All B/R update speculation.

[Admiral_Arzar]

If we count tier two deck, Legacy has Burn, Affinity, and Merfolk - all linear aggro - and has Modern beat hands-down.

Looking at tier one Modern decks, I see three aggro decks, one control deck, one midranged deck and two variations of the same combo. I stand by what I said.

I used MTGSalvation's ranking of Modern's "Tiers" in that Tier 1 and 2 are both competitive and seeing significant metagame penetration. In that definition, neither Burn nor Affinity is remotely close to a "Tier" Legacy deck. Merfolk I'm not sure, I personally think the deck is pretty good but I'm not sure it has the metagame numbers to matter. Honestly, I'm not sure why you continue to make arguments using Modern when it's obvious you know little about the format, and have even stated that you know little about the format. I would recommend quitting while you're ahead (or behind, as it may be).

[Dice_Box]

Are you seriously suggesting Painter was developed to fight blue decks?

I am suggesting a good part of the reason a deck that runs 6 maindeck cards that are "Dead" if you are not playing Blue is a point of data that's a touch hard to wish away.

Jund, Blood Moon is a card.
Imperial Recruiter, Blue has Transmute Artifact, Trinket Mage and other ways to get the cards in play. They also don't need to run playsets of Stone or Painter because they can dig. The deck in Blue has more options, more widely useful counters and still sees near on no play. It's red for a good reason.

Also, sometimes the deck is run without Recruiter. I think that's a flaw, but not everyone can afford them.

[Lord Seth]

Infect, amulet, affinity and reanimator can kill on turn 2. They just aren't that consistent on doig that. To be fair I think modern is dominated by twin and its variations. The meta basically just rotate around it. If you can't deal with twin you're out.

I disagree with this. Sure, Twin is a big deck, but so is Omni-Tell in Legacy, and Lands is able to be good despite being so bad against it. For example, Affinity and GR Tron are reasonably big decks that have issues dealing with Twin.

Though I suppose it is true that there are a lot of decks that can't deal with Twin that are out. The thing is, those decks tend to be decks that can't deal with things in general. For a Legacy analogy, a deck like Zoo isn't out because it can't beat Omni-Tell, it's out because it can't beat much of anything right now.

With this said, I think comparing the formats is stupid, they are clearly two different things.

I'm just responding to the claim that Legacy has so many more play styles available because aggro hasn't been a thing in Legacy for quite a while. People often attack Modern for lack of control (fair argument, though there are still some control decks), but if we're going to complain about general lack of a notable archetype you have to admit the same fault for Legacy's lack of aggro.

Spell based =/= combo, any more than creature based = aggro (aka, Elves, Dredge).

My point is that Burn is a deck that casts what's functionally the same spell 7 times and then wins. You can't really "block" things like Lightning Bolt and Price of Progress. Burn does run a few creatures, but they function more like Burn spells that happen to have legs (Eidolon of the Great Revel certainly isn't played because a 2/2 without haste for RR is such a great attacker, but because it can hit the opponent in the face for a lot of damage from its ability).

Let me put it this way. While it's much worse than Burn, UB Mill (we're talking straight, all-in mill, i.e. Archive Trap and Glimpse the Unthinkable) follows the same basic strategy as Burn, it just attacks the number of cards in the library instead of life. Do you think that deck is aggro?

But more pertinently, even if we want to count Burn as aggro, it doesn't really do much in Legacy. The best "aggro" deck in the format doesn't rely much on creatures at all and doesn't put up that many results. Trying to point to Burn as some example that aggro is viable in Legacy seems rather weak.

If we count tier two deck, Legacy has Burn, Affinity, and Merfolk - all linear aggro - and has Modern beat hands-down.

If you're going to count decks that barely post any results at all, then sure (seriously, Affinity?). But in that case you'll have to count things like UW Tron, 8Rack, Blue Moon, and the various UWx Control decks (UW, UWR, Esper) as Modern control decks, some of which have done quite a bit better for themselves than the decks you're citing, so you're not beating anything "hands down."

