon
BUG Delver 2-0
Game 1 - Got down Aether Vial turn 1. Proceeded to keep pressure on with Ports and Wasteland until he couldn't play anymore spells. Killed him with a Lightning Crafter.
Game 2 - Turn 1 Aether Vial. Second turn I played wasteland and immediately targeted his land. He stifled the trigger. Next turn, I wasted again this time successfully. Then I drew another wasteland and tarfire'd his DRS. I proceeded to keep him locked out the rest of the game and won.
Grixis Delver 0-2
Game 1 - Drew all my four drops and no lands
Game 2 - Drew all lands and no spells
Reanimator 0-2
Game 1 - He exhumes an Ashen Rider and beats me in the air. I did not draw the proper support to overwhelm the board.
Game 2 - I start strong with a Chalice on 1, and then play two or three goblins. He exhumes a Grave Titan and gets in with it.
(Note - Ensnaring Bridge might have been a good card to SB in, but I didn't think of it at the time.)
Burn 2-0
Game 1 - He starts with a Rift Bolt. I start with an Aether Vial. He goes turn 2 Eidolon of the Great Revel, I take 2 damage and play Mogg War Marshal. I vialed in a Lackey. He kept doming me while I was able to build a big enough board presence with double lackey and matron getting Warchief. I swing in and he takes Goblin Lackey damage which gets in a Sharpshooter and vialed in a Warchief which allowed me to kill off Eidolon. I then slammed down Skirk Prospector and won by sacrificing my board.
Game 2 - Long story short, he played Ensnaring Bridge and I won with Siege-Gang Commander throwing things over the wall to victory. He mana flooded and I was able to get a chalice on 1 which shut his game down. I also drew lots of mountains so Price of Progress didn't just kill me.
(Note: First time I have ever beat burn with this deck.)
Miracles 2-0
Game 1 - I love this matchup and the opponent has obviously not played against goblins. I end up keeping a hand with two Cavern of Souls and Aether Vial. I keep up pressure with a Vial on 4 and Tuktuk Scrapper threatening his top. I forced his terminus three times and eventually destroyed his top. I managed to corner him down to one life with many fetch lands being wasted so he had to use them. I then tarfire'd him as he could not Force of Will. Also Goblin Settler crushed dreams by blowing up his basic Plains.
Game 2 - Chalice on 1 turn two with no response. Eventually drew Cavern of Souls. It went all downhill for him from there. Clean sweep.
Top 8 - Shardless 0-2
Ended up playing my friend that I test with. They were grindy games, but he won first game with two Creeping Tar Pits. The second game I hilariously locked both of us out of the game with Ensnaring Bridge and Blood Moon. But he managed to get a Jitte and Engineered Plague. So in short I died.
Overall Goblins performed very well this weekend for me. I wish that my Grixis Delver match wasn't just a game of Go-Fish for my opponent, but it happens. I like this list, I may alter the sideboard a bit for more graveyard hate.
"Gobble Gobble"
Nice report! Sounds like you had an exciting run!
I have a couple of thoughts/questions with regards to your list, and would like to hear your thoughts on these matters as well.
* I don't think your mono red build need fetchlands, especially since you play Ancient Tomb, which puts a strain on your life total already. Not playing fetchlands also makes DRS weaker, which is otherwise pretty strong against your mana denial plan.
* Your list is quite low on removal. Since your late game is so strong already (making surviving the early turns a priority), and because Ancient Tomb makes you more vulnerable to aggressive decks, I think a couple more removals are justified. The argument of DRS being good against your mana denial plan applies here as well.
R/B Goblins
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I find personally that fetchlands are useful. They help against the Miracles matchup and are useful to get mountains out of the deck when you're stuck. But I do agree about Ancient Tomb. I use it to enable turn 1 Chalice or turn 2 Blood Moon for the SB, but it does hurt early on. I might take one of the two out and run a 4th Cavern of Souls instead.
I put in Lightning Crafter as MB card for this tournament as removal. I think I may switch it back to SB and put in a MB Pyrokinesis. I have always mixed opinions on Pyrokinesis as every goblin in our deck is useful for most matchups in some shape or form. So pitching the card for it feels bad. Mana denial plan is fun, but I'm still working out the kinks.
Last edited by GoblinTurkey; 04-11-2016 at 02:19 PM.
"Gobble Gobble"
Hello fellow Chieftains,
I played our monthly event yesterday and this is the short report.
