Bertoncini, back in business.

[FTW]

If he wins enough this year, they should design a card after him:

2 Explores - 2G
Sorcery
Draw a card. You may play an additional land this turn.
You may cast any spells named "Explore" from your graveyard this turn without paying their mana costs.

[HammafistRoob]

They already did. Kiora, the Crashing Wave

[majikal]

Fun fact, if you rearrange the letters in Kiora, the Crashing Wave, you get "I know a cheater visage".

Also, I can attest to the Bertoncini nutshot stories, and I can also tell you it went on outside of Jupiter Games as well. I saw him get railed in the middle of a convention center hallway outside a GP and he just laughed it off like it was an everyday thing.

And regarding the statutory rape thing - THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. He showed up at a PTQ in Nashville shortly after one of the SCG opens and kept talking about going to Chuck E Cheese and picking up chicks. More than a little creepy:

[DragoFireheart]

And regarding the statutory rape thing - THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. He showed up at a PTQ in Nashville shortly after one of the SCG opens and kept talking about going to Chuck E Cheese and picking up chicks. More than a little creepy:

Geez, can it get any worse for this guy?

Lemme guess, he uses prize money to fuel his meth lab?

[GoboLord]

Geez, can it get any worse for this guy?

Lemme guess, he uses prize money to fuel his meth lab?

Or does he use his drug-money to sponsor StarCityGames' world domination plans? Over here in Europe he would be either top-manager of Bayern Munich (a German football club) or Italy's president. We just love bad boys.

[Raystar]

Or does he use his drug-money to sponsor StarCityGames' world domination plans? Over here in Europe he would be either top-manager of a football club or Italy's president. We just love bad boys.

Not a nice joke mate...

[Alfy]

Not a nice joke mate...

Seriously? Out of all the weird, creepy stuff in this thread, THAT bothers you?

[Raystar]

Seriously? Out of all the weird, creepy stuff in this thread, THAT bothers you?

Yes, it does. When nationalities, gender or belief are made fun of, it does.

[gregtron]

Yes, it does. When nationalities, gender or belief are made fun of, it does.

Seems like he made fun of a football club and a politician. What's wrong with that?

Not provoking you, generally curious.

[Raystar]

Seems like he made fun of a football club and a politician. What's wrong with that?

Not provoking you, generally curious.

I believe that he is characterizing Italy in a way that demonstrates some form of misconception/bias...do you think he would be ok if I said something on the past of german people?

[Esper3k]

I believe that he is characterizing Italy in a way that demonstrates some form of misconception/bias...do you think he would be ok if I said something on the past of german people?

If you did it as a joke, probably.

I mean, he did make fun of a German football club's top manager too.

[Raystar]

If you did it as a joke, probably.

I mean, he did make fun of a German football club's top manager too.

Being german he can have fun of germans as he wants....regarding italians we already have enough shame by ourselves without needing any help in pointing out how idiotic we are.

[GoboLord]

I believe that he is characterizing Italy in a way that demonstrates some form of misconception/bias...do you think he would be ok if I said something on the past of german people?

I, personally, think it would be absolutely appropriate. Germans have a historcial obligation to humor. Humor is the most mature form of acceptance.

Besides, this is not about "you Italians, - us Germans". I wrote "Us Europeans", so I had no intentions to insult you, (or anyone) personally.
I admit that our form of communication can cause such misunderstandings, which is why I want to apologize to for the troubles I caused.

[Richard Cheese]

I believe that he is characterizing Italy in a way that demonstrates some form of misconception/bias...do you think he would be ok if I said something on the past of german people?

Have you even seen this guy?!?!


It's the same as people giving Americans shit for keeping "Dubya" in office for 8 years, we deserve every bit of it! Just in case you think it's not fair to generalize about a voting populace based on their democratically elected officials, I'll leave you with this little nugget from the great George Carlin:

"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope.'"

Garbage in, garbage out.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Seriously? Out of all the weird, creepy stuff in this thread, THAT bothers you?

Hahahah! +1

Yes, it does. When nationalities, gender or belief are made fun of, it does.

This is a fair statement! But for the sake of fairness, re-read what was written. The butt of the joke is a very specific person, not a nation full of people.
I wonder if Berlusconi got whacked in the nuts growing up... Bunga bunga!

[Megadeus]

That George Carlin quote is gold

[danyul]

Not to derail the thread with this "offended" talk, but I've seen this happen before with I think an autistic joke and a Sourcer who was autistic or had an autistic friend .