Looking at tier one Modern decks, I see three aggro decks, one control deck, one midranged deck and two variations of the same combo. I stand by what I said.

Stand by what, exactly? Because that seems some reasonable diversity. Sure, a slant towards aggro, but the archetypes are represented (if one counts Grixis Control as control, at least). It's not like the Tier 1 Legacy decks seem that much better (there's certainly no aggro), though to properly compare them we'd need to settle a definite way of determining being Tier 1 and then apply them to both formats, whereas the methodology used to determine Tier 1 for Modern on MTG Salvation is different from what's used to determine Tier 1 on The Source. Not to mention that Tier 1 decks are never the full face of the format, you need to include the viable decks beneath them.

Though I would note that if you compare the recent SCG Modern and Legacy Opens, while the Modern open did manage to have, in its top 32, all of the archetypes you mentioned (aggro, combo, prison, control, tempo, and midrange), Legacy was noticeably absent aggro (unless you count Infect, which I don't).

[Bed Decks Palyer]

It's interesting how the discusion is about the different archetypes and whatnot, while it's pretty clear to anyone who saw the Legacy metagame at least from Sputnik that the main difference between the archetypes is based on the usage of either:
- blue ca... sry, cantrip cart... sorry, I meant Brainstrom and Ponder (followed by any or all of of Preordain Gitaxian Probe Dig Through Time Force of Will)
- other engine (Elves and their cards) or card selection tools.

The difference between say Delver decks is much less important (in their core those decks are still the same disgusting piles of crappy-manabase-undercosted-beaters held together by BS), while the differencies between the Modern decks exist on a strategic level. This leaves the DnB section with only a handful of decks, most of them playing the same.
The reason for this isn't in 75% saturation by BS, as that saturation is only a "symptom" of the card's strength; BS is played for what it does, not the other way around, it doesn't do what it does because it's played.

Any other such card would be banned long ago. It's funny that cards like Black Vise or Frantic Search or Earthcraft are banned, while BS is roaming free. Clearly WotC decided that BS is what makes the Legacy's identity; well, so be it. I'd rather be if they decided otherwise as the disgusting Legacy metagame is unbearable. Thankfully there are other formats to satisfy my craving and there's always MWS if I find myself in need of some cantrip action once per month, so w/e. But it still makes me sad. Well no, not sad, annoyed.

[Noctalor]

My 0.02

First of all, for most legacy players, brainstorm and the cantrips are the reason they like the game, i mean, every single time i get to play some modern i rage so hard i wanna send ISIS at Wizard HQ, one of the main reasons is for sure the lack of any deck manipulation (cmon, serum visions is a joke), you are forced into nutella-kid combos i simply refuse to play or into 24 lands 36 bombs decklist, also pretty much every single control deck need to play at least 7/8 burn spells (+ 4 snapcasters) because sooner or later they have to hurry the fk up or die flooded, my body is not ready to play a control deck and have a chance to open a goddam 3 land 4 burn spells hand i suppose.

So im stuck with Doubling Season turbo plainswalker, the deck is not even close to a tier1 status but who cares, i find the modern playstile obnoxious and i just want to have fun.
Sure i still have to deal with the massive amount of bs that modern never stops to provide, but hey i want to play a non-12 spot remouval control so i just play it.

This should be the same for legacy, the way legacy work is simple, you have a cantrip shell or a massive threat shell, the cantrip shell give you flexibility and has a lot of potential while the threath shell provide insane raw power at the cost of a more streamlined deck, you also get to play some in between the two, like TES for example.