Result: 4-1 after 5 rounds, 27 players
Changes to the decklist since my last event:
MD: -2 Blood Moon, + 2 Warping Wail (I boarded Blood Moon out every game and I still need to test Warping Wail)
SB: -1 Stingscourger, -1 Goblin Settler, -1 Relich of Progenitus, +2 Blood Moon, +1 Grafdigger’s Cage
MANA (23)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Snow-Covered Mountains
10 Mountain
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Ringleader
4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Mogg War Marshal
1 Stingscourger
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Warping Wail
2 Pyrokinesis
Sideboard (15)
3 Pithing Needle
3 Blood Moon
3 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Grafdigger’s Cage
R1: Amadeus with Eldrazi (2-1)
[on the draw]
G1: Amadeus goes first with Thorn of Amethyst on T1. I drop a Mountain on my turn and pass back. My opponent plays Eye of Ugin and casts Thought-Knot Seer – I respond to the triggered ability by casting Pyrokinesis (pitching Stingscourger). He removes Goblin Piledriver, leaving me with only Aether Vial, Gempalm Incinerator and a few lands. On my turn I draw Krenko, cast Aether Vial and pass the turn. On the next turn I draw Lackey and use RIshadan Port in his upkeep. Amadeus drops Cavern of Souls and casts Endless One for X=3. At EOT I put Lackey into play with Vial. On my next turn I put Mogg War Marshal into play, cycle Gempalm Incinerator to destroy Endless One, attack with Lackey and put Krenko into play and the game is decided.
W
-2 Warping Wail, -2 Goblin Piledriver, +3 Blood Moon, +1 Tuktuk Scrapper
G2: I mull to 5 without any R manasource. Amadeus goes for Eldrazi Mimic on T1 and Reality Smasher on turn 3.
L
G3: In game 3 I lock him out with Rishadan Ports and Wasteland. Blood Moon was useless in this game as he had 5 Basic Wastes on the table. At some point I cast Ringleader, Piledriver and something else and let him have his 5 mana for the next turn. He uses this opportunity to cast Walker of the Wastes. Unfortunately Walker of the wastes dies to an attacking Piledriver + Gempalm Incinerator. The game is over on the next turn.
W
R2: Falk with bUrg Delver (aka 4c Delver) (2-1)
[on the draw]
G1: The first game is a real grindfest, where we deplete each other’s resources. It comes to a point where bioth of us are in topdeck mode, but Falk has Gurmag Angler attacking into chumpblockers. I lose the game when Falk resolves Painful Truths.
L
-2 Warping Wail, +2 Relic of Progenitus
G2: I open with Lackey, Falk plays Deathrite Shaman. I cast Relic of Progenitus on my turn 2 which he seems to dislike a lot. On my turn 3 I cast Chieftain, attack with both and connect into Ringleader. The game ends shortly thereafter.
W
G3: Falk Thoughtseizes me on T1 and discards Piledriver, seeing 2 Lackeys and Mogg War Marshal. Multiple Mogg War Marshals take over the game.
W
R3:André with bUrg Delver (aka 4c Delver) (2-0)
[on the play]
G1: I take one hit from his 4/5 Goyf before I can hide behide my Mogg War Marshals. At some point I cast Pyrokinesis for 3 damage on Goyf and 1 damage on Delver of Secrets, then cycle Gempalm Incinerator for 2 damage. From that point onwards it goes downhill for André.
W
-2 Warping Wail, +2 Relic of Progenitus
G2: The next game is a close one. I build up a boardposition with 2 Mogg War Marshal, but instead of chumping, I use the openings that his Goyf gives me to attack him. I am at 10 life when André casts Fire Covenant for 6 life. At this point I still hold a Ringleader in hand, so I can quickly recover – stall the board and eventually overwhelm him.
W
R4:Tobias with Miracles (0-2)
[on the play]
G1: Before the game starts I tell him that it’s about time for my loss against Miracles, just to keep the statistic just below the 90% winrate. I go first with Caverns, Lackey go (keeping Krenko, Vial and Gempalm and 2 lands in hand). On turn 2 Lackey connects into Krenko, I cast Vial and pass the turn. For the rest of the game I draw Chieftain and other than that only spells and lands. Entreat the Angels for 4 tokens was enough to beat that. During the game I tried to counter his Terminus with Warping Wail, but that just re-activated the otherwise dead Force of Will in his hand.
L
-2 Warping Wail, -2 Pyrokinesis, +1 Tuktuk Scrapper, +3 Pithing Needle
G2: We play the usual Goblin-vs.-Miracles game. At the relevant turn and @1 Life he finds Moat. At this point I have 3 Vials in play (@2,3 and 4 counter respectively) and a Matron in hand. I am about to concede, but instead I put Matron into play to search my library for a card that could still win me the game. I found Tuktuk Scrapper, but Tobias didn’t have an artifact in play, so instead I revealed another Matron and passed the turn. Now all I needed was an artifact that I could actually destroy. My opponent seemed to help me with my plan by casting Pithing Needle (naming Rishadan Port). At EOT I tapped Vial for Matron into Tuktuk Scrapper, then put Tuktuk Scrapper into play with Vial. Tobias responded by destroying his own Pithing Needle with Wear//Tear.