Clearly, Raystar is Italian and was offended by a joke aimed, however vaguely, at Italians. Some people have made gay jokes. Some people have made autistic jokes. There are rape jokes in people's signatures. Jokes have occurred at somebody's expense. That is usually the nature of jokes.

However, when you are offended by a joke that is aimed at you (every joke is aimed at something) and you take offense to that joke but not to any other joke aimed at some other group, then you are, by your silence towards the joke aimed at others, admitting that you see yourself as better than that group. If you're going to be offended by Italian jokes, then you should be just as offended by jokes about autism or rape or whatever. You should be just as upset by any joke that carries violence or negative feelings about a group. When you tolerate those jokes, but get all up in arms about a joke (that wasn't even super offensive) towards your group, then you are tacitly agreeing to the kind of tribalism, cultural jingoism, and prejudice that makes so much of the world super ultra gross.

As a minority living in America, I have plenty of opportunities to get offended at things. But if I'm honest with myself, it's not hard to remember all the times I've laughed at another group's expense, only to aggressively rebuke minor jokes made about my subgroup. And that is not fair. When I have been offended by a joke, I was bringing my unique history and background and applying that to the joke and that often pushes it out of context and into the vast territory of Offensive Content. If I instead take the joke for what it is, and ignore my unique history, then jokes can shine for what they are. Or I can dismiss them as karmic justice for all the times I have laughed at jokes aimed at other groups. Once you can allow yourself that freedom, that disconnect from always being offended by very particular things, then you will likely find yourself feeling much more at ease with the world and the people in it.

Imagine a world in which we could never make jokes about any group. You never know the history of the person who hears or reads your joke. So there are an infinite number of possible backstories and experiences being applied to your one joke, all the time. Let's say I make a joke about a shark biting my foot, and that's why I don't like swimming. Well, this is unlikely, but what if somebody's mother was eaten by a shark and now they are offended? They might legitimately be offended, but that doesn't mean they are right nor does it mean I should start apologizing for my shark joke. How could I have known that a shark-attack victim would read/hear/see my words? You can control what offends you. I, as a joke teller, cannot control all the myriad ways in which people could possibly be offended at my joke. If we had to take all of those possible experiences into account, then nobody would be able to make a joke about anything. Ever.

I don't mean to single anybody out either. This can apply to anybody. And I try to apply it to myself as well. Actively remembering not to be offended by stuff is a daily task for me. But I've gotten better at it and, you know what, it feels good to let that stuff go. That's one less stupid thing to worry about in a world full of things asking me to worry about them.

That said, there are still things that are really taboo and which will offend 99% of people. And common sense still applies. But it can be impossible to know where to draw the line until we toe it and perhaps cross it. And that is a learning experience for both sides of the joke. Offensive humor has an audience. And guess what, we are on the internet - the largest audience around for offensive humor. Rather than jump at the chance to be offended by something, we should all just take a minute, check our inner prejudices, and try to chill out and let a joke slide once in awhile.

[Raystar]

Not to derail the thread with this "offended" talk, but I've seen this happen before with I think an autistic joke and a Sourcer who was autistic or had an autistic friend .

Clearly, Raystar is Italian and was offended by a joke aimed, however vaguely, at Italians. Some people have made gay jokes. Some people have made autistic jokes. There are rape jokes in people's signatures. Jokes have occurred at somebody's expense. That is usually the nature of jokes.

However, when you are offended by a joke that is aimed at you (every joke is aimed at something) and you take offense to that joke but not to any other joke aimed at some other group, then you are, by your silence towards the joke aimed at others, admitting that you see yourself as better than that group. If you're going to be offended by Italian jokes, then you should be just as offended by jokes about autism or rape or whatever. You should be just as upset by any joke that carries violence or negative feelings about a group. When you tolerate those jokes, but get all up in arms about a joke (that wasn't even super offensive) towards your group, then you are tacitly agreeing to the kind of tribalism, cultural jingoism, and prejudice that makes so much of the world super ultra gross.

As a minority living in America, I have plenty of opportunities to get offended at things. But if I'm honest with myself, it's not hard to remember all the times I've laughed at another group's expense, only to aggressively rebuke minor jokes made about my subgroup. And that is not fair. When I have been offended by a joke, I was bringing my unique history and background and applying that to the joke and that often pushes it out of context and into the vast territory of Offensive Content. If I instead take the joke for what it is, and ignore my unique history, then jokes can shine for what they are. Or I can dismiss them as karmic justice for all the times I have laughed at jokes aimed at other groups. Once you can allow yourself that freedom, that disconnect from always being offended by very particular things, then you will likely find yourself feeling much more at ease with the world and the people in it.