This ofc include a good amount of gameplans you can execute and that should be the important factor.
For example right now im on Grixis Control, and my deck is pretty close to a Grixis Delver list, we share Brainstorm, Ponder, FoW, Cabal Therapy, Young Pyromancer, Bolt, DTT and the manabase but the decks are on a WAY different gameplan, for example i find Grixis Delver and Grixis Control "more different" than Jund and Junk in modern, because while the grixis play "the same" decklist they have a different gameplan, the modern BGx just play different threats and remouvals but they pretty much share the gameplan.
Also in legacy aggro exist, but the important factor is that aggro in a pure form can no longer work, is like vintage, you can play aggro but you need some form of interaction against combo because you cant just outrace it.
For example goblin right now has a really good MU against most of the "cantrip demons", the main issue is just the lack of interaction against combo.
Still if you want to play every single archetipe you get to play one at the tier level in legacy, for example
Control -> Miracles/Grixis Control
Aggro -> Death&Taxes/Merfolks/Burn
Combo -> Storm/Reanimator
Prison -> Lands
2 Card Combo -> Omnitell
Aggro-Control -> Delver/Stoneforge/Mentor Miracle
Aggro-Combo -> Infect/Elves
Aggro Prison -> Aggro Loam
Control-Combo -> Omnitell in a way/Thopters
Prison-Combo -> Painter
Ofc those decks are not all at the same power level atm, but pretty much all of them have a good shot to top8 even a GP.


If you dont really like how legacy work (so for example you want to play some low threat/non blue/no good combo interaction shell like a non-taxes maverik) well you can play it and have fun or just quit the format, is that simple.
If your problem is with blue cards (wtf? but hey, i guess you dont like the color and you dont like the sea) you still get to play a bunch of tier1, you dont like the blue decks and the non blue decks because they have to be "anti blue" just quit the format or deal with it.
If you dont like deck manipulation you get to play none in modern, please let us have fun with our broken as hell toy

[CabalTherapy]

My 0.02

First of all, for most legacy players, brainstorm and the cantrips are the reason they like the game, i mean, every single time i get to play some modern i rage so hard i wanna send ISIS at Wizard HQ, one of the main reasons is for sure the lack of any deck manipulation (cmon, serum visions is a joke), you are forced into nutella-kid combos i simply refuse to play or into 24 lands 36 bombs decklist, also pretty much every single control deck need to play at least 7/8 burn spells (+ 4 snapcasters) because sooner or later they have to hurry the fk up or die flooded, my body is not ready to play a control deck and have a chance to open a goddam 3 land 4 burn spells hand i suppose.

So im stuck with Doubling Season turbo plainswalker, the deck is not even close to a tier1 status but who cares, i find the modern playstile obnoxious and i just want to have fun.
Sure i still have to deal with the massive amount of bs that modern never stops to provide, but hey i want to play a non-12 spot remouval control so i just play it.

This should be the same for legacy, the way legacy work is simple, you have a cantrip shell or a massive threat shell, the cantrip shell give you flexibility and has a lot of potential while the threath shell provide insane raw power at the cost of a more streamlined deck, you also get to play some in between the two, like TES for example.

This ofc include a good amount of gameplans you can execute and that should be the important factor.
For example right now im on Grixis Control, and my deck is pretty close to a Grixis Delver list, we share Brainstorm, Ponder, FoW, Cabal Therapy, Young Pyromancer, Bolt, DTT and the manabase but the decks are on a WAY different gameplan, for example i find Grixis Delver and Grixis Control "more different" than Jund and Junk in modern, because while the grixis play "the same" decklist they have a different gameplan, the modern BGx just play different threats and remouvals but they pretty much share the gameplan.
Also in legacy aggro exist, but the important factor is that aggro in a pure form can no longer work, is like vintage, you can play aggro but you need some form of interaction against combo because you cant just outrace it.
For example goblin right now has a really good MU against most of the "cantrip demons", the main issue is just the lack of interaction against combo.
Still if you want to play every single archetipe you get to play one at the tier level in legacy, for example
Control -> Miracles/Grixis Control
Aggro -> Death&Taxes/Merfolks/Burn
Combo -> Storm/Reanimator
Prison -> Lands
2 Card Combo -> Omnitell
Aggro-Control -> Delver/Stoneforge/Mentor Miracle
Aggro-Combo -> Infect/Elves
Aggro Prison -> Aggro Loam
Control-Combo -> Omnitell in a way/Thopters
Prison-Combo -> Painter
Ofc those decks are not all at the same power level atm, but pretty much all of them have a good shot to top8 even a GP.