L
R5: Jona with Canadian Threshold (2-1)
[on the play]
G1: I don’t remember much from this game. I do remember though that Aether Vial sticks on turn 1 and MWM + Gempalm Incinerator take care of his Insectile Abberation. After that I don’t take any damage for the rest of the game, which speaks for the defensive potential of MWM.
W
-2 Warping Wail, +2 Relic of Progenitus
G2: I keep a hand with Lackey, Piledriver, Gempalm Incinerator and 4 lands. I draw another Piledriver and only lands for the rest of the game.
L
G3: The last game was quite intense. My turn 1 Vial sticks and my manadenial does some work. At some point Jona has 2 Nimble Mongoose, 2 Lands (Tropical Island + Volcanic, 6 cards un graveyard and is tapped out. I have 4 creatures in play (Ringleader, Lackey, Mogg War Marshal and a Goblin token) as well as 2 Mountains, 1 Wastelands and 1 Aether Vial (@4). 1 hold Skirk Prospector and Chieftain in my hand.
PUZZLE TIME: What would you do here?
W
Conclusions
* the best card on that day was Mogg War Marshal. The card is awesome against Delver decks. The biggest threat in their deck is whatever large creature they are playing (Tarmogoyf or Gurmag Angler) because we can’t trade 1:1 with these creatures so easily. Delver and Deathrite Shamen (and to some extent Nimble Mongoose) will draw your removal or die to blockers. Our best bet against these large creatures is thus buying time whith chumpblocks until we have gathered the resources we need to beat them (mana, mana, mana and creatures). MWM is a timewalk in the ace of Tarmogoyf and Angler, while its low manacosts make him castable even if your opponent attacks your manabase. In addition to that it activates Gempalm Incinerator really well, when you need to have 2 goblins on board (even taking their removal spells into account) to kill Insectile Aberration and DRS.
* second best card of the day was Goblin Chieftain. There were mor situation than I can clearly remember where it’s +/+ ability made the difference (Round 3, G2 is just one – pretty classic – example why I like him so much).
* just as last time, I got the feeling that the list had some pretty weak draws and was lacking gas. Maybe additional bombs, like Krenko, SGC or Kiki-Jiki can fix this.
* Rishadan Ports finally pulled weight by destroying Eldrazis basically on their own (this MU is exactly the reason why I am playing them in the first place). On the other hand, there were multiple situations where it’s drawback of not being a red manasource was relevant. I guess, as long as Eldrazi is around I need to stick to them. I will try to balance the number though – maybe 2 or 3 copies are enough.
* Warping Wail wasn’t performing well. Whenever I drew it it was either countered or it was irrelevant. Also I boarded it out in every game, and the only MU where I can imagine to not board it out is Infect. That’s too weak for a MD card.
* I am planning to make the following changes to the decklist:
MD: -2 Warping Wail, +1 MWM, +1 ??? (probably Tuktuk Scrapper) / -1 or 2 Rishadan Port +1 or 2 Mountain
SB: -1 ??? (probably Tuktuk Scrapper, +1 ???
Thank you for reading my report. Questions and comments are – as always – welcome.
Last edited by GoboLord; 04-12-2016 at 02:35 AM.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
So happy to see you going for the Ports :)Hello fellow Chieftains,
I played our monthly event yesterday and this is the short report.
Result: 4-1 after 5 rounds, 27 players
Changes to the decklist since my last event:
MD: -2 Blood Moon, + 2 Warping Wail (I boarded Blood Moon out every game and I still need to test Warping Wail)
SB: -1 Stingscourger, -1 Goblin Settler, -1 Relich of Progenitus, +2 Blood Moon, +1 Grafdigger’s Cage
MANA (23)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Snow-Covered Mountains
10 Mountain
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Ringleader
4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Mogg War Marshal
1 Stingscourger
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Warping Wail
2 Pyrokinesis
Sideboard (15)
3 Pithing Needle
3 Blood Moon
3 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Grafdigger’s Cage
R1: Amadeus with Eldrazi (2-1)
[on the draw]
G1: Amadeus goes first with Thorn of Amethyst on T1. I drop a Mountain on my turn and pass back. My opponent plays Eye of Ugin and casts Thought-Knot Seer – I respond to the triggered ability by casting Pyrokinesis (pitching Stingscourger). He removes Goblin Piledriver, leaving me with only Aether Vial, Gempalm Incinerator and a few lands. On my turn I draw Krenko, cast Aether Vial and pass the turn. On the next turn I draw Lackey and use RIshadan Port in his upkeep. Amadeus drops Cavern of Souls and casts Endless One for X=3. At EOT I put Lackey into play with Vial. On my next turn I put Mogg War Marshal into play, cycle Gempalm Incinerator to destroy Endless One, attack with Lackey and put Krenko into play and the game is decided.