Imagine a world in which we could never make jokes about any group. You never know the history of the person who hears or reads your joke. So there are an infinite number of possible backstories and experiences being applied to your one joke, all the time. Let's say I make a joke about a shark biting my foot, and that's why I don't like swimming. Well, this is unlikely, but what if somebody's mother was eaten by a shark and now they are offended? They might legitimately be offended, but that doesn't mean they are right nor does it mean I should start apologizing for my shark joke. How could I have known that a shark-attack victim would read/hear/see my words? You can control what offends you. I, as a joke teller, cannot control all the myriad ways in which people could possibly be offended at my joke. If we had to take all of those possible experiences into account, then nobody would be able to make a joke about anything. Ever.

I don't mean to single anybody out either. This can apply to anybody. And I try to apply it to myself as well. Actively remembering not to be offended by stuff is a daily task for me. But I've gotten better at it and, you know what, it feels good to let that stuff go. That's one less stupid thing to worry about in a world full of things asking me to worry about them.

That said, there are still things that are really taboo and which will offend 99% of people. And common sense still applies. But it can be impossible to know where to draw the line until we toe it and perhaps cross it. And that is a learning experience for both sides of the joke. Offensive humor has an audience. And guess what, we are on the internet - the largest audience around for offensive humor. Rather than jump at the chance to be offended by something, we should all just take a minute, check our inner prejudices, and try to chill out and let a joke slide once in awhile.

I understand what you are saying and I agree almost entirely. The reason I jumped at the joke is not because I'm offended by it: to me and other Italians the last 20 years have been a form of dictatorial regime built upon financial control and information manipulation. The damage that has been done will fall on the head of my children (I have three kids) and short of leaving the country there is not much I can do to help them. I'm not offended, I'm very very worried that the guy in the picture above deprived my family and the families of fellow citizens of the opportunities that people in other countries are having.

I'm also not "blaming the politician", even if I have never voted for the political party that took us where we are I'm well aware that political representation is the result of the culture and beliefs of a country. The fact is I have to suffer every day for mistakes that have been done beyond my control and that will echo for many years to come.

I felt ashamed when France and Germany prime ministers joked about the leadership of my country, ashamed, not offended.

I'm sorry if I derailed the thread, it is just a bad day and I couldn't stand the salt in the open wound.

[DragoFireheart]

No jokes offend me because I realize everyone is an asshole on some level. lrn2growthickskin

[danyul]

I understand what you are saying and I agree almost entirely. The reason I jumped at the joke is not because I'm offended by it: to me and other Italians the last 20 years have been a form of dictatorial regime built upon financial control and information manipulation. The damage that has been done will fall on the head of my children (I have three kids) and short of leaving the country there is not much I can do to help them. I'm not offended, I'm very very worried that the guy in the picture above deprived my family and the families of fellow citizens of the opportunities that people in other countries are having.

I'm also not "blaming the politician", even if I have never voted for the political party that took us where we are I'm well aware that political representation is the result of the culture and beliefs of a country. The fact is I have to suffer every day for mistakes that have been done beyond my control and that will echo for many years to come.

I felt ashamed when France and Germany prime ministers joked about the leadership of my country, ashamed, not offended.

I'm sorry if I derailed the thread, it is just a bad day and I couldn't stand the salt in the open wound.

How peculiar. This exchange is more real than the ones I have with my coworkers on a daily basis (I should probably be working right now).

I see where you are coming from. And your position is a difficult one. We all spend a lot of time and money on this hobby and it is easy to forget that the world is a volatile, disruptive place containing more misery than happiness. These forums are a gleaming bastion of Azorious ideals meant to distract us from all the Golgari and Gruul happening outside its walls. However, you did bring your unique experiences to a joke/comment that was never intended to pick at your particular injustice. You say yourself that you were having a bad day. And that paired with your unique experiences perhaps made the comment more inflammatory than it was meant to be.

Gobolord has apologized. And now that we know your story, it is understandable why you felt compelled to make your comment. It might not mean much, but I hope that things workout for you and that the political turmoil in your country finds a resolution.

I think everybody is cool now. And this thread may continue talking shit about Alex "Voldemort" Bertoncheaty, the most diabolical mage of our time.