If you dont really like how legacy work (so for example you want to play some low threat/non blue/no good combo interaction shell like a non-taxes maverik) well you can play it and have fun or just quit the format, is that simple.
If your problem is with blue cards (wtf? but hey, i guess you dont like the color and you dont like the sea) you still get to play a bunch of tier1, you dont like the blue decks and the non blue decks because they have to be "anti blue" just quit the format or deal with it.
If you dont like deck manipulation you get to play none in modern, please let us have fun with our broken as hell toy

Thank you.
Solid post, sir.

[Ace/Homebrew]

So im stuck with Doubling Season turbo plainswalker, the deck is not even close to a tier1 status but who cares, i find the modern playstile obnoxious and i just want to have fun.

Holy shit! This is a thing?
Can you post your list in the Modern section?

[Noctalor]

Holy shit! This is a thing?
Can you post your list in the Modern section?

I deliver

[Blastoderm]

Cantrips are OK imo... The problem is what they find. Show and Tell or Delver are quite dumb. Back in the day, Show and Tell would cheat in stuff like Akroma, Verdant Force, *random sea monster*. It's the fault of power creep... Show and Tell is a card I used to find really cool but it became dumb when Eldrazi and Griselbrand were printed. In my opinion if you ban Show and Tell and Delver, the format would be in a better place. But this also poses an issue. The whole argument behind the banning of Survival was that it would just keep getting more and more busted with power creep over time. Shouldn't the same argument apply to show and tell?

[Michael Keller]

But isn't it that predictable ubiquity that dooms said archetypes against opponents who metagame properly for them? Those archetypes are far from unbeatable.

Brainstorm is just caught in the mix in a world where equally-powered (or near equally-powered) blue cards rule. That will never change, especially in a format where over twenty years' worth of cards are legal.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

First of all, for most legacy players, brainstorm and the cantrips are the reason they like the game...

Then I'm clearly not in line with the "most legacy players", similarly to how other roughly a half of the visitors of this thread seem to be.

What I liked about Legacy was that it was a format where you might play the good old cards (meaning the powerful, often times discontinued and/or banned ones, cards with limited drawbacks, etc.; inb4 troll attempts: I'm definitely not writing about Fat Kid's Gray Ogre Deck), without the burden of obvious design mistakes and fixed deck core, turn2 and 2-turn wins, swingy-bomby plays, USD-3000 manabases and anything else that defines Vintage. If I'd wanted to play a format where there is a number of a must-play cards, where there are games decided by random bomb and where there are extremely powerful plays that end the game right now, I would never join the Legacy crowd (and I would never did all my best to expel the Vintage tournaments from our lgs). Legacy mirroring the Vintage (big blue decks vs. hate decks - be it bears or MUD -, then we got insane prices and insane plays, etc.) is not what I was looking for.

The more Legacy turned into Vintage lite, the less I like it. I view power creep and cantrip cartel as the main culprits of how Legacy looks like in past few years, and if the price for not seeing another Delver or another Terminus or another abominable Ponder-into-win-now-SnT is to not play, then I'm willing to pay that; in fact I haven't played a game of physical MtG in several months (since Treasure Cruis print to be more precise).

Power creep is an unsolvable issue, as it's a core "problem" of any game, TCG and Warcrack-alikes especially.
Cantrip brigade is solvable issue, yet WotC are more than clear in sending their message that reads "we want it like this".