W
-2 Warping Wail, -2 Goblin Piledriver, +3 Blood Moon, +1 Tuktuk Scrapper
G2: I mull to 5 without any R manasource. Amadeus goes for Eldrazi Mimic on T1 and Reality Smasher on turn 3.
L
G3: In game 3 I lock him out with Rishadan Ports and Wasteland. Blood Moon was useless in this game as he had 5 Basic Wastes on the table. At some point I cast Ringleader, Piledriver and something else and let him have his 5 mana for the next turn. He uses this opportunity to cast Walker of the Wastes. Unfortunately Walker of the wastes dies to an attacking Piledriver + Gempalm Incinerator. The game is over on the next turn.
W
R2: Falk with bUrg Delver (aka 4c Delver) (2-1)
[on the draw]
G1: The first game is a real grindfest, where we deplete each other’s resources. It comes to a point where bioth of us are in topdeck mode, but Falk has Gurmag Angler attacking into chumpblockers. I lose the game when Falk resolves Painful Truths.
L
-2 Warping Wail, +2 Relic of Progenitus
G2: I open with Lackey, Falk plays Deathrite Shaman. I cast Relic of Progenitus on my turn 2 which he seems to dislike a lot. On my turn 3 I cast Chieftain, attack with both and connect into Ringleader. The game ends shortly thereafter.
W
G3: Falk Thoughtseizes me on T1 and discards Piledriver, seeing 2 Lackeys and Mogg War Marshal. Multiple Mogg War Marshals take over the game.
W
R3:André with bUrg Delver (aka 4c Delver) (2-0)
[on the play]
G1: I take one hit from his 4/5 Goyf before I can hide behide my Mogg War Marshals. At some point I cast Pyrokinesis for 3 damage on Goyf and 1 damage on Delver of Secrets, then cycle Gempalm Incinerator for 2 damage. From that point onwards it goes downhill for André.
W
-2 Warping Wail, +2 Relic of Progenitus
G2: The next game is a close one. I build up a boardposition with 2 Mogg War Marshal, but instead of chumping, I use the openings that his Goyf gives me to attack him. I am at 10 life when André casts Fire Covenant for 6 life. At this point I still hold a Ringleader in hand, so I can quickly recover – stall the board and eventually overwhelm him.
W
R4:Tobias with Miracles (0-2)
[on the play]
G1: Before the game starts I tell him that it’s about time for my loss against Miracles, just to keep the statistic just below the 90% winrate. I go first with Caverns, Lackey go (keeping Krenko, Vial and Gempalm and 2 lands in hand). On turn 2 Lackey connects into Krenko, I cast Vial and pass the turn. For the rest of the game I draw Chieftain and other than that only spells and lands. Entreat the Angels for 4 tokens was enough to beat that. During the game I tried to counter his Terminus with Warping Wail, but that just re-activated the otherwise dead Force of Will in his hand.
L
-2 Warping Wail, -2 Pyrokinesis, +1 Tuktuk Scrapper, +3 Pithing Needle
G2: We play the usual Goblin-vs.-Miracles game. At the relevant turn and @1 Life he finds Moat. At this point I have 3 Vials in play (@2,3 and 4 counter respectively) and a Matron in hand. I am about to concede, but instead I put Matron into play to search my library for a card that could still win me the game. I found Tuktuk Scrapper, but Tobias didn’t have an artifact in play, so instead I revealed another Matron and passed the turn. Now all I needed was an artifact that I could actually destroy. My opponent seemed to help me with my plan by casting Pithing Needle (naming Rishadan Port). At EOT I tapped Vial for Matron into Tuktuk Scrapper, then put Tuktuk Scrapper into play with Vial. Tobias responded by destroying his own Pithing Needle with Wear//Tear.
L
R5: Jona with Canadian Threshold (2-1)
[on the play]
G1: I don’t remember much from this game. I do remember though that Aether Vial sticks on turn 1 and MWM + Gempalm Incinerator take care of his Insectile Abberation. After that I don’t take any damage for the rest of the game, which speaks for the defensive potential of MWM.
W
-2 Warping Wail, +2 Relic of Progenitus
G2: I keep a hand with Lackey, Piledriver, Gempalm Incinerator and 4 lands. I draw another Piledriver and only lands for the rest of the game.
L
G3: The last game was quite intense. My turn 1 Vial sticks and my manadenial does some work. At some point Jona has 2 Nimble Mongoose, 2 Lands (Tropical Island + Volcanic) and is tapped out. I have 4 creatures in play (Ringleader, Lackey, Mogg War Marshal and a Goblin token) as well as 2 Mountains, 1 Wastelands and 1 Aether Vial (@4).
PUZZLE TIME: What would you do here?
W
Conclusions
* the best card on that day was Mogg War Marshal. The card is awesome against Delver decks. The biggest threat in their deck is whatever large creature they are playing (Tarmogoyf or Gurmag Angler) because we can’t trade 1:1 with these creatures so easily. Delver and Deathrite Shamen (and to some extent Nimble Mongoose) will draw your removal or die to blockers. Our best bet against these large creatures is thus buying time whith chumpblocks until we have gathered the resources we need to beat them (mana, mana, mana and creatures). MWM is a timewalk in the ace of Tarmogoyf and Angler, while its low manacosts make him castable even if your opponent attacks your manabase. In addition to that it activates Gempalm Incinerator really well, when you need to have 2 goblins on board (even taking their removal spells into account) to kill Insectile Aberration and DRS.
* second best card of the day was Goblin Chieftain. There were mor situation than I can clearly remember where it’s +/+ ability made the difference (Round 3, G2 is just one – pretty classic – example why I like him so much).
* just as last time, I got the feeling that the list had some pretty weak draws and was lacking gas. Maybe additional bombs, like Krenko, SGC or Kiki-Jiki can fix this.
* Rishadan Ports finally pulled weight by destroying Eldrazis basically on their own (this MU is exactly the reason why I am playing them in the first place). On the other hand, there were multiple situations where it’s drawback of not being a red manasource was relevant. I guess, as long as Eldrazi is around I need to stick to them. I will try to balance the number though – maybe 2 or 3 copies are enough.
* Warping Wail wasn’t performing well. Whenever I drew it it was either countered or it was irrelevant. Also I boarded it out in every game, and the only MU where I can imagine to not board it out is Infect. That’s too weak for a MD card.
* I am planning to make the following changes to the decklist:
MD: -2 Warping Wail, +1 MWM, +1 ??? (probably Tuktuk Scrapper) / -1 or 2 Rishadan Port +1 or 2 Mountain
SB: -1 ??? (probably Tuktuk Scrapper, +1 ???
Thank you for reading my report. Questions and comments are – as always – welcome.
I didn't like Moon a lot vs Eldrazi either because it's too slow for their explosive starts. Do you think having more Krenkos could be a better idea?
I think Warping Wail has to be a Meta call.
Congrats on your finish!!!
Hey guys,
Yesterday I tested the Infect MU with my latest list (which Features Ports). OlafForkbeard and MattPruner gave me the impression that the MU would be better than I thought it was , given that Im running Ports and more than 5 removal spells.
Unfortunately, my testing results were slightly more negative than those I had with my Winstigator list - meaning that Im losing more games than I'm winning.
Now, thinking about some situations that came up during testing, I was was wondering if I played them right. Would you like to give me your input on how to manage the following scenarios?
Scenario 1:
My opponent keeps his 7 and goes first with tropical island + Glisterner Elf. On my turn 1 I open with Caverns + lackey. I have the following cards in hand when I pass the turn: Aether Vial, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Piledriver, Gempalm Incinerator (drawn this turn), Wasteland, Mountain. On his turn my opponent drops a fetchland and attacks.
What would you do?
Scenario 2:
I go first with Mountain + Goblin Lackey. On his turn 1 my opponent cracks a fetchland for Tropical Island, plays Noble hierarch and passes. On my turn 2 I draw a card and my hand looks like this: Goblin Piledriver, Mogg War Marshal, Goblin Matron, Pyrokinesis, Mountain, Rishadan Port. I attack with Lackey , he Blocks with Hierarch and plays Invigorate.
What would you do?
Scenario 3:
My Situation: Vial @2 and 1 Rishadan port in play as my only Land. Mogg War Marshal, Piledriver, Chieftain and Pyrokinesis in hand. No creatures in the board.
It's my opponents turn and he has noble hierarch, pendelhaven, tropical island d and inkmoth nexus in play + 4 cards in hand. He activates nexus out of tropical, pumps it with Pendelhaven and attacks. I have no infect counters before his attack.
What would you do?
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
This is interesting.
Scenario 1: I would not block and hope not to die. If he plays a blocker you can gempalm it t2 then drop piledriver as a blocker for his 2nd attack. If he doesn't, I'd try to kill the elf my t2.
Scenario 2: kinesis noble in response pitching mwm. Drop matron from the trigger getting a gempalm. Port him his t2.