This leaves very few maneuvering space for anyone not willing to play by this rules. It's either join us or leave us, with the "leave us" being anything from accepting a lesser chance to win (due to deliberate suboptimal deck/strategy) through exploitation of metagame's glaring holes (but not everybody finds Chalice-based decks entertaining) to a final solution (gtfo of game and/or Legacy community).

Personally, I can live my life without seeing another Delver, Show and Tell and Brainstorm. I'd also prefer if they'd kill Jace, but from what I understand about promotion, they turned him into an iconic character of Mtg and will bother us to no end with him and his buddies. It's like soap opera mixed with Brezhnev's funeral.

[Zombie]

My solution was to pick up an arcade stick and start playing fighting games. Great fun, though the power creep often goes in the opposite direction and games can eventually turn into chores that way.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Then I'm clearly not in line with the "most legacy players", similarly to how other roughly a half of the visitors of this thread seem to be.

The more Legacy turned into Vintage lite, the less I like it. I view power creep and cantrip cartel as the main culprits of how Legacy looks like in past few years, and if the price for not seeing another Delver or another Terminus or another abominable Ponder-into-win-now-SnT is to not play, then I'm willing to pay that; in fact I haven't played a game of physical MtG in several months (since Treasure Cruis print to be more precise).

This leaves very few maneuvering space for anyone not willing to play by this rules. It's either join us or leave us, with the "leave us" being anything from accepting a lesser chance to win (due to deliberate suboptimal deck/strategy) through exploitation of metagame's glaring holes (but not everybody finds Chalice-based decks entertaining) to a final solution (gtfo of game and/or Legacy community).

I'm also not in line with "most Legacy players" as I still remember when the format was only 50% blue and a large chunk of that was Merfolk.

On your point about maneuvering space, I'm currently in a bind considering what I should play for the upcoming GP. My choices if I want to do well are basically a bunch of boring blue decks, or playing something that I enjoy playing but is suboptimal. So the question is, do I play something I hate for one (or two) entire days and win while hating myself the whole time, or do I play something entertaining and probably lose?

[Noctalor]

Then I'm clearly not in line with the "most legacy players", similarly to how other roughly a half of the visitors of this thread seem to be.

This is indeed a bitching thread, so i find pretty reasonable that most people here dont like blue cards, but hey, seems like 80% of the metagame is blue, and i dont really think that most players play a deck they hate just in order to have a better chance, so we may say that around the 65/70% of the legacy player enjoy blue cards

What I liked about Legacy was that it was a format where you might play the good old cards (meaning the powerful, often times discontinued and/or banned ones, cards with limited drawbacks, etc.; inb4 troll attempts: I'm definitely not writing about Fat Kid's Gray Ogre Deck),

Well Show middle finger and tell fu is a pretty old fashon card sadly.
But i agree, but man imho brainstorm is for sure one of the old fashon card.
Ofc is sad that most old creatures got pretty much power creeped out of the game, but at least we get to play some old spell.

without the burden of obvious design mistakes

Brainstorm is not a desing mistake, brainstorm into miracle/delver flip is, but hey imho miracle is a crappy mechanics that lead to randomness and delver is TOTAL bs.
Being able to play wood decks in a better shell is ok, i mean wood decks are still wood decks even with brainstorm, ofc is a bit sad that if you dont play brainstorm you are basicly playing a wooded pile of card but i see it the other way, thx to brainstorm we get to play actual magic, having a gameplan and being able to execute it avoiding the modern joke (like at least 50% of the games are an attrittion was PURELY based of topdeck RNG)

and fixed deck core, turn2 and 2-turn wins,

Blue shell is what keeps in check turn 2 combos, if you remove the reason to play blue i can ensure you will have to ban every single combo enabler, like modern

swingy-bomby plays,

good old cards (meaning the powerful, often times discontinued and/or banned ones, cards with limited drawbacks)
Also most of the single broken plays are done by the non blue part of the format (non considering any combo here) blue decks just responde to broken plays in a efficent manner