Scenario 3: I'd take 3 infect. Kinesis only in response to pump removing mwm. Hit for 6 next turn and hope to race.
Those are not easy situations, and you could probably win or lose just depending on what he has on hand.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Scenario 1:
I'd take it. Playing scared, read: over conservative, does not lead to victory. You can't meaningfully interact if you lose the lackey if only because it's serving as Goblin Count.
Scenario 2:
I'd Pyrokinesis it. exiling Goblin Piledriver. This game plan enables you're Rishadan Port to be effective later and leaves Mogg War Marshal for Glistener Elves. That's 2/3 threats covered, with Matron backup. Play control in this match-up. They are far better at racing.
Scenario 3:
I'd take it. If he moves to kill you respond by exiling Piledriver for the same reason's as mentioned above. Otherwise kill it during one of your main phase's. This way you can comeback with a vengeance with Token's / Chieftain OR fall back on Port / chump plan.
Scenario 2 was the hardest one for me to come to a conclusion as to what to do. I think it's not that far away in EV to block, forcing them to use a pump spell, so your kill spells are better later.
If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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Scenario 1: If he's attacking he has pump spells OR he has another creature to play so he can still block/attack next turn. So you HAVE to block and get a 1:1 trade, even if it's just Lackey:Pump Spell. You can play Lackey+ Vial next turn anyway.
Scenario 2: Let Lackey die. Play a Piledriver T2, save Pyro and try to clear his board EOT2.
Scenario 3: Eat the attack. He's probably not killing you this turn, but if he tries to you can Pyro at that point since Inkmoth is 3/4. Basically, if you're dead this turn it doesn't matter what you do. If you waste your Pyro this turn and he just pumps in response you take the damage and don't kill the Nexus, so just wait a turn, let Port get online (if you draw a land) and save Pyro as your last line of defense. Put a clock on in the meanwhile.
I think i definitely block. If there is a trade, i am ok with that. if he uses a pump spell to save his guy, i am still ok with that. i would rather have him use the spells now than use them to get more poison in on me. it is extremely unlikely that he can kill thru a blocker on turn 2 (and if he does, whatever. sometimes that's just how infect rolls, and there is nothing that can be done by us). not blocking has the big plus of us being able to attack and connect with lackey the next turn and have an active gempalm, but i think in this matchup just sitting back and not taking risks is usually fine. and there is no guarantee that lackey will hit next turn, he could follow up with a second creature, and even with gempalm there is no guarantee that it will be able to make it thru.
if he does a defensive pump, you are left with no creature and he has an elf, that's fine, you have lots of ways to stall this creature from killing you. piledriver even beats the elf in combat forcing him to either have a berserk kill or use another pump spell to stay alive. I don't worry about racing with aggressive starts and lackey hits in this matchup at all. they are faster and always will be. I prefer sitting back and waiting it out, not dying. assembling a kill later is usually quite doable.
Let lackey die. i am always glad when they use pump spells defensively like this because it means they are not killing me with them. i would rather use pyrokinesis on a creature that actually kills me, and hierarch is almost never that creature. Next turn play out MWM, with pyrokinesis pitching lackey ready to go. Its possible he needed the mana from hierarch, but more likely he wanted 1 for 1 lackey/invigorate. and if he does miss his next land drop or stumble somehow, you have port to hold him down and a field of hierarch vs 2 goblin tokens (+whatever he does next turn, but you also have pyrokinesis) which is def. an ok situation to be in.
I take the three. Then EOT i would pyrokinesis. i cast my kill spells after damage a LOT in this matchup, and only shoot them off beforehand if i will die or have a very high poison count. he then he has to use a pump spell to keep it alive, and if he doesnt have one, thats even better. if you kill things while they attack you a pump spell (or a vines of vastwood vs something that directly kills) is such a blowout, and is a great window for them to get in even more poison. end of turn at least if they can save it you don't die.
hopefully that made sense. i'm tired and rambling.
I totally agree, i would do the same choices as you did.
Hello guys.
I've been away for a very long time (too long, unfortunately). I had to stop playing Goblins, the small group that i usually play, prepared all their decks to beat me and my friend that plays burn (that's the problem, of small tournaments, and have a TEAM of 6 players in it). So to beat that, i had to start playing Rogue decks to Win games and have fun, and left my Goblins on the shelf, to play Zombardment ( Very fun deck), High Tide (Spiral Tide and Reset Tide), Zombie Loam Token deck (not that Good for a deck, but did the job), and now playing MILL (Terrible deck, but definitely EXCELLENT to see their faces when they lose
But now, in the next month there will be a big legacy tournament, and of course i'll play GOBLINS, since i won't have the problem of they knowing what i'm playing!