USD-3000 manabases

This sucks, no argue, but pretty sure is not brainstorm fault

and anything else that defines Vintage.

for sure you cant compare vintage power level to legacy's one, unless you go for the bertoncini gameplan there is a big difference between ancestral and brainstorm, also the vintage for me is defined by
1) Non linear mana progress -> is the only format that is fine with this, basicly no deck can go for a turn 1 5 drop while being a solid deck and having no drawback doing so
2) Insane bombs limited -> there is no comparison between vintage bombs and any other format for sure, cmon you campare brainstorm, ponder, preordain to ancestral, walk, necro, desire, workshop, bazaar
3) Only format that has a crazy enought entry fee to lead to proxy events and budget prizes (and well, now prices are crazy even in legacy but guess what, now a t1 deck cost around 12k at least)

If I'd wanted to play a format where there is a number of a must-play cards,

This is just wrong, there are must play card in every single format of magic the gathering, and pretty much in avery single cardgame, that's how it work, i see you point being that the must play cards should be more (for example back in the day we had the you play brainstorm or you play aether vial or you play zenith metagame, right now we have the you play brainstorm or you play chalice metagame) but hey, in card game some card are just better than others.
and in my opinion we should be happy that the main must play card in the format is actually a great card that helps various strategy, think about a metagame where a 1 mana deal 6 damage exist, you will be forced into rush decks or anti rush decks, this sucks, now you are just forced into manipulation and "you have a really good reason not to manupulate" metagame, far better

where there are games decided by random bomb

Way less random due to brainstorm and the cantrips, and this is why most love them and hate modern, in that format you actually get rekt by random bombs, like a liliana topdeck while you get you sweet forest, so cool!

and where there are extremely powerful plays that end the game right now,

I agree, power level is getting ridicolous atm, not much we can do about it, the good side is that most archetipes are getting something, is not like aggro control is obnoxious or control is too good or you cant beat combo, they are all insane comparet to lets say the pre delver metagame but they are all reasonable compared to each other

Legacy mirroring the Vintage (big blue decks vs. hate decks - be it bears or MUD -, then we got insane prices and insane plays, etc.) is not what I was looking for.

Well i may be a bit forcing this but from what i remember legacy always had as the best deck a blue one, blue was always more present than all non blue combined, right now is treu more than ever, i agree, but again who cares about blue vs non blue? i care about the decks, for example ANT and grixis control, both play 4 brainstorm 4 ponder and a bunch of preordain, but they go on a completely different route.

So in my opinion the people suffering the most are the black based player (jund/rock/eva/red death etc) and the green based player (basicly talking about maverik players) sure it sucks that a deck you like get the tier3 status
but hey it happens, i hate how the garbage omnitell made tide based basicly a kitchen table deck and so on too but shit happens

The more Legacy turned into Vintage lite, the less I like it. I view power creep and cantrip cartel as the main culprits of how Legacy looks like in past few years,

I would say that the main issue is just poor desing by wizard, sensei's, delver, retarded cards to show&tell into are just poor game desing at its finest, for sure is not brainstorm fault if they print a 1 mana 3/2 or a "hey you lucky, get a free 2x black lotus into an istant speed sorcery, what a miracle right?"
This game always had poor card desing, for me for example most of the lock card are crap if they are too good, i find dumb lose to a moon (note, even in modern, is not like "meh you want the greey manabase you get punished" is just blood moon being a dumb card that overpunishes decks) as i find dumb a turn 1 trini into golem in vintage

and if the price for not seeing another Delver or another Terminus or another abominable Ponder-into-win-now-SnT is to not play,

agree , but as i stated the problem are delver, miracle, and kiddo 20/20 cards, not ponder or brainstorm, you would not find ponder obnoxious if im just goin to ponder into a werebear, you find it toxic because i ponder into daze while you are at 10 hp turn 4 with only a land on the table.

then I'm willing to pay that; in fact I haven't played a game of physical MtG in several months (since Treasure Cruis print to be more precise).