I'm preparing the deck, and after seeing the last good results of Goblins, i'm thinking in playing with this:
30 Creatures
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
3 Goblin Piledriver
1 Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
1 Stingscourger
4 Goblin Matron
1 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Goblin Ringleador
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Earwig Squad
7 Non-Creature
2 Tarfire
1 Warping Wail
4 Aether Vial
23 Lands
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Badland
1 Taiga
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain
15 Sideboard
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Blood Moon
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pyroblast
1 Thorn of Amethyst
What do you guys think?
I was thinking of placing 2 Mogg War Marshall main, but despite them being very good against ex. Goyf decks, since i'm planning of playing with 2 Krenko, maybe i'll leave them out.
Also, i'm not sure if i'll play with 4 or 3 Ports, because i have only 3.
I think that the deck is okay, but what do you think? and about sideboard? and what changes would you make?
I don't have a clue of what to expect, but i'm guessing: Miracles, Eldrazi, Ant, Elfs, Delver Decks (Bug, UR, ... every type of them), Burn, Infect and Lands, since these are the most common decks that i've been knowing of latest events near me.
Also, one of my biggest problems is sideboarding, i usually make a lot of poor choices when sideboarding. Could you give me hints of what to take out and place in against the match ups i'm expecting.
Thankx
DTB still needs to be updated for April, but here's what the meta looked like in March. What do you all think are the best cards for dealing with these top tier decks?
Miracle Control
Chalice of the Void does a better job of shutting down Miracles than any other card. Of course Earwig Squad is a house here too.
Eldrazi
My playtesting shows that you basically need to drag them into deep water. MWM is great here and Krenko just shuts them down.
Grixis Tempo/Delver (TCDecks: Grixis Pyromancer)
Again, Chalice is a bomb. Sharpshooter does work here too.
Ad Nauseam Tendrils
Chalice
U/G Infect (TCDecks: Berserk Stompy)
Chalice, Sharpshooter, removal
Shardless BUG (TCDecks: BUG Control)
Krenko
Elves!
Chalice, Pyrokinesis, Sharpshooter
Team America
Oh... Chalice?
So basically Chalice is great against everything and we should probably up the count. Maybe maindeck Chalice?
I've done builds with MB Chalice. It was really cool, but it does require Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, enablers to get it out turn 1. Also you want to run all 4 Cavern of Souls. I'm messing with my list a bit.
I'll post my list again soon after some testing.
"Gobble Gobble"
Pre-Tournament Match-up Analysis - 4/18/2016
SCG States IL (Legacy)
Before I go to every event that I wish to win I make a chart with match-up percentages, notes, and sideboard options for my build of the deck. I figured that instead of keeping this information to myself, perhaps you guys could use it.
My testing was done pretty much exclusively on this classic list:
Mainboard
4x Wasteland
4x Rishadan Port
4x Cavern of Souls
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Mountain
1x Taiga
1x Plateau
4x AEther Vial
4x Goblin Lackey
1x Skirk Prospector
4x Goblin Piledriver
3x Mogg War Marshal
1x Tin Street Hooligan
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Ringleader
1x Siege-Gang Commander
2x Tarfire
3x Gempalm Incinerator
1x Stingscourger
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
Sideboard
3x Pyrokinesis
3x Relic of Progenitus
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Containment Priest (C14)
2x Mindbreak Trap
1x Stingscourger
1x Tin Street Hooligan
The match-up's I tested were ones where I did not feel like my view of the match-up's had a discrepancy with this threads opening post, or ones where I felt I needed practice. All other data is previous experience with the format (I've been on Goblins for 4 years now).
I used Positives (+), Negatives (-), and Equal To (=) to represent my feelings towards a card or Match-up. A Question Mark (?) means little to no experience in the situation with a Slash (/) being null data. "Source" is the top post's opinion on the match-up if available, and "Self" is my opinion on the match-up. All decks below 2% were excluded from this list.
Match-up Analysis Overview
Percentage data found from www.mtgtop8.com on 4/18/2016 for Legacy, 2 Months
Deck % Source Self Pyrokinesis Stingscourger Tin Street Hooligan Miracles 12 + + = - - Eldrazi Aggro 11 + + + + + Grixis Delver 7 + + + - - Shardless BUG 6 = - + = + BUG Delver 4 = = + + - Show and Tell 4 + - - = - Storm 4 / - - - + Death and Taxes 3 + + + - + Infect 3 = + + = - Burn 3 / - + = = Stoneblade 3 / - + - + Lands 3 = - - + + Reanimator 3 - + - + - Elves 3 - = + = - Bant 2 / ? + - + UR Delver 2 / + + = - Merfolk 2 / + + - + RUG Delver 2 / + + = - Aggro Loam 2 / ? = + + Imperial Painter 2 / ? + - + Dredge 2 / + + + -
ConclusionsNote on Shardless BUG and BUG Delver numbers - MTGTop 8 didn't differentiate between Shardless and BUG Delver. I manually counted last 2 months of data for versions with Delver compared to versions without delver.