That sucks, but hey, thanks to the cantrip cartel you get to have fun playing sick decks like the judge destroyer, doomsday, tide and so on

Power creep is an unsolvable issue, as it's a core "problem" of any game, TCG and Warcrack-alikes especially.

Indeed it is, there is basicly no way around it

Cantrip brigade is solvable issue, yet WotC are more than clear in sending their message that reads "we want it like this".

But is not the problem
Is not like your opponent goin for land ponder is unhealty for the game, what he is trying to do and the insanity of the tool he can get out of that ponder is the problem, again, we had brainstorm an ponder since 2007! no problem right?
then they go ham with the delver/miracle/eldrazi/omni thing and all of a sudden brainstorm is the problem?
You would laught at a omnitell deck playing the exact list with 4 progenitus instead of the omniscience, you would laught at a delver deck with no delver, still you would probably get smashed by a omnitell with no ponder and a delver based with no brainstorm.
as i said, poor game desing (most likely due to the absolute ZERO playtest they put into cards outside from limited and a bit of standard)

In the end i think that the entire "cantrip cartel thingy" is just overreacting and also pretty much missing the problem.

[Star|Scream]

I'm also not in line with "most Legacy players" as I still remember when the format was only 50% blue and a large chunk of that was Merfolk.

On your point about maneuvering space, I'm currently in a bind considering what I should play for the upcoming GP. My choices if I want to do well are basically a bunch of boring blue decks, or playing something that I enjoy playing but is suboptimal. So the question is, do I play something I hate for one (or two) entire days and win while hating myself the whole time, or do I play something entertaining and probably lose?

It's cliche, but have you guys thought about playing modern? I mean I'm not really sure why you guys have such an issue with the color of your cards. What type of decks do you think will be playable if they get rid of the "cantrip cartel?" I'm pretty sure those decks would closely mirror what's going on in modern right now. They ran some numbers and every color is represented at around 50% in tournament play. It seems to be exactly what you're all searching for.

[Blastoderm]

It's cliche, but have you guys thought about playing modern? I mean I'm not really sure why you guys have such an issue with the color of your cards. What type of decks do you think will be playable if they get rid of the "cantrip cartel?" I'm pretty sure those decks would closely mirror what's going on in modern right now. They ran some numbers and every color is represented at around 50% in tournament play. It seems to be exactly what you're all searching for.

I don't think it's a color issue. It's the fact that so many decks play 12 of the same cantrips.

[Barook]

First of all, for most legacy players, brainstorm and the cantrips are the reason they like the game

Really?

I yet have to hear anybody who wants to get into the format say: "I want to play Legacy because of Brainstorm/cantrips."

The appeal of Leagacy is the wide pool of old cards in general, not just fucking cantrips. Give me Mom, SFM, StP, Wasteland, Rishadan Port and Karakas in Modern and I would play the shit out of it.

And just because we have an absurd amount of players using Brainstorm doesn't necessarily mean they do so because they enjoy cantrips. When e.g. Julian23 switches from Elves to playing Miralces or Omnitell, it's certainly not because he learned to stop worrying and love the Brainstorm. It wins - and that matters - even if it's boring as hell.

[iatee]

"Go play modern" is about as helpful as "America, love it or leave it"

[MGB]

"Go play modern" is about as helpful as "America, love it or leave it"

#freedomfries

[iatee]

Really?

The appeal of Legaacy is the wide pool of old cards in general, not just fucking cantrips. Give me Mom, SFM, StP, Wasteland, Rishadan Port and Karakas in Modern and I would play the shit out of it.

Yep the cantrip-cartel ensures that the one of the biggest appeals of legacy - the huge card pool - ends up actually barely mattering as t1 legacy decks can only operate using a very limited card pool. Modern's playable card pool is probably deeper than legacy's because of this.