Total count of Bug Aggro / Midrange: 78
Count of decks without Delver: 48 (48/78*10% of meta) 6%
Count of decks with Delver: 30 (30/78*10% of meta) 4%
I'm, for the first time since 2012 happy about the deck's position in the meta again. We have positive match-ups against the top decks in the format, and spell based combo is at an all time low!
Pyrokinesis is very, very good right now. I'm going to move 2 to my main deck. That should up my percentages against Shardless BUG and BUG Delver and leave two open slots to deal with Show & Tell, and Storm.
I really like having access to 2 Tarfire and 2 Gempalm Incinerator and consider them core to the deck. I can move 1 Gempalm Incinerator out and 1 other card. Since Mogg War Marshal is good in the top match-up's that worry me and I'm not willing to not have a game 1 answer to Umezawa's Jitte in Tin Street Hooligan); I will probably be cutting Goblin Piledriver as the other card.
Mainboard
-1x Goblin Piledriver
-1x Gempalm Incinerator
+2x Pyrokinesis
These changes I'm not worried about, and just seem correct. I'll miss Goblin Piledriver against miracles, but that is our best match-up.
The sideboard has a couple of options. I can add 2 Chalice of the Void / Thorn of Amethyst or I can be narrow and hate on what I don't want to lose to specifically. Mindbreak Trap for spell based combo, and Stingscourger / Confusion in the Ranks for Show & Tell.
Sideboard
-2x Pyrokinesis
+2x Chalice of the Void
or
Sideboard
-2x Pyrokinesis
+1x Stingscourger / Containment Priest
+1x Mindbreak Trap
I actually like both of these routes a lot. The advantages to Chalice of the Void is theoretically shutting down several options your opponent's have all at once, but it comes down side of being able to be played around, at least comparatively to the other options which are sudden impact type of responses. I value the surprise effect very highly, as it often lets them make a sub-optimal decision because they don't have perfect information. I will do further testing in the coming week.
Thanks for reading, feedback is welcome.
Last edited by Olaf Forkbeard; 09-21-2016 at 05:30 PM.
If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
Legacy Goblins Records
Our Discord
Wow.
Very good posting - very much appreciated, thank you!
Some feedback on the content.
First of all, I want to say that I prepare my lists for tournaments in a very structured way myself (listing DTBs, weigh the cards that are good/bad in these MU, make counts of cards that I can board out in these MU, eveluating my performance agains these MU etc...). Never actually considered to share that kind of information, since it seemed too detailed - but hey, if people are interested as much as I am interested in your write-up, then I'm happy to share that stuff as well.
Second, the OP does have information on the "Storm" MU - and I agree with you: it's negative.
Third, in response to ScatmanX summarizing the changes to the DTB section this morning, I wrote this:
I share your views on goblin's position in the current meta. In my oppinion goblins were in a good spot already last year at that time, but the meta now is even better with - as you said - a much smaller portion of spell-based combo decks.
Fourth, I totally agree with you on running exactly 2 copies of Pyrokinesis in the MD (see my last two tournament reports), but I don't think you should cut Mogg War Marshal. To me, MWM is one of the cards that make your life easy against Delver decks. I would cut Sharpshooter instead (which is way better in multiples anyways). Also, in some situations, Sharpshooter and Kinesis do the same job (each of them having their unique upside and downsides though).
Firth, a quoestion about your SB board: What is your view on Thalia vs. Ethersworn Canonist?
Last, I want to drop a couple of comments on your MU and card evaluations:
* I find that Stingscourger is a better card against S&T than Tin Street Hooligan is against Storm - you rated them = and + repsectively, my evaluation would be + and =. Why is that?
* I think your negative evaluation of the SHardless BUG MU has to do with your cardchoices. I'm running Chieftains over Warchiefs and Krenko over SGC - and I feel like these cards (Chieftain + Krenko) are among your strongest assets in this MU.
* I dont have as much experience fighting Sneak Show with a more classic list, but I can't imagine that it's negative. Your sideboard is lacking Pithing Needles though, which I find very strong in this MU, as it shuts down their only real wincondition (Sneak Attack). If you are taking OmniTell into account as well I can see this MU being negative with a classic list in hand
* agreed on: Burn, Stoneblade, UR Delver, Merfolk
* disagree on (my evaluation in parentheses): RUG Delver (=), Dredge (-)
Thank you again for your interesting post.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
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